Multiple Questions to Help Me PROPERLY Finish a BLACK BMW Detail

[CASH XRS]

Hey all, Happy Monday. Hope you all had a good Easter. With that being said I will give you a quick back drop to my saturday and then proceed with the questions.

I detailed my boss' wife's BlacK BMW 3 Series on Saturday and spent about 6 and a half hours on it. However, it isn't completely done. The car looked as if it hadn't been cleaned, washed or detailed in at least a year. Naturally the wheels were just about black with bmw's legendary brake dust. The paint was also in rough shape and after a wash, I noticed a good amount of water spots showing up. I dried her car the same way I did mine earlier in the day and I know the process dried the car very well. Since I saw all the spots, I did not wax because I didn't want to waste my time and wax when I knew I wanted to clean the paint better beforehand.

Now onto my questions:

First and foremost: I cleaned the wheels using Detailer Pro Series wheel cleaner and the Mother's wheel cleaner brush. I was able to get off about 80% of the brake dust, but there is still a lot of REALLY stubborn brake dust and tiny black specks all over the wheels still.
- What cleaner(s) and brush or applicator would you guys recommend to help get rid of the REALLY stubborn stuff still on the wheels?

The paint seemed to be littered with old water spots and a couple other markings (not exactly sure what). My method to try and rid the car's paint of these was to clay the car down using Meguiar's Clay Kit and to polish the paint with Meguiar's SwirlX.
- Will this do a good enough job to get rid of the water spots and markings? Just a note here - My boss doesn't want/need the paint to be immaculate, but wants a good shine.

One last thing was the interior: I used Lexol leather cleaner and leather conditioner on the seats. The cleaner did an OK job on some stains but barely removed others. I was using a terry cloth and rubbing the product into the seat. I don't have a good upholstery brush YET (plan on ordering one today). Would applying the product to a brush and then scrubbing it into the seats yield better results?

Sorry I have no pictures to show as of now, camera's at home. All this will be done by hand by the way, don't have a DA polisher yet.

Thanks for any help and recommendations guys, if you need any more infor to make a recommendation just let me know!

- Cash

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

The paint seemed to be littered with old water spots and a couple other markings (not exactly sure what). My method to try and rid the car's paint of these was to clay the car down using Meguiar's Clay Kit and to polish the paint with Meguiar's SwirlX.


- Will this do a good enough job to get rid of the water spots and markings? Just a note here - My boss doesn't want/need the paint to be immaculate, but wants a good shine.

- Cash

Two things...

1. Meguiar's SwirlX is a fine cut polish, it might not be aggressive enough to remove enough paint quickly enough to level the surface. Consider using something a little more aggressive.

2. If nothing's changed and by this I mean however your boss took care of the car before you detailed it if this is how he's going to take care of it into the future then nothing's changed and ignore what I wrote above, just get the paint shiny and wax it. Maybe even use a one-step cleaner/wax or AIO


If your boss has seen the light and is now going to be more careful with how he takes care of his BMW to keep up it's appearance then maybe try to remove some or all of the water spots but only if the car isn't parked where the problem can happen again, like parked next to a sprinkler that always turns-on at 4:00am in the morning because the water spots will just appear again.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[CASH XRS]

Two things...

1. Meguiar's SwirlX is a fine cut polish, it might not be aggressive enough to remove enough paint quickly enough to level the surface. Consider using something a little more aggressive.

2. If nothing's changed and by this I mean however your boss took care of the car before you detailed it if this is how he's going to take care of it into the future then nothing's changed and ignore what I wrote above, just get the paint shiny and wax it. Maybe even use a one-step cleaner/wax or AIO


If your boss has seen the light and is now going to be more careful with how he takes care of his BMW to keep up it's appearance then maybe try to remove some or all of the water spots but only if the car isn't parked where the problem can happen again, like parked next to a sprinkler that always turns-on at 4:00am in the morning because the water spots will just appear again.


:xyxthumbs:

Thanks for the input Mike, just so I respond in order:

1. Do you think something like Ultimate Compund is too aggressive or is that something that would be perfect for this situation?

2. I'm not sure if things have changed yet or not, I am hoping that once he sees the final product it will shed some light on keeping it clean from now on. When I first set up the appointment he said he didn't need the clay/polish (an upsell of $50 on my price list) and I said no problem. I then talked to him an explained that the paint was marked up pretty bad and it would finish out a lot nicer if we did the step. He was fine with it because he realized the car probably could use it, and I am using this as hope lol. And I don't believe the spots came from anything of an odd occurence, it just seems to have been a while since it was truly cleaned.

The other reason I want to try and properly take care of this now is that I am hoping to make him and his wife regular customers of mine and hope to get the on a monthly maintenance plan. (They are actually good friends of mine and I spend a good amount of time around them and their family) OR at the very least, get my hands on their cars once every couple months. I know he is OK with the prices and understands that if the paint is bad enough that it needs the work. So I am hoping to clean the slate now to make future work easier on myself.

If I DID go the route of Ultimate Compound would it be much easier/smarter to wait until I have a DA polisher? I hope to get the PC 7424XP at the end of this month since my birthday is coming up.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks for the input Mike, just so I respond in order:

1. Do you think something like Ultimate Compound is too aggressive or is that something that would be perfect for this situation?

That would be a good choice. Since it's a SMAT product you can stop at any time during the buffing process so it's only aggressive as you work it. When the defects are gone... stop working it or stop being aggressive.

With DAT product, technically you need to work them till all the diminishing abrasives have broken down.

Here's some good reading on this topic,

The SMAT Pack - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products...

The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

(I need to update the above thread but still some good info)

2. I'm not sure if things have changed yet or not, I am hoping that once he sees the final product it will shed some light on keeping it clean from now on. When I first set up the appointment he said he didn't need the clay/polish (an up-sell of $50 on my price list) and I said no problem. I then talked to him an explained that the paint was marked up pretty bad and it would finish out a lot nicer if we did the step. He was fine with it because he realized the car probably could use it, and I am using this as hope lol. And I don't believe the spots came from anything of an odd occurrence, it just seems to have been a while since it was truly cleaned.

The other reason I want to try and properly take care of this now is that I am hoping to make him and his wife regular customers of mine and hope to get the on a monthly maintenance plan. (They are actually good friends of mine and I spend a good amount of time around them and their family) OR at the very least, get my hands on their cars once every couple months. I know he is OK with the prices and understands that if the paint is bad enough that it needs the work. So I am hoping to clean the slate now to make future work easier on myself.

Cool. Sounds like you're educating your customer. That's a win/win for both of you and it will help you to up-sell him and all your customers plus get you referrals because you'll have earned their trust.

If I DID go the route of Ultimate Compound would it be much easier/smarter to wait until I have a DA polisher? I hope to get the PC 7424XP at the end of this month since my birthday is coming up.

Definitely.

How are you doing your work now? By hand?

 

[CASH XRS]

Cool. Sounds like you're educating your customer. That's a win/win for both of you and it will help you to up-sell him and all your customers plus get you referrals because you'll have earned their trust.






Definitely.

How are you doing your work now? By hand?

As of now, yes, I am working by hand. I hope I get gift cards to AG or enough cash to put towards getting my own DA polisher. Even though I won't need it too often, I know I would use it on my own car as well as my fiancee's when needed so it would be a huge asset. Epsecially when things like this pop up with customers.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

As of now, yes, I am working by hand. I hope I get gift cards to AG or enough cash to put towards getting my own DA polisher. Even though I won't need it too often, I know I would use it on my own car as well as my fiancee's when needed so it would be a huge asset. Especially when things like this pop up with customers.

Well you can rub that car out by hand using UC followed by UP, it's a lot of work and time but you'll get some great exercise out of it...


Man versus Machine



Do try to avoid Fingermarks...


Fingermarks

 

[Pitch Black]

As of now, yes, I am working by hand. I hope I get gift cards to AG or enough cash to put towards getting my own DA polisher. Even though I won't need it too often, I know I would use it on my own car as well as my fiancee's when needed so it would be a huge asset. Epsecially when things like this pop up with customers.

A couple of years ago, just liike you, I was doing everything by hand. Talk about time consuming. You won't regret getting a DA. You will find more uses for it than you think. Good luck with the water spots, I have dealt with them on my Vette.

 

[CASH XRS]

A couple of years ago, just liike you, I was doing everything by hand. Talk about time consuming. You won't regret getting a DA. You will find more uses for it than you think. Good luck with the water spots, I have dealt with them on my Vette.

Yeah, thanks! I am on the fence because I know most of my customers won't really need (well, want) those processes done. But I feel like the few times I MAY need it each year, it would make the work so much easier and much quicker.

 

[Jomax]

Yeah, thanks! I am on the fence because I know most of my customers won't really need (well, want) those processes done. But I feel like the few times I MAY need it each year, it would make the work so much easier and much quicker.

You need to do a AIO though, right? All the time you save by getting a DA, you'll get more cars done. Time is money the DA will pay for itself fast.

 

[Paul Lonergan]

CASH XRS,

The rims are most likely clear coated so you could clay them to remove the small black dots, use a very light polish to remove the brake dust or a citrus based cleaner which i would wipe on wipe off & not leave to sit. (Keep in mind ... BMW have what is called DATA dot. they spray small dots into the clear all over the car .... in the door jambs, engine bay, sometimes they end up on the rims.) Basically they can be used to track the car in the event of it being stolen ... its unlikely that what your describing is this but just so you don't pull your hair out



The paint is a bother.
+1 for waiting for the PC
I've buffed out more black BMW's than i've probably had hot dinners.
The first important thing to establish is what kind of black it is?
There is Sapphire Black - a somewhat more forgiving paint
and then there's Jet Black - this paint is VERY soft. In which case you will most certainly require a DA Polisher. This is the kind of paint you want to have an air line near by to make sure the dust particles don't settle on the clear before you polish.
Even after you've laid your polish down you will want to blow it off before the final wiping. Its that sensitive
Mikes rule of 'working clean' could never be more important. Clean cloths, clean pads, clean underwear.

It was common for the BMW's to come in from the boats covered in salt spray from their journey over.
We perfected an art at wet sanding & buffing them out, the really bad ones required a respray.
If it is Sapphire black the clear is fairly resilient and can be worked a fair bit with out risk of burning the clear.

Best of Luck ...
Just be careful ... you'll do great :dblthumb2:

 

[CASH XRS]

You need to do a AIO though, right? All the time you save by getting a DA, you'll get more cars done. Time is money the DA will pay for itself fast.

That's a good point. I could use it to at leas t apply wax to all the cars I am doing at the very least.

CASH XRS,

The rims are most likely clear coated so you could clay them to remove the small black dots, use a very light polish to remove the brake dust or a citrus based cleaner which i would wipe on wipe off & not leave to sit. (Keep in mind ... BMW have what is called DATA dot. they spray small dots into the clear all over the car .... in the door jambs, engine bay, sometimes they end up on the rims.) Basically they can be used to track the car in the event of it being stolen ... its unlikely that what your describing is this but just so you don't pull your hair out



The paint is a bother.
+1 for waiting for the PC
I've buffed out more black BMW's than i've probably had hot dinners.
The first important thing to establish is what kind of black it is?
There is Sapphire Black - a somewhat more forgiving paint
and then there's Jet Black - this paint is VERY soft. In which case you will most certainly require a DA Polisher. This is the kind of paint you want to have an air line near by to make sure the dust particles don't settle on the clear before you polish.
Even after you've laid your polish down you will want to blow it off before the final wiping. Its that sensitive
Mikes rule of 'working clean' could never be more important. Clean cloths, clean pads, clean underwear.

It was common for the BMW's to come in from the boats covered in salt spray from their journey over.
We perfected an art at wet sanding & buffing them out, the really bad ones required a respray.
If it is Sapphire black the clear is fairly resilient and can be worked a fair bit with out risk of burning the clear.

Best of Luck ...
Just be careful ... you'll do great :dblthumb2:

Paul, I am not sure what color it is exactly. And in regards to claying and polishing the wheels, I have swirlX and Meguiar's white clay. Would this be good to use? Any recommendations on a good cleaner specifically?

I will be talking to my cousin on Wednesday who wholesales chemicals, maybe I'll talk to him about needing a good wheel cleaner concentrate and just not dilute it as much for the tougher jobs?

 

[Pitch Black]

Paul seems to know his stuff. :xyxthumbs: Good information. Is the Sapphire Black a black with metal flake? I see a lot of BMWs that aren't exactly cared for. I have problems determining if the paint is hard or soft.

 

[Paul Lonergan]

Here is a couple of links to help determine the paint type.
This one will help you find the location of the code
BMW Paint Code Locations | Touch Up Paint | AutomotiveTouchup | 888-710-5192
And here is the paint colour
Select the year of your Bmw

Pitch Black was correct in mentioning that the Metallic flake indicates a Sapphire Black finish. This would be good news.

Think of it like this ...
There are 4 variations of aggression you can use when detailing paint
1. 'The product/polish'
2. 'The type of application ' used to apply/remove the product. i.e DA, Rotory, Hand, Cyclo .... the list goes on.
3. The type of pad/cloth used to apply/remove the product
4. 'The action' you use (The human element)

If you're ever unsure you always look at this list and work your way from the least aggressive to the most aggressive. Start in a small inconspicuous area and see.
For e.g - you have swirlx, and you are applying it by hand. By using different types of pad and rubbing action you can control the result.

The more machines,pads and products you get, the more choices you have on levels of aggression AND the more experience you gain.


I haven't used swirlx before but after reading the description on the Meguiars website i imagine it to be like #9 in aggression. In this case i cant see a problem using this on those rims.
Again start with a light rubbing motion and get a feel for it.
I would probably stay away from clay just for now if they are particularly dirty, as it will just be a waste of a clay bar .

As for knowing if a paint is hard or soft ... the only way to really know is by getting hands on and discovering for yourself.

That's a good point. I could use it to at leas t apply wax to all the cars I am doing at the very least.



Paul, I am not sure what color it is exactly. And in regards to claying and polishing the wheels, I have swirlX and Meguiar's white clay. Would this be good to use? Any recommendations on a good cleaner specifically?

I will be talking to my cousin on Wednesday who wholesales chemicals, maybe I'll talk to him about needing a good wheel cleaner concentrate and just not dilute it as much for the tougher jobs?

Paul seems to know his stuff. :xyxthumbs: Good information. Is the Sapphire Black a black with metal flake? I see a lot of BMWs that aren't exactly cared for. I have problems determining if the paint is hard or soft.

 

[CASH XRS]

I gotcha. Thanks for the advice! I may just clay the car and seal it with a wax for now. Wait until the end of the month when I will hopefully get a DA polisher. Looks like I may try the SwirlX on the wheels. Any suggestions on what I should use to apply the cleaners and/or SwirlX? Like I said before, I have the Mother's wheel brush, but it would only do so much. I guess just look for a more aggressive brush?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Might give this a read through too...

Lessons I learned from a Black 2009 BMW 550i

 

[CASH XRS]

Might give this a read through too...

Lessons I learned from a Black 2009 BMW 550i

That's a good write up. Thanks Mike, pretty funny as well lol. I am just hoping I can talk over the condition of the paint with my boss and hopefully convince him to let me work on it. We shall see.

Btw, there's also a hunk of some sort of junk on the trunk (no pun intended haha). It looks like a small pile of dried up tree sap or mold. I have no clue. Hoping to post pictures of it later tonight.