Menzerna FG400 or Meguiars 105?

Since I have tried FG400 there is no going back to M105 unless it is to do a relatives vehicle that I am doing for free so I can use up the bottle. Even when using it with wool there is just simply less dusting and a better finish to chase with the polish step.
 
If you want a 6000 grit DA sanding disc, you can use an old 3000 grit DA sanding disc.

(Obviously I was kidding about that :laughing: )
 
TundraPower said:
Actually this is a moot conversation. Technological advances in wet sanding will soon render harsh abrasives and pads obsolete. I am a firm believer in the 3M 3000-5000 Trizact system. Soon 6000 grit papers will be available.
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:iagree:

HUMP
 
In the video, they still used a rotary, but after the 3000 and the 6000, a Rupes or a Flex would finish down almost LSP ready with a medium cut pad and FG400. I know, I did it this past weekend.
You can check my post on my wife's Toyota Camry. I sanded with 3,000 followed by 5,000 and then took the Rupes 15 with the yellow Rupes pad with FG400. Finished out very nice. I then took SOnax 4/6 and polished the vehicle. You can see the results in the thread. I did all of this in around 8.5 to 9 hours. If I would have conventionally compounded the vehicle and then tried to polish I would not have gotten it done in the time I had.

HUMP
 
If my knowledge serves me right, the compounding step is to remove paint defects, and the polish is just to refine hazing from the compounding step.
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I will always use a polish after compounding so I am most interested in the compounding ability. I should probably give M100 a try. I've been using FG400 and really have no complaints, but like most people I was looking to save a little money.
 
HUMP DIESEL said:
In the video, they still used a rotary, but after the 3000 and the 6000, a Rupes or a Flex would finish down almost LSP ready with a medium cut pad and FG400. I know, I did it this past weekend.
You can check my post on my wife's Toyota Camry. I sanded with 3,000 followed by 5,000 and then took the Rupes 15 with the yellow Rupes pad with FG400. Finished out very nice. I then took SOnax 4/6 and polished the vehicle. You can see the results in the thread. I did all of this in around 8.5 to 9 hours. If I would have conventionally compounded the vehicle and then tried to polish I would not have gotten it done in the time I had.

HUMP
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Did you dona test spot to see if you could skip the compounding after 5000 and go straight to polish?

I wonder if you could have saved a bunch if time.

If you are going to compound w FG400, the 3000 grit sanding marks would not have been an issue.


I think the value of the 5000 & 6000 grit papers is realized only if they allow you to go straight to polish
 
BrandonS said:
I want to learn
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You can do it.

I have lost track of it now, but look for or ask Mike Phillips where his excellent article/video on wet sanding is on the forum. Start with a Griots Garage 3" polisher as in the article.
 
allenk4 said:
The price may inhibit that....List price for the 6" 5000 grit is $100 for a box of 15 Almost $7 per I have heard 4 panels per pad, so an SUV would take 3
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$100 for 15 ?????

Shop around a little bit :dblthumb2:
 
In my experpiment, I did 3000 for control.

I then used M100 vs FG400 to buff out the sanding marks.

My test was to see if I could skip the polishing step and go straight to D151.

Well FG400 did finish out better than M100, but both needed to be polished after.

So my test concluded that if your removing 3000 sanding grit, either M100 or FG400 can both remove the sanding marks, but they both need to be be followed by the polishing step. So going straight from compound to AIO would not work. Even with the compound that finishes out almost LSP ready.

I'm sure it's a different courses for different horses type thing, but just wanted to get a generalization of that idea. I made sure to do IPA wipedowns.

Also since they both finished pretty close to each other, FG400 was a bit better, but not enough to cover the cost of it. (Migh still have a secret stash of it lol) I came up with M100 works just as good and for a lot less.

Plus you can keep working it, since it is SMAT.
 
allenk4 said:
Did you dona test spot to see if you could skip the compounding after 5000 and go straight to polish?

I wonder if you could have saved a bunch if time.

If you are going to compound w FG400, the 3000 grit sanding marks would not have been an issue.


I think the value of the 5000 & 6000 grit papers is realized only if they allow you to go straight to polish
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I used a polishing pad with the FG 400 to get the initial cut but also to allow it to finish down. The point is not necessarily to go faster, but to create controlled chaos with the imperfections in the paint. The sanding does this. It was however faster than doing a standard hard compound and cut then refining that part and much safer.

This is after 5000 and doing the polishing with the Rupes Yellow and FG400. You be the judge.



HUMP
 
HUMP DIESEL said:
I used a polishing pad with the FG 400 to get the initial cut but also to allow it to finish down. The point is not necessarily to go faster, but to create controlled chaos with the imperfections in the paint. The sanding does this. It was however faster than doing a standard hard compound and cut then refining that part and much safer. This is after 5000 and doing the polishing with the Rupes Yellow and FG400. You be the judge.



HUMP
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:dblthumb2:

And you will never get paint as level with a polisher as you will wet sanding. HUMP did a great job on this car. From trashed to this in 9 hours without sanding? I'd love to see that :)
 
allenk4 said:
I quoted the "list price" I think they are $89 on AGO right now How many 5000 grit would you use on a typical sedan?
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5000 lasts longer than 3000, much less clogging of the paper with slurry. I would guess 3-4 disks.
 
TundraPower said:
5000 lasts longer than 3000, much less clogging of the paper with slurry. I would guess 3-4 disks.
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Your work looks great!


I have no doubt that finish sanding is fantastic and can play a role in some paint corrections.

I have been taught machine sanding with 1500 & 3000 grit down at Meguiar's.


I just question the economics for the average detailer.

If the time savings offsets the additional product costs of 3000/5000 versus compounding

For round numbers, let's call it $5 per sanding pad

3000 grit 4-5 discs = $20-$25
5000 grit 3-4 discs = $15-$20

So for a detailer who's earning target is $40 per hour; the discs need to save him at least an hour to break even. Assuming they have every hour of the week booked solid.

I can't imagine going straight to polishing without re-washing a car after damp sanding, so factor that in as well.

You can buy a lot if compound for $45


I think the 5000/6000 grit papers will find their place, but I don't believe it will be with detailers who are doing anything less than Concours level work.

All that being said...I look forward to playing with them!
 
Well, if you take my Camry example and look at that, I saved I would think at least a couple of hours if not more by sanding first and then polishing/compounding (sort of did a hybrid thing). There you could easily make back the money.
I will continue to use it, because if I have to pull out a really aggressive compound to get the finish where it needs to be, then I for one will grab the sanding disc.

HUMP
 
allenk4 said:
Your work looks great! I have no doubt that finish sanding is fantastic and can play a role in some paint corrections. I have been taught machine sanding with 1500 & 3000 grit down at Meguiar's. I just question the economics for the average detailer. If the time savings offsets the additional product costs of 3000/5000 versus compounding

For round numbers, let's call it $5 per sanding pad

3000 grit 4-5 discs = $20-$25
5000 grit 3-4 discs = $15-$20

So for a detailer who's earning target is $40 per hour; the discs need to save him at least an hour to break even. Assuming they have every hour of the week booked solid.
I can't imagine going straight to polishing without re-washing a car after damp sanding, so factor that in as well.
You can buy a lot if compound for $45
I think the 5000/6000 grit papers will find their place, but I don't believe it will be with detailers who are doing anything less than Concours level work.
All that being said...I look forward to playing with them!
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Thank you for the kind words. I am certainly ***NOT*** a Concours level detailer. What these products do is save enormous amounts of time and they are much safer (almost zero heat). All I have is a 3M 5" electric sander nothing fancy. I can wet sand a severely swirled average size hood with 3000 and 5000 in about 20 minutes and be ready for final polishing.

When you try it you will see...ask HUMP if he is a now a believer :)
 
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