Need advice with polishing black car

[boostgst]

I need some professional advice, Not sure if this is the right place for this question but here it goes.
I'm gonna be working on a 2012 black Honda accord. I ran a test spot using M205 on a orange pad with a PC. cleaned up nice and removed all swirls and scratches. when I hit it with the brinkmann light, Deep in the paint I can see what resembles fish scales but very small. hundreds of them and some look like very small half circles. So I switched up pads and used a white pad with the M205. same problem. Also tried V36 by CG white and orange pad and same problem. What am i doing wrong? Also posted some pictures of what I have and would appreciate which products to use and what follow up steps.
Car was clay'd using CG light clay, pads are from CG. i also have a makita rotary if needed. Thanks In advance
here is what I have. White pad is not pictured

This pic shows the swirls and scratches.

Picture below shows and after pic after 2 passes with M205. Fish scales are not visible

 

[wdmaccord]

Not seeing the fish scales you are referring to? From your pic, the paint looks pretty good. Have you tried polishing with a white pad? Maybe what you see are just some micro scratches from the compound that a polish would remove?

 

[boostgst]

Not seeing the fish scales you are referring to? From your pic, the paint looks pretty good. Have you tried polishing with a white pad? Maybe what you see are just some micro scratches from the compound that a polish would remove?

This was the result of a second pass with a white pad. fish scales are too small for the camera to capture. you can only see them with the brinkmann light. very small half circles and circles

 

[sharpreflection]

Are you using a porter cable or a rotary? It sounds like you have extremely soft paint And you're using too aggressive and not working 205 long enough. Also could be that you have a super finicky paint for paints like that but I've encountered a use menzerna Super intensive polish on a white or orange because it has a super long working time allows you to break down the polish fine enough, Then I would use 3m ultrafine or menzerna super finish.

 

[sharpreflection]

Also what speed are you using on your machine?

 

[hernandez.art13]

Just trying to help another fellow member: I not sure of the fish scales your talking about.

View attachment 20520

View attachment 20521

^ I tried zooming it in, but I still am still note sure what your specifically talking about.

 

[BayAreaTech]

I believe I know what your talking about. Today my cousin dropped off he's old Chevy SS black truck hood. It was beat so went straight to m101 with optimum MF pads and the result was almost flawless and to some it could be LSP ready, actually first time using M101 but the results were incredible.

Now I did however have very slight haze that my eyes could catch, I just ran out of 205..so I had to use Megs 82 which is a DAT polish. I started with a tangerine pad and soon realized I was working backwards because the polishing was leaving more tiny scratches and slight haze. I have a black finishing pad that switched to and that left almost a flawless finish, but after further inspection, I noticed what looked like haze but like you described they looked like tiny scales, to my eyes they look deep deep in the paint.

I tried taking a pic but it's to dark now, I will take some in the morning outside to see if we have the same problem. Mine however are not random or scattered, but instead they make 2 rows of what I speak of that run parallel to each other 1' apart off each other.....Could be a flaw that is now present from polishing? pics will follow.

 

[boostgst]

Just trying to help another fellow member: I not sure of the fish scales your talking about.

View attachment 20520

View attachment 20521

^ I tried zooming it in, but I still am still note sure what your specifically talking about.

It's hard for the camera to capture them. I'm sure there is another term for this issue, I'm calling it fish-scales because they resemble them. I'm guessing they're swirls. here's 2 better pictures. the lens captured some of them in color but there are allot more that the lens didn't capture.

 

[boostgst]

Finally captured some of the swirls with my Iphone. My camera wasn't auto focusing.
Again this is just portions of the damage caused by the pad. Its evenly damaged. In person they look like very small half circles or fish scales.
This was done with an Orange pad using m205, 6 speed on a porter DA. I saw the damage and switched to a white pad using M205 and eventually tried V36 and these are the results

 

[boostgst]

I believe I know what your talking about. Today my cousin dropped off he's old Chevy SS black truck hood. It was beat so went straight to m101 with optimum MF pads and the result was almost flawless and to some it could be LSP ready, actually first time using M101 but the results were incredible.

Now I did however have very slight haze that my eyes could catch, I just ran out of 205..so I had to use Megs 82 which is a DAT polish. I started with a tangerine pad and soon realized I was working backwards because the polishing was leaving more tiny scratches and slight haze. I have a black finishing pad that switched to and that left almost a flawless finish, but after further inspection, I noticed what looked like haze but like you described they looked like tiny scales, to my eyes they look deep deep in the paint.

I tried taking a pic but it's to dark now, I will take some in the morning outside to see if we have the same problem. Mine however are not random or scattered, but instead they make 2 rows of what I speak of that run parallel to each other 1' apart off each other.....Could be a flaw that is now present from polishing? pics will follow.

Bingo! You have to look deep to see them. With the naked eye it looks flawless as you can see by the first picture, but looking deep into it you can see the tiny scales.

 

[boostgst]

looks Flawless with the naked eye.

here is the same area with different lighting and auto-focus to capture the small stuff.

 

[boostgst]

Are you using a porter cable or a rotary? It sounds like you have extremely soft paint And you're using too aggressive and not working 205 long enough. Also could be that you have a super finicky paint for paints like that but I've encountered a use menzerna Super intensive polish on a white or orange because it has a super long working time allows you to break down the polish fine enough, Then I would use 3m ultrafine or menzerna super finish.

I'm using a Porter cable on speed 6. Honda accords are known to have soft paint. I used 3 pea size drops.

 

[BayAreaTech]

looks Flawless with the naked eye.

here is the same area with different lighting and auto-focus to capture the small stuff.

Your second up close pic looks like what the Tangerine pad was leaving behind on my hood, the black pad I used cleaned that up quick on speed 4 for me.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

What you're seeing isn't Fish Scales, these are at their core scratches from the abrasives being moved over the surface by a dual action polisher.

People use three different terms or words to describe these types of dual action polisher/abrasive induced scratches, they all refer to the same thing and what you're calling fish scales.

• Micro-marring
• DA Haze
• Tick Marks

I cropped out one of your pictures and uploaded it to your free gallery here on AGO becuase Photobucket hosted pictures tend to dissapear over time.

I describe, show pictures or and explain how to remove these types of defects in my how-to book as well as most all the other common paint defects.

Detailing How-To Book and Detailing How-To E-book by Mike Phillips


Here you go...

There are pictures here also and the below article can be found in my article list under,


Swirls, Scratches, Water Spots, RIDS, Rock Chips, Imprint Chips


The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls and Micro-Marring


I have a second article on this topic too and here's a portion of the article,

The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls, Micro-Marring, DA Haze & Tick Marks



Micro-Marring - Tick-Marks - DA-Haze

These three terms are pretty much the accepted terms for a scratch pattern left in some paints from the oscillating and rotating action from a compound or polish and a buffing pad when applied using a DA Polisher.

Unlike Cobweb swirls or Rotary Buffer Swirls, the scratch pattern instilled by a dual action polisher is made up of millions of tiny scratches, some are curved or circular but some are straight, like a small tick mark you would make with a pencil if you were keeping track of a count of some type.

Tick Marks are a sign that either the paint is on the soft side, so easily scratched or the pad and compound or polish you're using are too aggressive to finish out without leaving a mark.

In most cases Tick Marks can be removed by re-polishing with a different pad and product combination.

:dunno:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'm using a Porter cable on speed 6. Honda accords are known to have soft paint. I used 3 pea size drops.

You need to get a different polish. M205 is a great polish but tends to leave micro-marring or DA Haze when used with a dual action polisher on soft paints. It works great on most paint systems but not all paint systems.


Any of these with a soft finishing pad will remove the tick marks and leave you a flawless finish ready for wax.


Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish
Sonax Nano Polish
Optimum Finish Polish
Menzerna SF 4000
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze
Blackfire SRC Polish


This car had micro-marring when it came to Autogeek, my write-up shows how we removed it....

1970 1/2 Camaro - Show Car Finish by Pinnacle - Modeled by Amy



From Post # 13 of the above thread.


Micro-marring also called Tick Marks or DA Haze
The millions of tiny, small scratches highlighted by the Brinkmann Swirl Finder Light are caused by improperly worked abrasives when using a DA Polisher like the Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's G110v2, Griot's Garage 6" ROP or Shurhold DA Polisher. These types of scratches are through out the entire car but you can really only see them on the black stripes not the metallic green paint. The point is that even though your eyes can't see them on the lighter colors they still cloud and dull the finish and keep you from seeing the beautiful color and/or metallic finish under the clear. These have to go!

After

Nicole had NEVER machine polished a car before in her life, here she is to show all the rest of you guys how it's done...


Here's Nicole priming her pad...

How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher

A little hands-on training to get a feel for how hard to push down, how fast or s-l-o-w-l-y to move the DA Polisher and the pattern to use for consistent, repeatable results...

With the right polish, wax and good technique your Honda can look like this...

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

You might even go on to win a few prizes!


Best of Show Win! - 1970 1/2 Camaro



:xyxthumbs:

 

[boostgst]

You might even go on to win a few prizes!


Best of Show Win! - 1970 1/2 Camaro



:xyxthumbs:

Beautiful car! Perfect color combination and great detail work. Great job.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Beautiful car! Perfect color combination and great detail work. Great job.

I owned a black pearl Honda Pilot and while the paint is soft, that does make it easy to correct.

 

[boostgst]

You need to get a different polish. M205 is a great polish but tends to leave micro-marring or DA Haze when used with a dual action polisher on soft paints. It works great on most paint systems but not all paint systems.


Any of these with a soft finishing pad will remove the tick marks and leave you a flawless finish ready for wax.


Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish
Sonax Nano Polish
Optimum Finish Polish
Menzerna SF 4000
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze
Blackfire SRC Polish


This car had micro-marring when it came to Autogeek, my write-up shows how we removed it....

1970 1/2 Camaro - Show Car Finish by Pinnacle - Modeled by Amy



From Post # 13 of the above thread.


Micro-marring also called Tick Marks or DA Haze
The millions of tiny, small scratches highlighted by the Brinkmann Swirl Finder Light are caused by improperly worked abrasives when using a DA Polisher like the Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's G110v2, Griot's Garage 6" ROP or Shurhold DA Polisher. These types of scratches are through out the entire car but you can really only see them on the black stripes not the metallic green paint. The point is that even though your eyes can't see them on the lighter colors they still cloud and dull the finish and keep you from seeing the beautiful color and/or metallic finish under the clear. These have to go!

After

Nicole had NEVER machine polished a car before in her life, here she is to show all the rest of you guys how it's done...


Here's Nicole priming her pad...

How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher

A little hands-on training to get a feel for how hard to push down, how fast or s-l-o-w-l-y to move the DA Polisher and the pattern to use for consistent, repeatable results...

With the right polish, wax and good technique your Honda can look like this...

:xyxthumbs:

Thank you. This is exactly what I have. Tick marks! I knew there was a correct term for them. Question, Will the soft paint finishing polishes you mentioned above remove random swirls and minor scratches? Or should I use M205 to remove larger scratches and move on to the soft paint polish to remove the Tick marks left by the M205? God I hate the brinkmann light. Thank you for the detailed reply, I really appreciate your help. I learned allot from your reply. this is the first time I work with paint this soft and you really helped me. Where can i find the book and can I download it to my Ipad? I would like to purchase one. Thanks again

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thank you. This is exactly what I have. Tick marks! I knew there was a correct term for them.

That's a term a couple of chemist friends of mine coined, the rest of us blue collar working class dogs always used micro-marring or DA Haze.

Words mean things... just as any lawyer...

Question, Will the soft paint finishing polishes you mentioned above remove random swirls and minor scratches? Or should I use M205 to remove larger scratches and move on to the soft paint polish to remove the Tick marks left by the M205?

Yes to some degree, working on soft paint they'll do a pretty good job. The Sonax probably offers the most cut out of these "Fine Cut Polishes.


Word Definitions - Compounds, Polishes, Glazes, Paint Cleaners and Waxes

God I hate the brinkmann light.

We all have a love/hate relationship for this amazing tool. It's not called the Cruel Master for nothing...

Thank you for the detailed reply, I really appreciate your help. I learned allot from your reply. this is the first time I work with paint this soft and you really helped me.

Whereas on most forums you get one-liners or told to use the search button, we practice actually posting real information.

Where can i find the book and can I download it to my Ipad? I would like to purchase one. Thanks again

The link is in my Sig Line and I've copied and pasted it below,

Detailing How-To Book and Detailing How-To E-book by Mike Phillips