Need help on method and chemical selection- single stage paint rejuvenation

[Bavarian-Cream]

For a little background, I have detailing experience with DA buffers and lots of chemicals, but nothing extensive just basic wax and light polish experience.

I recently purchased a 1988 BMW M5 that is in desperate need of attention , im not looking for perfection nor do I expect it , but would like to make it as presentable as possible.

It has single stage factory black paint, has lots of swirls , scratches ,tree sap and a weird condition on the hood that looks like tiny cracks in the paint only on the hood which I have photographed.

*I need advice on product selection and a method to tackle this* any help is greatly appreciated -thank you in advance.

this is what I was thinking

1. clay bar

2. meguiars mirror glaze #7 - with the microfiber hand method outlined by mike Phillips- to rejuvenate it and impregnate it with some oil. let it sit on for a day in my garage

3. ? a product to remove the heavier scratches or atleast lighten em up a bit

4.? a good swirl remover to remove any swirls

5. meguiars high tech yellow #26 I already have some

advice on products for #3 and #4 would help me out

which pads should I use for #3 #4 & #5

and what should I use to remove tree sap from single stage paint?

I will be using a dewalt DA buffer , it will rotate so I will be able to remove swirls.

Mike
port st lucie FL

the first picture is the condition on the hood

 

[t5er]

Is that a Canadian M5 or a 535is with shadowline? I just sold my black on black e28 last week after 10 years of ownership. It was a tough decision.

About a week before I sold it I followed Mike's guide to Megs #7. I used the entire bottle. I thought it made a huge difference, so I'd definitely recommend you follow steps 1 & 2 on your list, in fact maybe it should be 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 2, 2, 5

For now, I'd skip 3 and just try to correct swirls with a medium compound. If it's anything like the factory paint on mine, you'll find it very easy to correct. I got mine looking great with an Griot's orange cutting pad and Griot's Machine Polish 3, which I think has about the same cut as Megs 205 but is diminishing.


edit - just saw it's an M5. Score! Tell me about the find. Are you on mye28.com?

 

[oldmodman]

On my old single stage white Toyota I followed Mike's method.

With a couple of exceptions. I hand rubbed the Megs #7 in and let it sit overnight. And I repeated it quite a few times. Until the paint was not absorbing anymore. Than I just polished as I would any other paint.

Naturally, before I started I washed the paint, clayed, and decontaminated with Iron-X too.

 

[Bavarian-Cream]

So megs #7 for sure

it really has a lot of deep scratches that I want to get out as best as possible ,
so griots would work, any other input on products , pads or sap removal ? the amount of products and pads to purchase here from the site are overwhelming, are there any specific products formulated for single stage?

T5er: im not on mye28 yet I want to clean the car up first and then post the process and the story you'll see it on there

 

[cardaddy]

Wow... that puppy is trashed! Yes yes yes on the #7, lots of it. The test spot will tell ya', but I'd say you start with white and orange flats (or CCS for that matter). Many would say 105 perhaps, and if you have some mineral oil/baby oil you can make it work. If not, it's like one pass, wipe it off, more #7, wipe it off, then more 105.

If you go to 101 you can do several section passes.

Again both of those you'd use white, orange, and possibly yellow pads. If it's soft yellow will leave pretty good haze, but 205 or UP will help that out.

Thinking about it... why not just go for Ultimate Polish and orange and yellow pads. It'll work for a LONG time and does an excellent job. Both the Ultimate compound and polish products have a decent amount of polishing oils in them (which is what your adding with the #7) so it's a natural fit.

That black is going to use a LOT of pads no matter which ones you end up with. I'd suggest 6 of each on the ones you end up compounding with. Plus perhaps 6 of the ones above that cut. For instance if you use yellow, then do orange as well. If orange, then white. The thing about white and blue (being in the middle) is they can get dual duty both compounding and polishing. I have more of them (white), in different styles, than any others.

Once you move to polishing you don't need as many pads. If resting between, and allowing them to dry well (overnight) between using you could say get 3 blue and 3 black giving you the best of both worlds. It's possible to polish an entire car with 3 pads, although not non-stop (if one doesn't get dried completely).

Finally, you might do well to try the MF pads and D300 or D151. The MF pads will work a lot longer than foam pads. Not just a little longer but a LOT longer. If you have plenty of compressed air, clean them after every section pass, and DON'T over heat them, (by rotating a warm one out for a cool one) you can do an entire car with 4 very easily. (I've done with only 2 but had to stop and wait some for the middle to cool down.) Not sure though about MF on that single stage, especially if it's soft!!!

Bottom line is you'll need several pads and do a test spot. Matter of fact, I'd do several spots. Use different pads, different products. Write down your results and keep your process the same. (Same priming, same pressure, same speed, amount of section passes, etc.) It's amazing how differently one compound will work from one pad to another.

Keeps us posted on that one, I bet it's going to be a GREAT turnaround!

 

[Bavarian-Cream]

should I put the #7 on by hand with a microfiber or DA polisher?

so it looks like m105 with yellow or orange
then m205 with white or blue

what would the baby oil/ mineral oil be used for with the m105??

I looked for "ultimate compound and polish" on this sites store, but I couldn't find it. is there a part or item number for it?

any idea on tree sap removal?

 

[t5er]

should I put the #7 on by hand with a microfiber or DA polisher?

By hand with a microfiber. Lots of them (maybe 8) They will be heavily soiled by black paint by the time you are done so i wouldn't use them for beauty work after that

so it looks like m105 with yellow or orange
then m205 with white or blue

I wouldn't be so fast to get the biggest hammer AKA 105 and a yellow pad. See how a mild correction works first, you want to leave as much paint on that car as you can. The Orange and Ultimate Compound is probably the most you'd need for the heavy stuff. I found the black paint on my e28 to be very soft and correctable. M205 pairs with white, but you may not need a two step process. Blue would be for wax or sealant.

what would the baby oil/ mineral oil be used for with the m105??

M105 dusts a lot and dries fast too. The suggestion to use M300 or Ultimate Compound is because of the long working time. Both those compounds are a little more "wet" and let the user work the polish over the paint for a longer time.

I looked for "ultimate compound and polish" on this sites store, but I couldn't find it. is there a part or item number for it?

Those are two separate products from Meguiar's they are kind of the user friendly version on 105 & 205. Here is a link to the compound Meguiars Ultimate Compound, polishing compound, rubbing compound, meguiars rubbing compound, meguires, meguiars polish, auto compound polish

any idea on tree sap removal?

They make specialty products, but I think a clay bar should get it off when you do that process, a polish will certainly take what the clay bar leaves.

 

[cardaddy]

should I put the #7 on by hand with a microfiber or DA polisher?

so it looks like m105 with yellow or orange
then m205 with white or blue

what would the baby oil/ mineral oil be used for with the m105??

I looked for "ultimate compound and polish" on this sites store, but I couldn't find it. is there a part or item number for it?

any idea on tree sap removal?

At first I'd put #7 on with a foam pad, by hand. Go over it twice and just let it sit. After it's sat for a while you can hand remove what comes off. Then go back later with a soft pad, via machine, more #7 and it'll help remove what was left on the paint as you put more on.

I mentioned 105 because a lot of guys might say go to it. Thing is it is a ROYAL PITA to work with!!! It's affordable, which is why more people buy it. The baby oil in a little spray bottle you use to help work the 105 longer. It takes just a TINY spritz on the pad (or sometimes on the paint) to help lubricate it. People will also do a very light spritz with water. I find that water makes 105 clump up worse though. FWIW that is the big complaint with 105, it clumps up fairly quickly. Not because it's junk, but because being a SMAT product it cuts so hard, and doesn't break down like a DAT product. Part of the problem is 105 itself, and the other is you're literally building up broken down paint in the compound mix as it works into the pad. You might only get 60 seconds of working time with 105, enough to get a single section pass in.

That's why it's very important to keep your section size down. Don't work outside your shoulders. It may be a 2' x 2' area or it may be a bit smaller. Small isn't a problem, working large IS a problem.

I've moved to 101 because it's just so much easier to work with, (but cost almost twice as much). Nothing works forever, but 101 works longer, easier.

Work with a yellow pad.... not necessarily, it all depends on what your "test spot" tells you.
Keep in mind that when doing your test spot you don't change the machine speed, the downward pressure, your arm speed, your PRODUCT even (when you are comparing one pad to another) and of course not the section size and the amount of section passes.

Say you've decided to do 4 section passes only and you do that with each test spot. Afterwards you compare all of them. You may have 3 spots that the only difference is the pad. You may have two more that you use the same pad but different compounds. In any event, you'll compare your test spots and decide which one gets you the closest to what you are trying to accomplish.

NOW you can start changing things a bit. You might decide that you can get 2 more section passes in. Might change the machine speed half a step. This is the fine tuning part of the exercise. Work a compound too long and you'll have a BIG problem getting it off. Work it too short and you'll not get the correction it's capable of.

The Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish are both from Meguiar's. Both are derivatives of 101 and 205, little brothers so to speak. Similar, just not as much cut, yet have MUCH MORE polishing oils allowing them to be used for longer periods via machine.

You can find them here, and most anywhere locally OTC. They are both excellent products.

By hand with a microfiber. Lots of them (maybe 8) They will be heavily soiled by black paint by the time you are done so i wouldn't use them for beauty work after that.

I totally agree!

I wouldn't be so fast to get the biggest hammer AKA 105 and a yellow pad. See how a mild correction works first, you want to leave as much paint on that car as you can. The Orange and Ultimate Compound is probably the most you'd need for the heavy stuff. I found the black paint on my e28 to be very soft and correctable. M205 pairs with white, but you may not need a two step process. Blue would be for wax or sealant.

They make specialty products, but I think a clay bar should get it off when you do that process, a polish will certainly take what the clay bar leaves.

To the OP; Having this input from someone that HAS worked on his own e28 is very valuable information!

Who knows about whether or not you can get away with only the orange pads, maybe, maybe not. Paint on a single model of car from year to year, or plant to plant can and often is totally different when it comes to finishing it down.

At the very least you will likely need half a dozen of three different color pads. As I mentioned earlier, as you move to polishing however you can get away with less. Being as they come in 6 packs (for the best value) you'd do good to do the blue and black with a 3+3.

Meguiar's UC and UP are both great tools to have in your arsenal. Looking at the current condition I'd do a two-step on it if it were mine. Could finish your compounding with a white pad and then take a CLEAN white pad and start polishing with one. You'll get totally different results with the same pad using a compound and a polish. (Remember, DO NOT cross contaminate products in the same pad!) (I originally bought pads only for my 5 cars here and bought 18~20 white pads out of some 70+ pads in one order.)

If and that's a BIG IF, it finishes out like you like it then you may need not move to a blue, black or whatever for polishing. Just remember, that when you move to a finishing pad, then a finessing pad, the finish WILL get glossier and deeper.
It's more about how MUCH work you want to put into it than how little.

 

[Bavarian-Cream]

Thanks for all the insight it is really much appreciated,
megs ultimate compound & polish it is then, along with yellow(just in case) , orange , white and blue pads and maybe a finessing pad. im planning on really taking my time with it to get the best results possible.

any info anyone else might have is always welcomed, ill start on it and post some pictures up here after I get it done.

 

[Bavarian-Cream]

I ended up going around the entire car with ulrimate compound and a yellow pad.
Should i step the compound down to a orange or white now?
Or can i go right to ultimate polish with a white?
It looks like i can go to polish/white per test area but input is appreciated

The ultimate compound did a great job, but on the lids flat surfaces hood trunk and roof, it has deeper scratches and some sort of etching. I think i will try a more agressive compound

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Ding dang... not sure how I missed this thread... oh well...

I ended up going around the entire car with ultimate compound and a yellow pad.
Should i step the compound down to a orange or white now?

Or can i go right to ultimate polish with a white?


It looks like i can go to polish/white per test area but input is appreciated

If the results from your test spot show great results following the compound step with the polish and white polishing pad then definitely move on to this step.

"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

The reason why is because this approach leaves the most paint on the car.

The ultimate compound did a great job, but on the lids flat surfaces hood trunk and roof, it has deeper scratches and some sort of etching. I think i will try a more aggressive compound

Sometimes it's better to learn to live with deeper scratches than to try to completely remove them. My guess is the primer under the single stage black paint will be white and if you remove too much paint it's going to show.

UC is already offers a lot of cut. You could go with M101 or just buff these area one or two more times with what you already have.


Looking forward to some "after" pictures...

 

[Bavarian-Cream]

I think your right and I can live with the scratches , it looks 100% better

After polish i wash thinking another coat of megs#7 with a grey pad

And then a coat of megs high tech yellow wax 26 with a blue pad

? Sound right?

Im using lake country ccs pads

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I think your right and I can live with the scratches , it looks 100% better

After polish i wash thinking another coat of megs#7 with a grey pad

And then a coat of megs high tech yellow wax 26 with a blue pad

? Sound right?

Im using lake country ccs pads

That will work and that's real popular combination for older single stage paints.



Then wash it carefully...


How to maintain a freshly waxed car



:dblthumb2:

 

[cardaddy]

I ended up going around the entire car with ulrimate compound and a yellow pad.
Should i step the compound down to a orange or white now?
Or can i go right to ultimate polish with a white?
It looks like i can go to polish/white per test area but input is appreciated

The ultimate compound did a great job, but on the lids flat surfaces hood trunk and roof, it has deeper scratches and some sort of etching. I think i will try a more agressive compound

Unless you want to buy a bottle of 101 @ $45 I dunno if you really need to go more aggressive. Sure, 105 WILL work, and work very well, but it's a bear to work with. OTOH you have UC there and if you prime the pad with UC then put your drops of 105 on it you'll get dramatically better working times. Then it's just a matter of mixing a little bit of UC with the 105 here and there. Either that... or get some baby oil/mineral oil and do a little spritz with the 105 and it'll work like crazy.

Easier to just go back over those areas with the same pad and a COUPLE of section passes at a time. Don't go crazy on it and do 6 ~ 8 section passes. Do a couple then clean and inspect, rinse-repeat. Clean it in between with a IPA wipe down. It'll remove the polishing oils so you can get a good idea of what is really going on.

The thing about UC / UP is they have a lot of polishing oils, so they tend to hide the micromarring and little swirls that are still there. Just mix down to a 7.5% IPA solution and use that.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ow-mix-ipa-inspecting-correction-results.html

I think your right and I can live with the scratches , it looks 100% better

After polish i wash thinking another coat of megs#7 with a grey pad

And then a coat of megs high tech yellow wax 26 with a blue pad

? Sound right?

Im using lake country ccs pads

I'd say hit it with #7 after compounding and let it sit overnight..:xyxthumbs: Next day you can start polishing. Again, do your test spots either on the trunk or hood or both. Try the white pad with your section passes, then right beside it try the blue pad with the same amount of passes. (I've got a feeling though that white will be what you want.)

After polishing.... I'd think SERIOUSLY about hitting it with M21 2.0 and letting it sit for 24 hours. I freaking LOVE M21 for what it is, and what it does. :dblthumb2: Fantastic sealant, just not the WOWA type. Nothing wrong though in my book with WOWO, gives ya' that extra time wiping down the finish and getting to know every nook and cranny just that much better.

After it 'cures' for a few hours, to a day you can hit it with the M26 and it'll look like glass! Might even hit it with Ultimate Liquid Wax. Great topping to the whole "ultimate" line. Another thing that's got great reviews is the Ultimate Spray Wax. I wasn't sure of it for a long time and just didn't use it until I started seeing so many positive reviews. Thing is... it's great for QD duties between washes. Say a spritz with ONR to clean it a bit then a nice spritz with USW and it'll really come around. I'll even use it over M26 between washes.

Can't wait for photos... keep up the good work! rops:

 

[vegas911gts]

Great tips. My doc asked me what to do with an old porsche that he has stored at his parents farm in sonoma. He's going to pick it up and drive it here if it starts. I'm guessing that it has single stage paint. It's an 1987 year built car.