My unbiased (nightmare) review of PBL V2 Diamond paint coating and Wolfgang Uber Ceramic

[emmjay]

Hello all,

Before I begin, I must say, I know 100's of you have had amazing results, and I am really happy for you all. But not all of us have amazing results unfortunately.

Onto my review....

Disclaimer: I know that I had made a mistake of not using the WG Paint prep spray properly, which might skew the review against myself, but taking that into account, I will still continue with my review if I may.

PBL V2 - Subject was a 8 year old Honda Pilot, completely a mess (separate show and shine to come)


The SUV was completely polished out using Ultimate compound, on a White Hybrid pad and my Flex.

Sample image:

Weather and surroundings: Covered garage, not fully closed but I have a roof and garage door and one wall. The other two “walls” are open to the path towards my rear garden straight up and to my front garden to the right. Plenty of wind due to the pathway having two walls on either side, towards my rear garden. 100 degrees ambient and 70-80% humidity.

Coating application:

I wiped the whole car down with Paint Prep, but like I said just once, and went to apply the coating. This could have hampered a lot of it but…..

Initial impressions:

1. Okay nice…it’s a spray…it should be easier to apply. WRONG!
The atomization might be a good thing, but, even a slight breeze and most of the product goes everywhere except where you want it to i.e. Overspray. Some of you like this aspect of the coating, I personally hated it.

Okay…I can live with that, I do have a full bottle after all.

2. Not at all user friendly. Flashes within 5 seconds…no joke

I remember Mike@Dedicatedperfection’s video on youtube that I watched close to 10 times and read his review as well. I read Nick’s comment saying that you should use a little more product. So…to be safe…I used 5-6 sprays per section instead of the 3-4 recommended.

The product was so annoying to work with that even when sprayed heavy, it would leave splatter marks. As in where the spray landed, I would work it in and wipe off and can see the splatter pattern, suggesting it was curing as soon as it hit the paint. What a PITA….

I did 75% of the SUV, except the roof with PBL v2. The roof got Menzerna Powerlock.

When I was 60% through, I had enough and called Andre@Autogeek and spoke to him regarding my problems. He said both PBL coatings are extremely tough to work with in conditions that are not temp controlled or indoors, going against all the marketing hype of the easiest coating to use. He suggested I work the product extremely heavy, say 8 pumps where they would recommend 3 and wipe of while still very wet…So I went ahead with that. The product was still flashing Insanely fast!

I felt I could finally work it for more than 5 seconds. WRONG…

Like I said, I thought I could….It was still flashing quick so I spread to a smaller section even when so heavy and wiped off….first wipe, flip over second wipe, grab another towel, final buff. All using a short nap. I used close to 30 towels on the car.

Same area as before:

All in all, I found this product quite difficult to use.

I would like to say, I might…and that’s a big “might”, have had different results if prepped properly, but that would not stop that ridiculously quick flash time.

Would I buy this product again?

No. Maybe if I had a temp controlled garage.

Would I recommend this product to others?

Yes, as long as you have a temp controlled environment, OR at least a garage that is completely sealed , four walls and a garage door. This way run a portable AC unit at least!

Overall impressions: Hard to use, but the finish was SUPER SLICK! My gf doesn’t care as her car looks brand new and she’s not worried about the high spots one bit.

LOL!

 

[emmjay]

Re: My unbiased (nightmare) review of PBL V2 and Uber Ceramic

Onto the Wolfgang Uber Ceramic review:

Test Subject: Honda Accord V6 Sport 2016. Golden Brown Metallic – my car

Car was polished with M205 and a finishing pad on my flex as that’s all it needed to remove some light marring. A white pad was used on the rear bumper, trunk and front bumper. This is because I was in a fender bender and the 2 bumpers were replaced/repainted and they wiped my entire trunk down with dry towels *cringe

Initial impressions:

I like the syringe a lot! More than the PBL spray. I used a pair of pliers to remove the white tip and replaced it with the blue tip, tighten with pliers and voila. Nice!

I did the same thing as before with the WG paint prep and suffered with streaks, but stopped right after one panel instead of stopping when I was 60% done with the car lol.

Streaks visible right in the center of the picture:

And this point I called Andre again and we spoke for a good 25 mins (again) and towards the end I brought up my WG paint prep technique and we zeroed down on this being the issue:

I followed his advice to use 2 towels and 2 spray downs for each panel. Follow second spray down with a dry plush towel for buff off of residue. Worked like a charm and I could feel the final towel drag on the paint: suggesting bare paint.

Awesome.

I then started to work on the roof and was happy with the results, I worked it a little heavier than recommended. I used a heavy X for each section and wiped of wet for the whole roof. I spread the product around, but this spread out was quite difficult. Most of the product would get deposited on the part that I touched the panel first with the applicator. This made the spreading out a little difficult.

Picture this: you have a small square that you are working on. You touch the panel to the left top of the square first and the start to spread the product. From the left to the right. The left side has thick wet product and towards the end of small section to the right, there’s barely any product and its already flashing, while the left most areas is still wet with product. To counter this I would take some product from the left side so to speak. Not spread, and then start spreading from right to left. Now the center of the section is the one with the least product and is flashing.

I would quickly spread as much as I could and then proceeded to wipe of. I would take little bites instead of rubbing from one end to one end. This ensured, to my eyes at least, that all product had wiped off. I then would flip over to a dry side and buff again and then grab a new towel and do a final buff.

I then took a break when I finished the roof. Placed my syringe, blue tip facing up, resting on my LC applicator pad and went for dinner. This was a 30 min break.

I came and was greeted with this:



The syringe was leaking. I had not noticed this before as I kept placing it on the stool next to me which had textured pastic and was silver/grey. It probably leaked there too but I could not see it. I now could not do anything as this had cured. I looked at my syringe and the tip was tight but the product was oozing from around the blue tip.

Unknown to me, the syringe was clearly leaking while I was checking. It had then dripped on the door that was done, so I noticed it hours later. At this point I was at 8ml remaining….this is only after doing my roof and one door………

Drops can be seen against the white pillar as a backround:



Today evening, almost 20 hours later:

A total of 10 drops on this door and the big blob on my sunroof. Not so happy with that.

Anyways, I thought I was applying it properly. When I started again after dinner, I decided to not use the product heavy as I only had 8ml left and had over 70% of the car left to coat. I was still using an X of product for each section though. What I did this time around was not wipe of heavy….I was spreading it around for 30 seconds. I never stopped once to let it cure for 60 seconds as recommended. Nor did I go over the high spots with the applicator after 60 seconds. I just worked everything I could for 30 seconds, spread out as much as I could, spread the heavy areas to cover the not so heavy areas and then wiped. From start to finish was around 45-55 seconds for each section.

I thought I had done well as I could not see any product left behind after wipe off.

Car looked great and I called it a night:

 

[emmjay]

Re: My unbiased (nightmare) review of PBL V2 and Uber Ceramic

Next day in the daytime, I took some pics and did not notice anything in the sunlight. I was happy. Later in the evening I had to run some errands and the sun was setting. I stopped the car to admire it and take some shots….This is where my jaw dropped….and not in a good way. I had streaks and residue marks everywhere!

Passenger front door, along with the drips:

Passenger rear door, not as bad but its there if you look between the handle and the orange glow:

Passenger C pillar / beltline. Look right above the beltline and you will see a dark haze:

Can’t see it. Okay, here it is zoomed in from a different angle. Right above the beltline we can see what looks like areas where the LC applicator reached before going back down.

Hood, right in the centre, dark spots:

I did not see the driver side as that was away from the indirect light of the sun and I could not see much. I could not see much on the roof either.

A point to note: The roof was done quite heavy and wiped of wet, so was the driver side front door. This was before Mr. leaky syringe.

Overall Impressions:

The product is nice and I would have had better results if I had continued working heavy and wiped of wet. This is my mistake. I got carried away after reading some replies to my other thread where people waited. I also read a thread by Mike Philips where he said most of the product will flash away by the time you start wiping/buffing and this is what I continued to do. I should have followed my gut and Andre’s advice of wiping wet as he was honest and told me about his experience working outdoors. Not a planned application in an air conditioned clean room, where there is almost zero error. Do the reviews in the real world, then we will see what happens.

Application:

Application was pretty cool. By this I mean, When buffing off, it was initially grabby. After about 30 seconds, it starts to feel slick. After about 1 min, when doing a final buff the towel just glides on the paint, i.e. Super Slick.

i would appreciate it if these coatings had more instructions and real world reviews, in real world surroundings and not temp controlled garages. I know thats a lot to ask as its a coating, but if you go by the claim that "even a first timer will find this super easy" - it would nice to take into account that many of the "first timers" dont have temp controlled garages, or any garages for that matter.

Would I buy this product again?

Yes,but in a 30cc syringe to not get stuck in the middle with a leaking syringe, lost product and working on fumes. I would work it heavy and wipe of wet due to my "Real world" conditions. Also, I would probably only use it in winter. Our winters are 20-25 degree celcius ambient temps (68-77 degrees F)

Would I recommend this product to others?

Yes. If you, like me , work in the real world, with heat and humidity, do yourself a favour and apply thick and wipe of wet. DO NOT LET IT FLASH completely. ☺

Thank you all.

Please do not take offence to anything above. This was an unbiased and very honest review.

☺

 

[Jaretr1]

Wow...very strange results. I had the exact opposite experience with PBL. It seemed to have plenty of working time, and even after I did an entire car, I found some high spots I had missed in the sun, and they wiped off with no problem. It seemed to be very forgiving.

As far as Uber, I found this a little trickier to use, for the some of the same reasons you mention, I really was struggling to gauge whether I was using to little, enough, or to much. I didnt have any problems with streaks or leaky syringes though. And on both accounts I got perfect, streak free results.

 

[asianstyles]

I am going to be applying the McKee's 37 paint coating, which is similar to the PBL coating. Hoping I don't run into similar issues. One big difference will be the temp. For me, the temp will be in the 60's to low 70's in my garage.

 

[emmjay]

Wow...very strange results. I had the exact opposite experience with PBL. It seemed to have plenty of working time, and even after I did an entire car, I found some high spots I had missed in the sun, and they wiped off with no problem. It seemed to be very forgiving.

As far as Uber, I found this a little trickier to use, for the some of the same reasons you mention, I really was struggling to gauge whether I was using to little, enough, or to much. I didnt have any problems with streaks or leaky syringes though. And on both accounts I got perfect, streak free results.

I agree, very strange results indeed. However, I feel weather and product drying too fast were my major problems.

I just could not get it to work....I have no words as to why :/

I am going to be applying the McKee's 37 paint coating, which is similar to the PBL coating. Hoping I don't run into similar issues. One big difference will be the temp. For me, the temp will be in the 60's to low 70's in my garage.

If your garage is closed completely you should be fine I think, especially in that weather.

 

[WillSports3]

What I would suggest is to get some very light finishing polish by hand and going over the high spots. It seems to remove them. As for your girlfriends car, try some PBL detailing spray over the high spots, they do come off because they're not fully cured yet and but the detailing spray has the same solvents they use on the coating.

 

[ScottB]

I don't follow directions well .... so my results and techniques are completely different than suggested. What I will offer is that with Uber, I had no issues whatsoever. After polishing, and a wipe down, I applied it with syringe to foam applicator to finish in straight lines. Very little overlap. I stayed reserved and did not over apply. You could see it flashing within a couple minutes. About 6-7 minutes after a panels application, I had my son wipe down the panel very lightly with a MF towel. Absolutely no streaks, high spots, or issues. I then let it final cure in the garage over night. We live in South Florida and average heat even in morning is 80's with high humidity.

I did learn from using the original Opti-coat coating many years back. Once you have a high spot and have to either live with it, or polish it out, you learn to control excessive product and large overlapping.

View attachment 52278

 

[BudgetPlan1]

I am going to be applying the McKee's 37 paint coating, which is similar to the PBL coating. Hoping I don't run into similar issues. One big difference will be the temp. For me, the temp will be in the 60's to low 70's in my garage.

Did a couple of cars with this in the past few weeks. Flashes pretty quick, apply the wipe off...about 80 degrees inside garage.

 

[rlmccarty2000]

I would die if I tried to put anything on my car when it is 100 degrees and 80 percent humidity. I just won't even try when conditions are that excessive. I have washed my car in 95 plus degree temp and high humidity and I soaked through three shirts with sweat. I try to wait until conditions are cooler to do any type of detailing.

 

[Kamakaz1961]

Thank you for your review. IMO this is a great learning experience so people can learn from your mistake. Sorry for the results. I used ceramic coatings once, never did again. My results were ok...but I am just a dumb old dog and will stick to my sealant/wax routine. I too had too many complications with my ceramic coating. In the end the results were good. But again, not for me. It was a great experience to say that I prefer sealant/wax over coatings. That again is just me.

 

[The Guz]

The temperature and humidity was definitely not on your side. This goes for any coating and not just PBL. I did not have an issue applying it but I applied it in November in the Souther California weather. Humidity was higher than normal last year but nothing comparable to what you experienced.

Looking at this photo you posted, it looks like you were working on a pretty large area when trying to apply the coating.

With the temperature and humidity I would recommend shrinking the work area even smaller. It will take a bit longer but should give you less of a headache. You will have to adjust the number of sprays per panel or area.

For example this would have been an example of a smaller work area. Yes there will be a little overspray but that will not be a problem. If you have the PBL detailer that would work as well to remove any excess residue.

 

[emmjay]

What I would suggest is to get some very light finishing polish by hand and going over the high spots. It seems to remove them. As for your girlfriends car, try some PBL detailing spray over the high spots, they do come off because they're not fully cured yet and but the detailing spray has the same solvents they use on the coating.

Would that not remove the coating itself? Also, once I use the fine polish, I would need to use the Paint prep spray to remove the oils right? Would that not affect the coating too? I can honestly live with it, but if something works, I don't mind giving it a shot.Any opinions about clay? It will probably marr the Honda lol.

I don't follow directions well .... so my results and techniques are completely different than suggested. What I will offer is that with Uber, I had no issues whatsoever. After polishing, and a wipe down, I applied it with syringe to foam applicator to finish in straight lines. Very little overlap. I stayed reserved and did not over apply. You could see it flashing within a couple minutes. About 6-7 minutes after a panels application, I had my son wipe down the panel very lightly with a MF towel. Absolutely no streaks, high spots, or issues. I then let it final cure in the garage over night. We live in South Florida and average heat even in morning is 80's with high humidity.


I did learn from using the original Opti-coat coating many years back. Once you have a high spot and have to either live with it, or polish it out, you learn to control excessive product and large overlapping.

View attachment 52278

Thanks Scott. To confirm, you just went straight lines in one direction and then let it be? Maybe I did spread it around a little too much. However, for me it flashed in a few seconds, not 2 mins, except for the wet areas ofcourse. I would definitely not come back 6-7 mins later to wipe if I had the product drying in seconds though. But I definitely want to try this product again. Maybe in cooler conditions. For now I will live with the "high spots" which to me is still dried up product rather than excess product. Any idea how long these high spots take to disappear?

I would die if I tried to put anything on my car when it is 100 degrees and 80 percent humidity. I just won't even try when conditions are that excessive. I have washed my car in 95 plus degree temp and high humidity and I soaked through three shirts with sweat. I try to wait until conditions are cooler to do any type of detailing.

I agree, but this is the only time I have until my next holiday sometime next year, and definitely not a week long. I am working my butt off to complete 3 cars. 2 are done, one to go. I sweat excessively all day and change my clothes 3 times minimum during and once at night after clean up and shower....so yeah. I definitely will not apply a coating in this temp range again. Lesson learned.

 

[emmjay]

Thank you for your review. IMO this is a great learning experience so people can learn from your mistake. Sorry for the results. I used ceramic coatings once, never did again. My results were ok...but I am just a dumb old dog and will stick to my sealant/wax routine. I too had too many complications with my ceramic coating. In the end the results were good. But again, not for me. It was a great experience to say that I prefer sealant/wax over coatings. That again is just me.

Thanks man! I agree, it was definitely a great experience and I love learning new things, especially with detailing. I am seriously reconsidering ever applying a coating again. To me, its not worth it for the amount of stress it induced the past 5 days. I'm supposed to be on holiday to de-stress lol. I also prefer sealants and waxes because I love touching the car and applying new stuff. Wax especially is so calming.

The temperature and humidity was definitely not on your side. This goes for any coating and not just PBL. I did not have an issue applying it but I applied it in November in the Souther California weather. Humidity was higher than normal last year but nothing comparable to what you experienced.

Looking at this photo you posted, it looks like you were working on a pretty large area when trying to apply the coating.

With the temperature and humidity I would recommend shrinking the work area even smaller. It will take a bit longer but should give you less of a headache. You will have to adjust the number of sprays per panel or area.

For example this would have been an example of a smaller work area. Yes there will be a little overspray but that will not be a problem. If you have the PBL detailer that would work as well to remove any excess residue.

Hey Guz! Thanks a lot man, appreciate your input as always. I actually felt that the area was small lol. Lesson learned though. I thought If I am applying almost 8 pumps I can do the area above and below the handle. I definitely agree the weather was horrible. Maybe if it was cooler I would have been happier. Any suggestions for cooler weather ?? LOL

I never want to let the product dry if I ever use it again. Wet wipe off seems ideal, but then again, others like yourself have said to wait for it to flash. So i really don't know.

 

[WillSports3]

As long as you work the polish slowly and constantly check, you'll be fine. Just make sure you get some kind of a waterless wash in a spray bottle and check for beading then touch up if you've polished it off with a small make up sponge in that area.

The big difference is where you are quite frankly, the temperature is definitely higher than any place in North America so unfortunately this product will give you issues unless you treat it as apply product, wipe off immediately. At your temperature, the base layer of coating that you need will already have flashed so maybe using the carpro applicator and suede method might have worked better for you.

 

[Scott@IncrediblyDetailed]

Any coating being applied at that temperature and humidity is going to give you problems. It's going to flash so quickly, get sticky and be difficult to see the high spots and also knock them down. What can help is doing the area twice, with 50% less product the second coating and instantly buffing the excess. Apply the coating as directed, then instead of wiping it off, apply a second coat, then wipe and see what happens.

 

[ScottB]

Try a light finishing polish on the high spots ... often times just a few wipes will remove the streaks and marks. You can always try a more aggressive polish if needed.

If the coating flashed that fast, I guess I would find myself applying it and buffing almost immediately panel by panel or moving car to a more temperature controlled environment if possible. We did a very light buff just enough to remove any excess, nothing like a traditional sealant removal.

It's not exactly as directed but I would think that the product left still on paint will cure over next couple hours. You could always add another coat if wanted, but most coatings are designed as one coat to my knowledge. You should be able to tell where it was applied by the feeling. It didn't get super slick initially but clearly the feeling was different than uncoated area.

 

[emmjay]

As long as you work the polish slowly and constantly check, you'll be fine. Just make sure you get some kind of a waterless wash in a spray bottle and check for beading then touch up if you've polished it off with a small make up sponge in that area.

The big difference is where you are quite frankly, the temperature is definitely higher than any place in North America so unfortunately this product will give you issues unless you treat it as apply product, wipe off immediately. At your temperature, the base layer of coating that you need will already have flashed so maybe using the carpro applicator and suede method might have worked better for you.

Thanks for the advice man. Unfortunately I have no coating left. I bought both the PBL v2 and Uber along with the PBL Detailer and booster, applicators, paint prep etc. This was then shipped to Dubai. So I took a pretty big hit financially for all this. Maybe I will wait a couple months and order more.

Any coating being applied at that temperature and humidity is going to give you problems. It's going to flash so quickly, get sticky and be difficult to see the high spots and also knock them down. What can help is doing the area twice, with 50% less product the second coating and instantly buffing the excess. Apply the coating as directed, then instead of wiping it off, apply a second coat, then wipe and see what happens.

I will definitely keep this in mind for next time, thank you so much for the advice!

Try a light finishing polish on the high spots ... often times just a few wipes will remove the streaks and marks. You can always try a more aggressive polish if needed.

If the coating flashed that fast, I guess I would find myself applying it and buffing almost immediately panel by panel or moving car to a more temperature controlled environment if possible. We did a very light buff just enough to remove any excess, nothing like a traditional sealant removal.

It's not exactly as directed but I would think that the product left still on paint will cure over next couple hours. You could always add another coat if wanted, but most coatings are designed as one coat to my knowledge. You should be able to tell where it was applied by the feeling. It didn't get super slick initially but clearly the feeling was different than uncoated area.

Thanks again! I am just a little lost, finishing polish with a polisher or by hand and an poly foam applicator?

Only thing is I have no more coating, so if it does come off I have nothing left to top with. Maybe ill just live it for now and order some more in a couple months and redo the car. By then it should be a lot cooler too!

Would your advice for apply and wipe off be the same if it was cooler? Winters here tend to be in 70 range at night with plenty of wind. I feel the wind would also accelerate the curing time?

What could I do differently if I do buy more product and apply during "winter" (lol)

P.S.

Its actually been more than 2 days now since application.

I actually felt the coated area get slicker as I finished buffing off. Not immediately but a couple minutes later when doing the final wipe, the towel just glided!

Thank you!

 

[ScottB]

On a high spot, since you don't really know how much extra is on the paint, you want to start least aggressive and move more aggressive as needed. We don't want to remove all of the coating, just the over application. So a hand polish with a light polish is a great way to start. Moving to machine or aggressive buffer as needed. Slow and measure results. Once the coating has cured, its pretty darn hard so you might need a little more bite or machine now.

If you choose to reuse it, and I highly suggest the Uber coating specifically, I would play with it a little in your environment. I have learned over many years and trial/error that the manufacturers direction is "ideal" and not always what works for me in my environment. I personally would apply it to a test panel, watch how fast it flashes and then lightly buff (almost gliding). If the flashing takes two minutes then see if you can apply a panel, then buff the previous panel. Remember once you get good at application (thin/light/even) you really wont have many high spots or areas needing buffing. Certainly you can lightly wipe the area as desired, but the key to coatings is really to learn just how thin to apply to protect and flash essentially with no residue.

 

[emmjay]

On a high spot, since you don't really know how much extra is on the paint, you want to start least aggressive and move more aggressive as needed. We don't want to remove all of the coating, just the over application. So a hand polish with a light polish is a great way to start. Moving to machine or aggressive buffer as needed. Slow and measure results. Once the coating has cured, its pretty darn hard so you might need a little more bite or machine now.

If you choose to reuse it, and I highly suggest the Uber coating specifically, I would play with it a little in your environment. I have learned over many years and trial/error that the manufacturers direction is "ideal" and not always what works for me in my environment. I personally would apply it to a test panel, watch how fast it flashes and then lightly buff (almost gliding). If the flashing takes two minutes then see if you can apply a panel, then buff the previous panel. Remember once you get good at application (thin/light/even) you really wont have many high spots or areas needing buffing. Certainly you can lightly wipe the area as desired, but the key to coatings is really to learn just how thin to apply to protect and flash essentially with no residue.

Thank you so much man, I really appreciate the advise and the details. I will definitely give this a shot! I will probably use my polishing pal with a white pad and UP/M205 and see where that takes me. Would I need IPA or WG paint prep after to remove the oils and stuff?

On another note, any tips on how to remove the big thick cured coating from the sunroof? I can actually feel it as its a thick extra layer.