Menzerna SF4000 OR SF4500?? On soft paint!!!

Radarryan

Radarryan

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First let me give you a little background on what my usage would be...

After polishing my car with Optimum Polish II with a white foam pad (LC CCS 5.5in) and Optimum Finish with a grey pad, I saw micro-marring in the great equalizer we call the sun. I did test spots and checked with large halogen lights but in the garage it looked great. In addition, I found Optimum polishes to be hard to work with. They we're mainly chosen because I was applying Opti-Coat 2.0 and wanted to work "within the same system."

Maybe it was my soft Porsche paint (black) but I was not too happy with the results. No one else could see any marring, but like a true enthusiast, if I could see them within 6inches I am going to be mad (just like 98% of us on this fourm)! Moving on -- I did my mom's BMW X5 with M205 single step with a white pad to prepare for Opti-Coat. I wanted it to look "good" but it didn't have to be showcar perfect. The results were beyond expectations with barely any trails visible @ 1' in the sun!

So my dad then asked me if I could Opti-Coat his 2012 Aston Martin (Oynx Black (metallic)). I was planning on using 205 again and then following up with either SF4000 or 4500 to produce a perfect finish. I also want something that I can use on my soft Porsche paint when I re-Opti-Coat in a year or whenever there is a spot in need of protection. I want something that finishes down perfectly to produce unparalleled shine. It would also be good if the product was good as a standalone to use on garaged, barely driven exotics.

Which do you all prefer and why? If there is another product that could do the job better then I am open to any and all suggestions. Thank you all for your time and any questions and/or comments are greatly appreciated. Happy detailing!
 
Well I have only ever worked on 1 truly soft paint - a Java Black Subaru, and used SF4000 on a black finishing pad with a PC and got it to finish down really well. My understanding is that black Porsche paint will be even softer, and perhaps then the SF4500 may be a slightly better option?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/60312-java-black-pearl-subaru-impreza-wrx-detailed-lawrence.html

Menzerna PF2500 is obviously more aggressive and I tend to use it a lot as a 1 step on harder VAG clear coats, so depending on the 'hardness' of the exotics you refer to, this may be a good stand alone polish for you?

Of course working the polishes on different pads may offer some 'range' of cut between the SF4000 and PF2500 (not sure what sort of 'stock' of pads you have at your disposal.

Hope this may help a little?
 
I'd go for the SF4000. This is a fine cut polish and the SF4500 is an Ultra Fine Cut Polish, even when working on soft paints if you need to remove defects you still need something with some level or measure of cut. SF4000 with a Lake Country Black Finishing Pad on a Porter Cable or similar type of polisher will finish out flawless on about 99% of the paint system on the market.

I actually can't think of a car that I've worked on where this combo hasn't worked as expected.


If you want to do some jeweling, then get the SF4500 or even the Sonax Nano Polish, both are very good.


Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers



:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I'd go for the SF4000. This is a fine cut polish and the SF4500 is an Ultra Fine Cut Polish, even when working on soft paints if you need to remove defects you still need something with some level or measure of cut. SF4000 with a Lake Country Black Finishing Pad on a Porter Cable or similar type of polisher will finish out flawless on about 99% of the paint system on the market.

I actually can't think of a car that I've worked on where this combo hasn't worked as expected.


If you want to do some jeweling, then get the SF4500 or even the Sonax Nano Polish, both are very good.


:)
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Thanks Mike for all your continued help. Just to make sure that I understand: for a final polish or even as a stand-alone product that will finish down to a flawless finish — go with SF4000 with a finishing pad?

If I really want to take the extra time and jewel the paint, then the SF4500 would be my choice with a jeweling pad?

Sorry for the extra questions, I just want to ensure that you did not mean to go SF4000 then 4500 to produce a good finish, but rather 4500 only use is really for jeweling.
 
Do you have the regular or metallic black?

I have a metallic black 2013 Porsche Cayenne. When she was only two weeks old, i took her to a "detailer" at the local mall for a wash while i ate lunch. He left the Cayenne with swirls all over. A Flex 3401 and Menzerna SF4500 with a green and blue pad eliminated everything.

swirl_zps9c49a513.jpg

Before (Looked much worse in person under the sun)


Picture001_zps866602be.jpg

Before (Looked much worse in person under the sun)


Picture002_zps41fd0d03.jpg

After


Picture004_zpsd3fb84b1.jpg

After


Picture003_zps4473e729.jpg

After
 
anonymoususer said:
Do you have the regular or metallic black?

I have a metallic black 2013 Porsche Cayenne. When she was only two weeks old took her to a "detailer" at the local mall for a wash while i ate lunch. He left the Cayenne with swirls all over. A Flex 3401 and Menzerna SF4500 with a green and blue pad eliminated everything.
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I have regular black on my 911 but my dad has metallic black. Do you think 4500 would be more user-friendly because it has less cut (I can always augment the pads I use for the desired result)? If I can get it looking as good as yours, I would sure be happy! Great job and thanks for your help with this matter!
 
Radarryan said:
I have regular black on my 911 but my dad has metallic black. Do you think 4500 would be more user-friendly because it has less cut (I can always augment the pads I use for the desired result)? If I can get it looking as good as yours, I would sure be happy! Great job and thanks for your help with this matter!
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If i'm not mistaken, the regular Porsche black is softer than the metallic.

I'd probably get both the 4000 and 4500 with a light cutting pad (orange - for spot treatment of the scratches), a couple polishing pads (green), and a couple finishing pads (blue). I'd start with 4500 and green pad and finish with the blue pad. Only if necessary use the 4000 and eventually finish off with the 4500 and blue pad. Both are very fine, and with a orbital, i can't imagine screwing up with either.
 
anonymoususer said:
If i'm not mistaken, the regular Porsche black is softer than the metallic.

I'd probably get both the 4000 and 4500 with a light cutting pad (orange - for spot treatment of the scratches), a couple polishing pads (green), and a couple finishing pads (blue). I'd start with 4500 and green pad and finish with the blue pad. Only if necessary use the 4000 and eventually finish off with the 4500 and blue pad. Both are very fine, and with a orbital, i can't imagine screwing up with either.
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Thanks for your input! There are no deep scratches in either of the paints. From my previous experience with my Porsche paint and Optimum polishes, I saw just how soft it is. I don't want to take a chance with my dad's Aston, so I figured either 4000 or 4500 would be the best for me, and, by extension, him. Not sure if Aston Martin paint is soft or hard, but I doubt a finishing pad with either of those would be too harsh.
 
SF4500 is by far my most favorite polish. Here i used it with a crimson LC hydro pad on a Flex PE 14-2

This is a Black 944 Turbo that I did a few months ago. It finished very well IMO.

11-1.jpg


13-1.jpg


22.jpg


Roof reflection

162.jpg
 
silverfox said:
Three words...sonax perfect finish.
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I am defenitly curious about this... I've only heard good things, however I am concerned that it may have too much cut for my needs. SF 4000 & 4500 both don't seem to have much cut which may be important. Can you expand on why you prefer this on soft black paint? (And anyone else, too!)

Theostoubos said:
SF4500 is by far my most favorite polish. Here i used it with a crimson LC hydro pad on a Flex PE 14-2
Click to expand...

I have only used CCS pads but I don't particularly like them so I was thinking about getting the hydro flat or just flat pads from LC. I thought I heard something about the hydro pads being too aggressive/hard on black paint, especially if it is soft. What are your thoughts on the pads and Sonax Perfect Finish vs. 4500?
 
Theostoubos said:
SF4500 is by far my most favorite polish. Here i used it with a crimson LC hydro pad on a Flex PE 14-2

Roof reflection

162.jpg
Click to expand...

Just sic. I want a PE14-2. If only I could stop spending my free cash on my daughter :props:
 
Sonax perfect finish ...is perfect...for anybody with soft or black paint. With a simple pad change you can cut to the bone, or finish perfectly.

SF 4000 and 4500 are classics however in my opinion they pale in comparison to the sonax product when it comes to working on soft paint and generally finicky, problematic paints...especially black.
 
[/QUOTE] I have only used CCS pads but I don't particularly like them so I was thinking about getting the hydro flat or just flat pads from LC. I thought I heard something about the hydro pads being too aggressive/hard on black paint, especially if it is soft. What are your thoughts on the pads and Sonax Perfect Finish vs. 4500?[/QUOTE]

I haven't used Sonax Perfect Finish before so I can't really comment on it. It seems though that "Silverfox" swears by it, so i would definitely consider it. I had great results using SF4500. As far as the pads I do use CCS pads and when I'm concerned about "finishing" I will use either a black or a blue.

If an Aston Martin would come my way I would definitely test a couple of combinations before I decide the "course of action"

I was reading on someone else's write up on an Aston Martin when I came across these 50/50 shots. What I found interesting was the true difference on the finish between just correcting/compounding vs polishing/finishing/jeweling. There are quite a few write ups on Black Aston Martins that you might be able to refer to and see what results people got and what kind of polish & pad they used. If I find the one I'm referring to I will post the link.

489df975bb0bf75b5e822872ffe5d085.jpg


c761b7584bb4ade3fa3f96dfd7b78939.jpg
 
I bought SF4500 for the sole purpose of working with Black Porsche paint. It has been the softest, most finicky paint I have ever touched, but with SF4500 and a crimson LC pad, I can finish down perfectly..... I have also had good results using it with other pads to get a bit more cut on paints that are not as soft, but still require an ultra fine polish for finishing (like jet black).
 
zmcgovern45 said:
I bought SF4500 for the sole purpose of working with Black Porsche paint. It has been the softest, most finicky paint I have ever touched, but with SF4500 and a crimson LC pad, I can finish down perfectly..... I have also had good results using it with other pads to get a bit more cut on paints that are not as soft, but still require an ultra fine polish for finishing (like jet black).
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I know what you mean man... They're rough. Are the crimson LC pads equivalent to a grey or blue flat or CCS pad? I've heard good things about the crimson pads for finishing, so maybe I'll have to pick up or two for finishing on my paint. I'm sure I could bump the pad to green or white with 4500 if I needed a little extra bite, but then again, I'm sure the same could be said about Sonus PF. Ah, decisions decisions. I am thankful I have this forum and its members to bounce things off of. Thank you all!
 
I haven't used Sonax Perfect Finish before so I can't really comment on it. It seems though that "Silverfox" swears by it, so i would definitely consider it. I had great results using SF4500. As far as the pads I do use CCS pads and when I'm concerned about "finishing" I will use either a black or a blue.

If an Aston Martin would come my way I would definitely test a couple of combinations before I decide the "course of action"

I was reading on someone else's write up on an Aston Martin when I came across these 50/50 shots. What I found interesting was the true difference on the finish between just correcting/compounding vs polishing/finishing/jeweling. There are quite a few write ups on Black Aston Martins that you might be able to refer to and see what results people got and what kind of polish & pad they used. If I find the one I'm referring to I will post the link.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input. When I did my Porsche, I started with Optimum Finish and a grey CCS pad and even that was too intense, so I know what you mean about locking in a combo and finishing with grey and blue.

Theostoubos said:
Hey....
I found it. Here you go. A really nice write up. That's why I love Autogeekonline.... Such a great community.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-detailed-07-aston-martin-db9-correction.html

Guess what ? Finishing was done By :

Menzerna PO85RD (SF4500) on LC CCS grey pad via FLEX 3401
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You can say that again! It really is a great group of people. Thank you for finding the thread. It seems that the ole stand by is 4500 but the new kid on the block (Sonus PF) is making some waves. It would be great if someone had both and could do a 50/50 shot on soft, preferably black paint. It would sure clear up a lot of confusion with which one to go with!
 
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