Melted CCS Pads? Thoughts?

lokerola

lokerola

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Hello fellow AG'ers. This weekend I finally got around to doing a full detail on my 2011 Dodge Charger R/T. Over the last 12 months it's gotten more than a few swirls. Here's why.

1.. It's black. Dear Lord I'll never buy another black car. Moving on.....
2. It sits outside 24x7. I have a nice driveway to work in. But no garage.
3. I commute in the DC Metro area, so I'm frequently driving through construction zones filled with dust and rocks, etc.
4. As a n00b in the detailing world last year I was over-committed to keep the car clean on a daily basis. I went overboard with trying to keep it clean with QD and microfiber wipe downs. I'm sure I put some of the swirls in there myself.
5. Did I mention it's black.

Anyway, on to the pads.

After a 2 bucket wash, clay, and tape, I began the detail from the top down.

I used a product I've never tried before Megs D151. It's advertised as an AIO with an ability to get out swirls and polish down nicely and protect all at the same time.

I used a CCS Orange pad and D151 on the roof and the trunk. Then I switched off to a new (as in brand new, never used) CCS orange pad and did the drivers side of the car.

I used a speed of 6 on my Griots Garage DA polisher during this whole process.

When I pulled off the second pad the center of the pad had melted away and bits of the melted Velcro were on the backing plate! See pics for the melted pads.

I thought maybe I just kept the pad on too long and tried a second new pad. After one panel - same thing. Melted pad. All in all I melted the center of three CCS orange pads.

Why did this happen? Was a speed of 6 just too much for the pads? The GG DA is a year old, but it's only been used over the course of three weekends since I bought it. Could a combo of the orange pads, D151, and GG DA at speed 6 cause some sort of heat build up?

Anyway, your thoughts are appreciated.

And to finish up the swirl removal story, D151 and the orange pads only got out about 75-80% of the swirls. Good for a daily driver, but I see a few swirls remaining on the hood and trunk I'll go back and hit with a dedicated swirl remover such as Wolfgangs TSW or Megs 105/205.

And despite the claim of protection from D151 by itself, I couldn't help breaking out old reliable - Collinite 845 for the final topping. Sorry, no pics of the car, but check out the pads!
 
Hmmm. I guess I missed that thread. Interesting that of the 2 pads that didn't melt, one of them was old. The new pad that didn't melt was only used it for about 5 minutes. The other pad was old, maybe 1+ years old and had been used previously to detail my truck and my wife's car.

This old CCS pad was the one I used for the longest time- doing the entire roof and trunk with it before switching to the second pad, which eventually melted. Maybe the manufacturing process changed in the time between I ordered the first pad and the other ones. Or it could be the heat just had not built up on the backing plate yet and not had a chance to melt the first pad.

:dunno:

imranhakro said:
It clearly shows the bad quality of LC CCS pads...
I wonder LC is still doing sales, despite of so much customer complaints.

Atleast i will never buy LC pads ever again in my life, after what i have experienced: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...c-ccs-pads-purchased-autogeek.html#post693830
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Will get a picture posted later, but I had a similar problem. Only mine was with a Lake County Backing plate and Mequiars MF pads. Melted the pad and backing plate together in the center...removal of the pad ended up tearing away the center velcro of the backing plate. I was only using speed 5 though. Griots 6"

I had to switch over to 4" pads at that point and was only half done, got lucky though, there isn't that much paint on an old crx :D.
 
TroyScherer said:
I am sorry to here this.


If you used the same pad for half the car it is very possible that you had product soaking into the pad creating undue heat. This will easily create the problem and cause the glue to let go. The only times I have had pads separate like this is when I used too much pressure to create overheating and had product soak through. On most cars I would plan on using no less than 4 pads.
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Based on your pictures it really appears as though you had generated to much heat causing this problem.
 
It does seem like a bit of a thread mix up. But maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet.

Thinking about how I loaded up my CCS pads with D151, I think I did it right. I loaded them the same way I did with WTSR and Megs 105/205 in the past. I primed the pads with D151 and put a small circle of product on before doing a section. Same method taught by Mike. Same method I've used in the past without problem. And I did use 4 pads for the whole car (5th pad was only used briefly).

Anyway - interesting to hear others have seen similar issues.

TroyScherer said:
Based on your pictures it really appears as though you had generated to much heat causing this problem.
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imranhakro said:
I didn't upload my pics yet dude. may be you are mixing 2 threads.
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Thanks crxman. Was that the only time you've experienced this? Did you ever use MF pads again and experience the same issue?

crxman2010 said:
Will get a picture posted later, but I had a similar problem. Only mine was with a Lake County Backing plate and Mequiars MF pads. Melted the pad and backing plate together in the center...removal of the pad ended up tearing away the center velcro of the backing plate. I was only using speed 5 though. Griots 6"

I had to switch over to 4" pads at that point and was only half done, got lucky though, there isn't that much paint on an old crx :D.
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Looks to me like you "burned" the pads up with the GG polisher at speed 6. Maybe AG will give you a break and send you some replacements. Tough break either way.
 
I'd also chime in here and suggest that this may be a user issue. Foam is not going to take excessive heat. As the tool operator you need to inspect the pad after a couple passes and clean it. You can't just run the thing on high speed indefinitely. Pick up the PC and examine the pad after each pass. Is it getting hot? Are you applying excessive pressure to achieve your correction? If you clean the pad frequently while you use it you will see better cut with less pressure and it will also allow the pad to cool a bit if it is getting warm. I like to use compressed air to clean the pad which also helps to keep the pad cool but a folded cotton towel will also work. I'd suggest this is a problem you would have had with any foam pad from any manufacturer.
 
Are you shure the black washer is installed on the backing plate? The lack of a washer will cause the pad to overheat.

The washer plus a bit of heat-sink grease will fix everything.
 
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I have always used LC CCS pads. The first year I used them I had this happen to one of my orange pads just like you did. I used the pad for almost an entire truck on speed 6 on a Flex 3401 though. I called AG and explained what happened. They replaced the pad & backing plate and explained that I needed to use more pads for a complete detail. Since then I have used no fewer than 3 pads for a vehicle (usually more) and I have never seen this happen to any of my LC pads again. Strange that you would have this issue after only one panel though. Keeping the pad clean is also important. Do you use a pad cleaning brush to brush off polish residue?
 
jfelbab said:
I'd also chime in here and suggest that this may be a user issue. Foam is not going to take excessive heat. As the tool operator you need to inspect the pad after a couple passes and clean it. You can't just run the thing on high speed indefinitely. Pick up the PC and examine the pad after each pass. Is it getting hot? Are you applying excessive pressure to achieve your correction? If you clean the pad frequently while you use it you will see better cut with less pressure and it will also allow the pad to cool a bit if it is getting warm. I like to use compressed air to clean the pad which also helps to keep the pad cool but a folded cotton towel will also work. I'd suggest this is a problem you would have had with any foam pad from any manufacturer.
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It's entirely possible it was my fault. I do admit I never really took the time to inspect anything until the first pad burned up. I've only done a couple of full details in the past using the same method of pad priming, taking the same amount of time making section passes, and using about the same # of pads for the entire car (4 or 5 pads). This didn't happen those last 2 times, but a couple of things were different this time around; the newer CCS pads and the D151. I'm guessing that it might have required a different method from me - I might have needed to use less product and clean the pads much more frequently. Thanks for your suggestions.

bmwgalore said:
Are you shure the black washer is installed on the backing plate? The lack of a washer will cause the pad to overheat.

The washer plus a bit of heat-sink grease will fix everything.
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No, I am not sure. Great point. I will go check that later today. Thanks!

TimmyG said:
Looks to me like you "burned" the pads up with the GG polisher at speed 6. Maybe AG will give you a break and send you some replacements. Tough break either way.
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Yea, I might call and see what they have to say. I'm not convinced this is pad failure due to the pads. It may be pad failure due to to user procedures.

travis2375 said:
I have always used LC CCS pads. The first year I used them I had this happen to one of my orange pads just like you did. I used the pad for almost an entire truck on speed 6 on a Flex 3401 though. I called AG and explained what happened. They replaced the pad & backing plate and explained that I needed to use more pads for a complete detail. Since then I have used no fewer than 3 pads for a vehicle (usually more) and I have never seen this happen to any of my LC pads again. Strange that you would have this issue after only one panel though. Keeping the pad clean is also important. Do you use a pad cleaning brush to brush off polish residue?
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Yes, I used a pad cleaning brush to clean the pads. And the first pad I really over-used it. I used it longer than all the others. And it didn't melt at all. But maybe the backing plate was gathering heat

Thanks all!!!
 
That is definitely caused by too much product in the pad and extreme pressure on the pad for it to burn and melt like that. That is not a manufacturing defect.
 
I have never had any Lake Country pad do this to me. It is all about user technique and knowing when you are applying too much pressure.
 
lokerola said:
Thanks crxman. Was that the only time you've experienced this? Did you ever use MF pads again and experience the same issue?
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Yes. I have used MF pads with this backing plate before and never had any issues (D300, Poli-Seal, Compound II). The only thing that changed in my routine was the use of hyper compound instead of my normal stuff, and I was having difficulty getting a decent spray out of the bottle versus the squirt in the center of the pad. So while my pad wasn't saturated, I don't doubt I had to much product towards the center of the pad even with trying to spread it about. Pad velcro literally fused to the backing plate velcro. Also, the velcro backing on the pad was quite loose to the foam. My wager is I got to much hyper compound in the center of the pad, some glue failed, lots of heat was created.

The stains in the picture are from last year when I was doing a truck with poli-seal. I thought it was a good idea to let my wife and owner run the machine on the last fender as a learning experience.........I guess I can best describe the poli-seal application as syrup on pancakes....

backingplate.jpg
 
Most interesting. I too have used these (CCS) pads before and never had issues. I guess it's just my own learning curve and knowing when a pad is too saturated. And learning about how much pressure to apply to the DA. I didn't think I was going overboard, but the melted pads speak for themselves.

Thanks for posting the pic.

crxman2010 said:
Yes. I have used MF pads with this backing plate before and never had any issues (D300, Poli-Seal, Compound II). The only thing that changed in my routine was the use of hyper compound instead of my normal stuff, and I was having difficulty getting a decent spray out of the bottle versus the squirt in the center of the pad. So while my pad wasn't saturated, I don't doubt I had to much product towards the center of the pad even with trying to spread it about. Pad velcro literally fused to the backing plate velcro. Also, the velcro backing on the pad was quite loose to the foam. My wager is I got to much hyper compound in the center of the pad, some glue failed, lots of heat was created.

The stains in the picture are from last year when I was doing a truck with poli-seal. I thought it was a good idea to let my wife and owner run the machine on the last fender as a learning experience.........I guess I can best describe the poli-seal application as syrup on pancakes....

backingplate.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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