Menzerna 3800 vs Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion vs Pinnacle Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish

[crazyhank]

Another quick question...what are your thoughts after cleaning the paint, putting Klasse AIO on before PBL Sealant and Souveran wax? (black car)

Klasse AIO has protectant, which is the reason I always used it before. But any benefit before sealant on bare paint?

OR...is there is a better protectant before sealant you guys recommend?

 

[mwoolfso]

Klasse AIO falls along the lines of Pinnacle Cleansing lotion, a pre-wax cleaner. With the right pad it can promote some correction but the product itself is chemical-based cleaners. And let me tell you, it works!!!! I did my 2015 VW CC about a month or so ago and the stuff that came onto my MF pad was unreal. 2 relatively new yellow pads went towards grey coloring!

 

[Desertnate]

Klasse AIO falls along the lines of Pinnacle Cleansing lotion, a pre-wax cleaner. With the right pad it can promote some correction but the product itself is chemical-based cleaners. And let me tell you, it works!!!! I did my 2015 VW CC about a month or so ago and the stuff that came onto my MF pad was unreal. 2 relatively new yellow pads went towards grey coloring!

It is a good cleaner and in my experience that is one reason why you want to keep it away from your trim and plastic bits.

 

[crazyhank]

Good thread...

I'll try to get back to this...

Hi Mike - Would love your take on it if you get a chance. Particularly if i use Menzerna 3800, should PBL Cleansing Polish still be used?

Thank you!

 

[mwoolfso]

It is a good cleaner and in my experience that is one reason why you want to keep it away from your trim and plastic bits.

Why? I never heard of Klasse damaging trim. Not that I am expert in Klasse so hence the question.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

From what I've read/done, using a polish like 3500/3800 makes a 'cleansing lotion/polish' redundant unless you're applying a coating as LSP. In the case of a coating you want the surface as perfect (compound/polish) as possible and then as clean as possible (IPA/Eraser/WG Paint Prep) before applying coating.

Seems to be if you compound/polish there is no need for cleansing lotions for sealants although IPA/Eraser/WG Paint Prep wipedown is OK to do 'just to make sure' surface is free of residue from compound/polish.

Did a car using McKees paint coating last weekend...FG400 + SF3500...skipped the McKees Paint Prep polish and did wipedown with WG Perfect Finish Paint Prep to insure surface clean of a polish residue.

 

[ducksfan]

It is a good cleaner and in my experience that is one reason why you want to keep it away from your trim and plastic bits.

My experience is also different. Just used Klasse AIO to clean up the trim on a 10 year old Honda CRV. One hand applying the product with a foam applicator; the other hand immediately removing with a microfiber. Made it look like new.

 

[mwoywod]

Just to clear up whether klasse AIO stains trim it's one of those products that can enhance trim but you have to literally take it off as soon as you apply it and even then it might be too late. It's not like Optimum Poli-seal or Meguiar's ULW where you could forget to remove it for a day and you'd be fine. Desertnate's post is probably on point by saying the chemical cleaners are why it's best to keep it off the trim. KAIO is one of the mysteries of the universe. Half the time I see people using it to enhance their trim, the other half I see struggling to find a way to remove the staining it left off their trim.
work it.

 

[Desertnate]

Desertnate's post is probably on point by saying the chemical cleaners are why it's best to keep it off the trim. KAIO is one of the mysteries of the universe. Half the time I see people using it to enhance their trim, the other half I see struggling to find a way to remove the staining it left off their trim.
work it.

This is exactly what I was getting at.

I only used Klasse AIO one time on my 2010 Mazda3 trim and I'm still suffering the effects of that decision 6 years later. I applied the product and immediately wiped it off, thinking it would protect/clean up the surface just like it does the paint so I could put down Klasse SG. I couldn't have been more wrong.

The immediate results looked good. Everything looked clean and nice. However, within and hour or so, before I could even apply the SG, the black plastic started taking on a mottled, sick, long neglected look even thought the car was barely a year old and the trim had always been protected. Two hours-ish later, the look remained and I could now start to see texture from the MF pads I used to apply the KAIO. Ever since, I've never been able to restore the plastic to how it looked before I applied the KAIO. Any attempts to use a trim restorer or coating seem to do get absorbed into the plastic disspears. Only protectants like Mother Back to Black seem to provide relief, but they then run off the first time it rains.

Lesson learned for me...I'll never get KAIO anywhere near my trim.

 

[mwoolfso]

From what I've read/done, using a polish like 3500/3800 makes a 'cleansing lotion/polish' redundant unless you're applying a coating as LSP. In the case of a coating you want the surface as perfect (compound/polish) as possible and then as clean as possible (IPA/Eraser/WG Paint Prep) before applying coating.

Seems to be if you compound/polish there is no need for cleansing lotions for sealants although IPA/Eraser/WG Paint Prep wipedown is OK to do 'just to make sure' surface is free of residue from compound/polish.

Did a car using McKees paint coating last weekend...FG400 + SF3500...skipped the McKees Paint Prep polish and did wipedown with WG Perfect Finish Paint Prep to insure surface clean of a polish residue.

Your approach is sound as long as you understand you are taking away more paint with a polish vs. a cleaner-wax or cleaner-sealant type product. It goes back to the least abrasive principle Mike has touted. That aside, it's also one aspect of detailing some folks find out - quasi-redundant products on the shelf. I have the several cleaner-wax's, cleaner-sealants on my shelf and it will be an odd day indeed if I ever use them again. My approach is moving towards coatings slowly but surely.

My experience is also different. Just used Klasse AIO to clean up the trim on a 10 year old Honda CRV. One hand applying the product with a foam applicator; the other hand immediately removing with a microfiber. Made it look like new.

Same here. The key is to ensure one does not use too much product.

Just to clear up whether klasse AIO stains trim it's one of those products that can enhance trim but you have to literally take it off as soon as you apply it and even then it might be too late. It's not like Optimum Poli-seal or Meguiar's ULW where you could forget to remove it for a day and you'd be fine. Desertnate's post is probably on point by saying the chemical cleaners are why it's best to keep it off the trim. KAIO is one of the mysteries of the universe. Half the time I see people using it to enhance their trim, the other half I see struggling to find a way to remove the staining it left off their trim.
work it.

(see above)

This is exactly what I was getting at.

I only used Klasse AIO one time on my 2010 Mazda3 trim and I'm still suffering the effects of that decision 6 years later. I applied the product and immediately wiped it off, thinking it would protect/clean up the surface just like it does the paint so I could put down Klasse SG. I couldn't have been more wrong.

The immediate results looked good. Everything looked clean and nice. However, within and hour or so, before I could even apply the SG, the black plastic started taking on a mottled, sick, long neglected look even thought the car was barely a year old and the trim had always been protected. Two hours-ish later, the look remained and I could now start to see texture from the MF pads I used to apply the KAIO. Ever since, I've never been able to restore the plastic to how it looked before I applied the KAIO. Any attempts to use a trim restorer or coating seem to do get absorbed into the plastic disspears. Only protectants like Mother Back to Black seem to provide relief, but they then run off the first time it rains.

Lesson learned for me...I'll never get KAIO anywhere near my trim.

Maybe too much product was used. If applied in the sun of when the trim was warm/hot, the chemicals probably baked into the trim and did their job. I'm not accusing just brainstorming. Secondly, Mazda trim is probably not as durable as other brands. Trim can be pretty different from one car to the next. I had a hell of a time with Acadia trim and with my wife's Acura, the trim reacts better to things. I wouldn't write off the product line on the whole though.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Your approach is sound as long as you understand you are taking away more paint with a polish vs. a cleaner-wax or cleaner-sealant type product. It goes back to the least abrasive principle Mike has touted.

Yep...absolutely. The least aggressive approach is usually the least work as well. If the paint woulda warranted it, woulda loved going with just the prep polish then the coating.

Unfortunately in this case the swirls and deeper imperfections warranted the 2-step approach after test sections proved the polish alone would not be sufficient. Especially in a garage on a 87 degree day. Not a fun afternoon...but a productive one.