Need help with swirls that are easy to instill but difficult to remove.

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krisgel100

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Car: Metallic black 2012 Porsche

I care for the car with all of the proper wash/dry/seal techniques to induce the absolute minimal swirls. Still, the car has many random single line swirls. These are not the type of swirls that are closely grouped in a circular pattern. They seem very shallow, because they are difficult to see unless the car is in overhead sunlight with head at just the right angle, or with the Brinkman LED at just the right angle and height. No matter how careful I am with my detailing techniques, the isolated swirls appear in the paint, and are adding up with time.

I have had no luck removing them with my Porter Cable 7424XP. The most aggressive combo I have tried is Ultimate Compound with a Green LC pad (between white and orange in aggressiveness). This was at a speed of 6 with firm pressure and multiple passes.

It is puzzling to me why it is so easy to instill the swirls, but so difficult to remove them.

Any suggestions?
 
Get the M new LC's are good for cutting and finishing. Then coat it to harden the surface.icrofiber Pads. The
 
Oh boy, Old Tiger...you fragmented that post into an unintelligible sentence...I think you meant to suggest the new Lake Country Microfiber pads to correct the paint and then put a coating on after.

krisgel100: As Mike Phillips would say, new clearcoat paints are "scratch-sensitive"; I thought he had an article on that but I can't find it, but yes, it's a lot easier to put scratches in that it is to remove them.

That's mostly because the scratches/swirls are likely caused by small pieces of grit that are really really hard, like rock or sand. You need to be very careful not only that you aren't grinding dirt on the surface of the car, but that whatever media you use for washing/wiping the surface is clean and stored in a manner to not get contaminated.

Concrete dust is very abrasive, and if you have a floor that dusts, this concrete dust can get kicked up simply by driving the car in or walking around (engine fans can kick it up, landscapers blowing around the garage door, etc.). But regardless how clean your garage is or how careful you are, if you have a daily driver and it gets driven and washed it's going to get some wear and tear (swirls).
 
I don't think there is much I could have done or could still do to insure that I do not get these isolated swirls. I am super careful with my technique, and use the best products.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is:

1. Knowing that Ultimate Compound + LC Green Foam Pad did not remove the swirls, what should I try next?

2. Why should the paint be so resistant to removal of these light, shallow swirls, yet so easy to become swirled.
 
Removing swirls takes time and paitence. Have you looked at using Mcguairs DA Microfiber system. That System works good in removing swirls.
 
Old Tiger said:
Get the M new LC's are good for cutting and finishing. Then coat it to harden the surface.icrofiber Pads. The
Click to expand...

Setec Astronomy said:
I think you meant to suggest the new Lake Country Microfiber pads to correct the paint and then put a coating on after.

... regardless how clean your garage is or how careful you are, if you have a daily driver and it gets driven and washed it's going to get some wear and tear (swirls).
Click to expand...

Eandras said:
Removing swirls takes time and paitence. Have you looked at using Mcguairs DA Microfiber system. That System works good in removing swirls.
Click to expand...

:iagree:

If you aren't getting the results you are looking for with the foam pads you should check out the Microfiber pads and something like Megs D300 or D105. These are a knock out combo for polishing out swirl marks and shallow isolated scratches.
 
krisgel100 said:
2. Why should the paint be so resistant to removal of these light, shallow swirls, yet so easy to become swirled.
Click to expand...

Because to create that light, shallow swirl, you are removing a small amount of material (what is in the scratch) with a piece of very sharp abrasive. But to correct that swirl, you have to remove all the surrounding paint (thousands of times as much) down to the level of the swirl, using a milder abrasive.

As Mike Phillips notes in one of his articles--scratches and swirls aren't there--they are created by the absence of paint in those areas. The correction of the swirl is done by the "opposite" of what created it, that's why you are observing a perhaps counter-intuitive disconnect between how easy it is to create swirls vs. how hard it is to remove them.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Oh boy, Old Tiger...you fragmented that post into an unintelligible sentence...I think you meant to suggest the new Lake Country Microfiber pads to correct the paint and then put a coating on after.

Hey give him a break (Old Tiger) he's old like me.
Click to expand...
 
krisgel100 said:
Car: Metallic black 2012 Porsche

I care for the car with all of the proper wash/dry/seal techniques to induce the absolute minimal swirls. Still, the car has many random single line swirls. These are not the type of swirls that are closely grouped in a circular pattern. They seem very shallow, because they are difficult to see unless the car is in overhead sunlight with head at just the right angle, or with the Brinkman LED at just the right angle and height. No matter how careful I am with my detailing techniques, the isolated swirls appear in the paint, and are adding up with time.
Click to expand...

I got it absolutely what u mean, i faced exactly same situation a month back, despite my super duper care. Car was Honda civic (u might be knowing how soft the paint is)

krisgel100 said:
I have had no luck removing them with my Porter Cable 7424XP. The most aggressive combo I have tried is Ultimate Compound with a Green LC pad (between white and orange in aggressiveness). This was at a speed of 6 with firm pressure and multiple passes.

It is puzzling to me why it is so easy to instill the swirls, but so difficult to remove them.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

My personal recommendation/suggession; Guaranteed results:

As u said u tried Ultimate Compound, Great! Great product. Use Ultimate compound only, don't just go for any more abrassive product. Trust me. Or else, it would be like killing a mice with the shotgun. these are just the random minor straight swirls/RIDS/ or whatever it may be called.

Secondly, and most important. Do a test spot. Start with orange light cutting pad with ultimate compound after properly priming the clean pad. If you see the results, welldone; U're the Man Im the MAN Otherwise try Yellow cutting pad (because porsche has a bit tough paint) and u'll surely see ur smiling face in the reflections :) just remember to followup with finishing polish with white pad (in case u use yellow pad.)

Job Done :buffing:
 
UPDATE: I just got an Optimum MF Cutting Pad from Autogeek. I did a test spot on the hood.

With the combo of the MF Cutting Pad and Ultimate Compound + A LOT of downward pressure, I was able to finally remove the shallow swirls!

NEXT QUESTION: It appears that there is zero marring after using this combo. Is there any possible advantage to following this up with another step? Seeing how I needed such an aggressive combo to move the faintest of swirls, could a less aggressive second step have any effect on the surface?

I tried a second step of Menzerna Sf4500 + LC white pad, but I am not sure I could see a difference from doing this step.
 
That's great that you were able to remove the swirls. I have found that with proper technique MF pads finish down very very well. If the paint has been corrected to your standards then there is no reason to go through additional steps. Pics, pics, pics!

Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online
 
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