Need help breaking into 2005 C6 Corvette Clearcoat

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anarchyx914

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Hi Everyone,

This is my first post, and I just want to say, this is a great forum for detailing enthusiasts and newbies alike!

I am brand new to the world of compounding myself. I purchased the Porter Cable 7424XP and Poorboys SSR1 and SSR2.5.

I had great results with these on my 2011 Mustang GT, however, on my fathers corvette (I was going to buff it for his birthday) it doesn't seem to do anything to swirl marks.

I am currently trying to get a good shot of the car w/ my camera, but having bad luck, so I will do my best to explain what is going on without having pictures at the moment.

I have currently made about 3 rounds with the CCS Orange pad on speed setting 6 using Poorboys SSR2.5. When I mean "rounds" i am talking about 3 full attempts at buffing the scratches out with about 6 section passes each as per Mike's Detailing DVD. I can see its removing about 1/5th of the scratches, its basically taking "chunks" out of the swirls. So now you dont see a solid circle of swirling, you see bits and pieces of it missing.

I am a total novice at buffing, so I was maybe thinking that bumping up to Poorboy's SSR3 with the Yellow pad would yield better results? I could probably remove more scratches on the car if I made like 10 passes on the vehicle section, but that would take me forever. I also read on the forums using the search feature that corvettes have super hard clearcoats, so anyone who has worked on them, I would love to hear some input!

I'm just a bit discouraged considering the amount of money I spent on the unit and the compounds, however, I am not willing to give up!

I will try to post some pictures later, I read Mikes post on how to take good snaps of scratches, however, my camera stinks!

Thanks in advance for any advice in aiding me. If you need anymore info I will be happy to post it!
 
My technique im using (tried to mimic mike's as much as possible):

Repeated the steps bellow approx 3 times on the same area hoping it would remove the scratches. These scratches are very fine scratches, cannot even feel them with my fingernail, and they are very difficult to see. You have to be in the perfect light looking diagonally across the paint to see them.

- 1 sprits on the pad with pad conditioner.
- Made an "X" with the poorboys SSR2.5 for first pass.
- Used a nickle sized amount for additional passes.
- Made 6 total section passes with very slow arm movement, about 10-15lbs of downward pressure.
- Made absolutely sure the pad was rotating by utilizing the "Black Mark" method.
- Using the Orange CCS Pad with a speed setting of 5. Also tried speed 6 with no luck as well.
- Waited for product to dust slightly as it says on the instructions to indicate it's breaking down.
- Followed up with Poorboys SSR1 to clean up.
- Used in the cool shade of my garage at approx 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

Still about 4/5 of the scratches remain.
 
I'm a bit of a newb, but from what I've read Corvette's tend to have very hard clearcoats. Maybe stepping up to a Flex DA would help? I've been told that Surbuf pads are more aggressive than the orange LC pads, perhaps give those a try? I've never worked on a Corvette before, so if someone with more experience chimes in maybe they could confirm or refute my suggestions.
 
anarchyx914 said:
Hi Everyone,

This is my first post, and I just want to say, this is a great forum for detailing enthusiasts and newbies alike!

I am brand new to the world of compounding myself. I purchased the Porter Cable 7424XP and Poorboys SSR1 and SSR2.5.

I had great results with these on my 2011 Mustang GT, however, on my fathers corvette (I was going to buff it for his birthday) it doesn't seem to do anything to swirl marks.

I am currently trying to get a good shot of the car w/ my camera, but having bad luck, so I will do my best to explain what is going on without having pictures at the moment.

I have currently made about 3 rounds with the CCS Orange pad on speed setting 6 using Poorboys SSR2.5. When I mean "rounds" i am talking about 3 full attempts at buffing the scratches out with about 6 section passes each as per Mike's Detailing DVD. I can see its removing about 1/5th of the scratches, its basically taking "chunks" out of the swirls. So now you dont see a solid circle of swirling, you see bits and pieces of it missing.

I am a total novice at buffing, so I was maybe thinking that bumping up to Poorboy's SSR3 with the Yellow pad would yield better results? I could probably remove more scratches on the car if I made like 10 passes on the vehicle section, but that would take me forever. I also read on the forums using the search feature that corvettes have super hard clearcoats, so anyone who has worked on them, I would love to hear some input!

I'm just a bit discouraged considering the amount of money I spent on the unit and the compounds, however, I am not willing to give up!

I will try to post some pictures later, I read Mikes post on how to take good snaps of scratches, however, my camera stinks!

Thanks in advance for any advice in aiding me. If you need anymore info I will be happy to post it!
Click to expand...


Hey man, welcome!

Dont feel too bad, vettes have SUPER hard paint which is why you're having so much trouble.

What size pad are you using? Personally..i prefer flat pads over CCS...i feel they correct better especially with a PC...now ive heard CCS work good with a flex but since i too have a PC...i like the flats...also the smaller size pad you have the more condensed the correctional power will be..i.e a 4" pad has the machines power more focused than a 7" pad.

I've seen people have really good luck using Surbuf pads on hard paint....they do leave light hazing that you'll have to polish out after...but it takes the bulk out.

Check out this thread http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ch-red-w-deep-swirls-rids-105-205-fuzion.html

Also...are you sure you're not being left with just RIDS (do a search on it if you don't know what im talking about)...if they're quite deep you may not be able to remove them with just a PC...but pics would help.


good luck!
 
Poorboys isn't going to cut it with the vette clear coat and I am very surprised it worked on your Mustang since it has hard clear coat also. I am willing to bet if you did some type of IPA or solvent wipe down the swirls would return. Pick up some Meguiars 105 and 205 and you will be good to go up to a point.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Poorboys isn't going to cut it with the vette clear coat and I am very surprised it worked on your Mustang since it has hard clear coat also. I am willing to bet if you did some type of IPA or solvent wipe down the swirls would return. Pick up some Meguiars 105 and 205 and you will be good to go up to a point.
Click to expand...

My mustang had really small fine swirls. The car is basically brand new, and I think somehow the dealer washed it and they didn't wash it properly with all the best techniques. Lambs wool mit, grit guard, foamer, etc.

I could try some Meguiars 105, I just heard that it drys out really quick in just like 1 or 2 passes. I was kind of afraid to use something that breaks down that quick on me since I'm a novice.

I also tried some Meguiars Ultimate Compound, and didnt have any luck w/ that either. Went to the local auto store and picked it up.

I'll likely be placing another order with AG this weekend. I'm going to probably try a few smaller pads and possibly some more aggressive compound like the Meguiars 105.

I really like poorboys products, you guys dont think the SSR3 would do the trick w/ a yellow pad maybe?
 
Nope, Poorboys is not going to do it. Get yourself some 5.5 inch pads, 105 and 205. The pads I would get are the completely flat ones in the colors of orange, white, and black. You need to understand on harder clear coats making one pass normally will not correct the defects. If the products and pads are used correctly you should see a big difference in the finish. Just make sure you properly prime your pads with 105 and 205 and you should be good to go. Also keep in mind this is not going to be a short process, it will take some time to do correctly.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Nope, Poorboys is not going to do it. Get yourself some 5.5 inch pads, 105 and 205. The pads I would get are the completely flat ones in the colors of orange, white, and black. You need to understand on harder clear coats making one pass normally will not correct the defects. If the products and pads are used correctly you should see a big difference in the finish. Just make sure you properly prime your pads with 105 and 205 and you should be good to go. Also keep in mind this is not going to be a short process, it will take some time to do correctly.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, it will take time. Another fan of flat pads i see :dblthumb2:.

I personally havent used the Surbuf pads but that write up i left a link to isnt the only one ive seen where Surbuf really put a good cut on hard clear coat. So it's up to you whether you give it a go or not. I agree too with the 105/205...105 will dust like hell but it gives a good cut and finishes really well for a compound...you'll like it...just dont get too mad at the dust lol. 205 is one of my favorite products...talk about leaving a beautiful finish. I can't say how they measure up to PB's cause ive never tried them, but Megs 105/205 combo are my go to twins :). You won't be disappointed...just takes patience and persistence.:buffing:
 
Menzerna SIP and Nano or Wolfgang TSR and FG are other great polishes for the Vettes.
 
anarchyx914 said:
Hi Everyone,
Click to expand...

wavey.gif



anarchyx914 said:
I could probably remove more scratches on the car if I made like 10 passes on the vehicle section, but that would take me forever.
Click to expand...

Detailing isn't quick & easy. Detailing is a "labor of love".


anarchyx914 said:
you see bits and pieces of it missing.
Click to expand...


:D



 
anarchyx914 said:
I'll likely be placing another order with AG this weekend. I'm going to probably try a few smaller pads and possibly some more aggressive compound like the Meguiars 105.

I really like poorboys products, you guys dont think the SSR3 would do the trick w/ a yellow pad maybe?
Click to expand...

I don't know why the other posters are telling you that SSR3 won't work--it will. The problem is today it is old, rocks-in-a-bottle technology. SSR3 will at a minimum leave hazing and may leave some pigtails depending how you work it.

Today there are plenty of more advanced abrasives (including Poorboy's SYN 1 which I've seen talked about here but I don't think is available) like M105/205, the Menzerna polishes for ceramic clears (or PowerGloss), perhaps the Wolfgang swirl removers, and a few others that we don't talk about here, that are very aggressive but finish out well, that I'd pick before SSR3.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I don't know why the other posters are telling you that SSR3 won't work--it will. The problem is today it is old, rocks-in-a-bottle technology. SSR3 will at a minimum leave hazing and may leave some pigtails depending how you work it.

Today there are plenty of more advanced abrasives (including Poorboy's SYN 1 which I've seen talked about here but I don't think is available) like M105/205, the Menzerna polishes for ceramic clears (or PowerGloss), perhaps the Wolfgang swirl removers, and a few others that we don't talk about here, that are very aggressive but finish out well, that I'd pick before SSR3.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input! I wasn't aware that the poorboys products were dated. I will look into getting one of the aforementioned products above. I'd rather spend a few bucks extra and get the job done correctly.

I have SSR1 and Poorboys Pro Polish as well. Would you recommend I replace them for the final polishing step on top of one of the products that you mentioned? The SSR1 is a very mild abrasive polish, and the poorboys pro polish is only a polish w/ no abrasives.
 
Also, keep in mind i'm a newbie. I dont mind spending extra money for something that would be easier (and somewhat idiot proof) for me. :)

I was basing all my purchasing decisions off of what the site seemed to recommend :/
 
anarchyx914 said:
Thanks for your input! I wasn't aware that the poorboys products were dated. I will look into getting one of the aforementioned products above. I'd rather spend a few bucks extra and get the job done correctly.

I have SSR1 and Poorboys Pro Polish as well. Would you recommend I replace them for the final polishing step on top of one of the products that you mentioned? The SSR1 is a very mild abrasive polish, and the poorboys pro polish is only a polish w/ no abrasives.
Click to expand...
Get some Menz 85rd for your final polish if your looking for that extra bling.:buffing:
 
anarchyx914 said:
Thanks for your input! I wasn't aware that the poorboys products were dated. I will look into getting one of the aforementioned products above. I'd rather spend a few bucks extra and get the job done correctly.

I have SSR1 and Poorboys Pro Polish as well. Would you recommend I replace them for the final polishing step on top of one of the products that you mentioned? The SSR1 is a very mild abrasive polish, and the poorboys pro polish is only a polish w/ no abrasives.
Click to expand...

I haven't used the newer versions of SSR1 & 2 (I have the pink and turquoise), or the new Pro Polish, I was primarily referring to the SSR3 which really is an old-school compound. The newer SMAT abrasives are really a different animal. Speaking of that you might also want to try the new Optimum Hyper Compound Spray.
 
Like you, I started out with Poorboys SSR polishes. They are...ok. It wasn't until I started working with menzerna and meguiars polishes that I really started getting some great results. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge Poorboys fan and all their products are great, but I don't really use my SSR polishes anymore because they just weren't giving me the results I was looking for.

I noticed you said you were afraid of using M105 because you were afraid of it breaking down too fast. The thing with M105/M205 is that they do not break down. Both of those polishes have non diminishing abrasives, meaning you can add more, stop early etc. It's a little different.

My advice is to pick up the 8oz bottles AG sells of 105 and 205 just to try them out. I think theyre like 7.99 or 8.99 or something so it won't break your bank in case you don't like them. Always follow 105 with 205, or you could try menzerna PO85RD to finish with on a finishing pad. I get amazing results with that combo.

I'm still pretty new at this too, but it takes time (and money) to figure out what works best for you.
 
anarchyx914 said:
Hi Everyone,

This is my first post, and I just want to say, this is a great forum for detailing enthusiasts and newbies alike!
Click to expand...

Thank you for the kind words, everyone here on the forum works together to create a family friendly, fun and helpful forum.


anarchyx914 said:
I am brand new to the world of compounding myself.

I can see its removing about 1/5th of the scratches, its basically taking "chunks" out of the swirls. So now you dont see a solid circle of swirling, you see bits and pieces of it missing.
Click to expand...


Let's first make sure you're not talking about RIDS.

RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term...

Mike Phillips said:
Random Isolated Deeper Scratches. These type of scratches come from normal wear & tear and there is no pattern to them. RIDS are like Tracers in that they are deeper scratches that show up after the shallow scratches have first been removed through a machine or hand buffing process, usually with a compound or paint cleaner. After the shallow swirls and scratches have been removed, any deeper scratches that remain will now show up like a Sore-Thumb to your eyes because there are no longer thousands of lighter, more shallow scratches camouflaging them.
Click to expand...


If you're removing the "majority of below surface defects, then maybe all you're seeing now are the deeper defects left behind, if so these are RIDS and while it's noble to seek to create a 100% flawless finish, I always ask myself...

How did this car get so bad in the first place?

And if how the car got so bad in the first place isn't going to change, this means it's going to get the same treatment when I return the car to the owner and that means more scratches. (If you're going to be it's new caretaker then "things" are going to change).

So why remove 100% of all the swirls and scratches if it's just going to get them again? Keep in mind, removing more and more swirls and scratches means removing more and more clear coat paint. All the UV protection for the basecoat is in the clear coat...

For Daily Drivers, aim for Very Good, not perfect. Aiming for perfection might be in your blood but know where to draw the line.

If they are NOT RIDS then you can keep getting after them but maybe consider getting some M105


jahman said:
I noticed you said you were afraid of using M105 because you were afraid of it breaking down too fast.

The thing with M105/M205 is that they do not break down. Both of those polishes have non diminishing abrasives, meaning you can add more, stop early etc. It's a little different.
Click to expand...

Correct.

M105 and a number of other products use SMAT, that is Super Micro Abrasive Technology and its much different than diminishing abrasive technology.

Read through these two articles, lots of information in both of them... they can always be found in my "article list".

Compounds - Polishes - Paint Cleaners - Cleaner/Polishes - Pure Polishes - Glazes
The SMAT Pack - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products...
The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!




:xyxthumbs:
 
I'm going to try to get the M105 and M205 and give that a shot.

I have learned to absolutely baby my cars by reading all the great information here.

95% of the damage on the vehicle must've been from the previous owner, or dealer "sandpaper washings".

I soak the car, then foam it, then wash using the combination of the foamer and my wookies fist mit while using the 2 buckets with grit guards in them. Also, I have the master blaster dryer for it. I do everything I can to try not to put additional micro scratches in it.

I read your detailed post explaining RIDS and while my dads vette does have a few of those, the ones I was having problems with were just small swirls.

I just dont think the SSR2.5 has the "cut" I need along with the orange pad. Either that or its probably my novice technique.

I'll be placing an order for one of the yellow pads as well as some of the M105 and M205 at everyones recommendations.

Thank you all so much for your help!
 
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