Need some advice/help with paint correction

windie

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Hello All. Been a reader for a long time. Great info available here by all the experts, Thanks. ecided to finally take on detailing on a more serious level. Got myself a DA polisher, the DAS6 pro. Been trying to correct the paint on my Honda accord/tsx blue. Paint isn’t in bad condition, but can see swirls at an angle and some deeper marks. Bonnet and roof are more marked than sides.

First attempted using Menzerna pf2500 on a LC orange pad (6.5”). Then went to Menzerna fg500. Still wasn’t happy with the amount of correction. I spread the product initially on a low speed, then went upto speed 4-5 using around 5-6 passes.

Then tried megs m105 on the LC orange. Primed the pad properly. Decided to use the dual pad method. So I also primed a LC black pad. So used the orange pad on a speed of 5, 4-5 passes. Then without wiping the haze away (and without adding more product) used the primed black pad on a speed of 3 for 3 passes. Result was much better. But still at an angle I can see some more deeper lines and marks. Swirls are gone though.

Im not sure what else to do. I am applying firm pressure (not to hard though). Car was clayed before. I don’t have a LC yellow pad to try, only a wool one. But as Honda paint is soft don’t want to risk it. I cant get m205 or LC yellow at the moment as cash strapped so have to make use with what I have (such things are expensive here in aus and only available from couple online stores).

Long post I know, but any tips? Maybe I need to do more passes as it’s a DA polisher? Thanks
 
Forgot to mention another thing. I worked in sections. So the roof I did in 6 sections. Trunk top 2. Bonnet 6. That’s all I have been able to do as wasn’t getting enough correction and kept giving up for a while. Been at it for 3 days. Frustrating but still trying.

After doing the boot and half the roof with m105 I felt the pad needed more priming so did a bit more. Is that ok to do? I did clean the pad after every section with a brush (both orange and black ones). Thanks
 
Some things that may help:

1. Shrink your work area

2. Increase your downward pressure

3. Slow your arm speed to 1" a second

4. Add a spritz of DI water to the pad

5. Bump the machine up to 6.

Never heard of the 2 pad method.
 
Some things that may help:

1. Shrink your work area

2. Increase your downward pressure

3. Slow your arm speed to 1" a second

4. Add a spritz of DI water to the pad

5. Bump the machine up to 6.

Never heard of the 2 pad method.


Thanks for the reply. Sections were not bigger than 2x2, probably a tad smaller. Ill go smaller a bit more. I was going pretty slow, having never used this before was challenging a bit. The vibrations, trying to keep a steady pace. My triceps have had a good workout haha.

Didnt think of the DI, will try that. Thanks
 
Try working an even smaller area, like 16x16, slowly work it with moderate pressure.
I assume you washed the car well and clayed it?
Also make sure you inspect your pad and clean it often.
A few months ago I worked on a black 2011 Accord and I too had my problems , I just continued to work at it and in the end it was flawless, just keep working at it trying to get the smaller area corrected.

Good luck!
 
This is what I have learned on soft paint in general like this Honda. You must finish off the paint with a finer polish and the inspect your work. You need to bite the bullet and get some finishing polish like m205 or menz sf 4000. Soft paint requires 2 steps because the first step( your m105, potentially caused marring)
 
Or buy you a bottle of Meg's Ultimate Compound , less cut than the 105 and get pretty close to last step results.
Very cheap too considering what a good product you get with the UC.
Longer work times too which helps.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Yes car was washed and clayed. Cleaned pad after every pass.

Using the dual pad method with m105 I wasnt getting any marring. Just not enough correction overall. BUt I think thats too much trouble, changing pads all the time.


I actually do have menz sf4000 (or I think its sf4500). Ill re-try a smaller section, with a bit more pressure and 6 speed with m105. Then will follow it up with menz sf4500 on a LC white pad.
 
Hey all. Been having success and nearly done. Ill do a detailed post after about my findings etc.

For now need quick help. Corrected the headlights using m105. I have prima epic (and amigo).

Everywhere says to avoid getting epic on trim and rubber. But nothing bout plastic. Can I seal the headlights with epic? Thanks
 
Glad it worked out. I've had no problems with epic on my headlights.
BTW. When I first started out, I had problems getting good results using 6.5" pads. Using 5.5" pads makes me feel like a pro. Easier to control the machine. Seems like I use less product. End up with less test spots too.
 
Glad it worked out. I've had no problems with epic on my headlights.
BTW. When I first started out, I had problems getting good results using 6.5" pads. Using 5.5" pads makes me feel like a pro. Easier to control the machine. Seems like I use less product. End up with less test spots too.

Super, ill put some epic on now. Just finished putting epic all over. Been at this thing for couple weeks now (weekends mainly) and its almost done.

Controlling the machine was hard to start with (more on that later). I got the LC 6.5 pads, along with 4' ones. Came bundled with the das6 pro so didnt have any other LC sizes I could pick from.

Gonna let the epic cure for a while then finish. In the mean time ill just show one pic :D.


8vvt3l.jpg


This is after correction and with amigo on only. Overall it has been a fantastic experience, learnt a lot from here, thank you all. Ill update more in a few days, just too tired right now :xyxthumbs:
 
Finally done with it all, put a second layer of epic today to make sure I covered it all.

Got the hang of using a DA. I def liked menz polishes more due to the ease of use. Less dusting (compared to m105) made it better for my allergies.

For the roof, bonnet, fenders, front bumper and trunk used fg500 on orange pad, then fg500 on white followed by pf2500 on white. On sides and rear bumper only used pf2500 on orange and white pad. In all cases it finished up well and didnt need to use sf4500.

I could def have used a yellow cutting pad to save me some extra passes that I made for correction. As I only had 1 set of pads I had to work in parts, washed the pads frequently as it would gunk up fairly quickly (even when cleaning on the fly).

Followed it by using prima amigo and sealing it with prima epic. Now for some pics:
 
[PICTURE HEAVY]

3 shot comparisons. 1 - Pre wash. 2 - After wash and clay. 3 Final after everything.

Had a ton of chips on the front. Didnt want to repsray so took the pain staking effort of filling them in, sanding them and then polishing them out. Huge difference. Still some can be seen if you go up close, but they are bluish in color now, not white and dont stick out.


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2

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3

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love the shine. THough I think the sun being out helped magnify it more, comparing with the after wash/clay shots.



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3

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3

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3

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Some Random Shots

After wash and clay

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hy6d.jpg


8rao.jpg



Final shots

g0ww.jpg


j8ma.jpg


y428.jpg


j3cg.jpg


jxxh.jpg


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omfz.jpg


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There are still some RIDS in certain minor areas but only visible if you really look for it, at the right angle and light. But in the end its a daily and to get rid of them I would def need a yellow pad. I wasnt going to keep at it with an orange.

So overall very happy with the results, learnt heaps. TY all for your help.
 
Some things that may help:

1. Shrink your work area

2. Increase your downward pressure

3. Slow your arm speed to 1" a second

4. Add a spritz of DI water to the pad

5. Bump the machine up to 6.

Never heard of the 2 pad method.


That kind of reads like the short version of this... :dblthumb2:


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


Tyler, age 15 removing swirls using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher
1965Plymouth035.jpg


When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

7. Using too much product or using too little product.

8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
  • Removed paint
  • Spent product
As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.


Pad Cleaning Articles

Why it's important to clean your pads often...

How to clean your foam pad on the fly

How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer


Tyler, age 15 machine applying a paste wax using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher

1965Plymouth067.jpg


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:buffing:
 
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