New PC

:rolleyes:


Description of the action of a PC7424:

These polishers rotate the pad like an orbital polisher, and they move the pad back and forth. The dual motion means that the polisher does not stay in one spot. You might even say it propels itself. This prevents burning the paint. A dual action polisher is ideal for people who are new to mechanical detailing, or just don’t want to risk it.
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One more time in case anyone missed it:


These polishers ROTATE the pad like an ORBITAL polisher...AND they move the pad back and forth.




Is the nail in the coffin yet???
 
I second the nail in the coffin....if all it does is "jiggle" when you apply pressure it is still doing its job.....look at the polish trail...you will still see very small swirling motions in the polish trail...just not perfectly round....remember that "orbit" is more of a side to side motion that actually rotating.....
 
Nica said:
Yea, my Edge 2000 pads do not rotate like in the video. I think it's the pressure, I just noticed the video and he was hardly applying any pressure, so I'm going to have to try it again and this time just let the weight of the PC do the work.

Thanks for posting the video again, even though I've been looking at it almost every day I still missed that :D
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Man, I wish I could get hi-speed internet !! Too bad MAX or one of the other Gods don't record it and offer it for sale. I would buy a copy of it and the other detailing videos that I can't view at 36K.
Wm.
 
orngez said:
I second the nail in the coffin....if all it does is "jiggle" when you apply pressure it is still doing its job.....look at the polish trail...you will still see very small swirling motions in the polish trail...just not perfectly round....remember that "orbit" is more of a side to side motion that actually rotating.....
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Okay I finally get it.."...if all it does is "jiggle" when you apply pressure it is still doing its job..." this did it because this is what I've seen. Thank you guys for all the help really do appreciate it :grouphug:

But let me throw this out there, my PC's counter weight says "5 inch pads ONLY" so does this mean ONLY 5 inch...I know that there is a 6 inch counter weight available would this make a difference?
 
Man...I thought I made it clear...you guys are making this tough...

The pad does NOT just jiggle, unless there is too much force, it is SUPPOSED to ROTATE like an orbital AND ALSO move side to side.

Reread the description of the DUAL meaning two, dual means two motions, one is in a circle, the other is an off axis wobbling, it's not supposed to STOP rotating.

What I meant by the nail in the coffin was that description should solve what BOTH motions are supposed to be once and for all.
 
I beg to differ. The PC does not have a forced rotation like a rotary. It is free spinning, which is exactly what these guys have witnessed. It will spin in a circle, but only until pressure is applied. Then it only orbits, or moves around the axis in the same motion as your hand when you wax by hand. That is exactly why the PC is so user friendly, because it will stop spinning. If it were to orbit and spin and the same time, I would have to believe it would generate a lot more heat, and be much more likely to cause damage if misused.
 
Orbit

I disagre with you Grimm. Maybe you don't understand the original problem. When I use any of the edge pads, the pc will not rotate, however, when I switched to the white pad that came with the pc it does in fact rotate. I can apply 15lbs. of pressure to the head of the pc and it will still rotate. Rsurfer
 
The PC does cause the pad to spin...but the spinning of the pad is from centrifugal force. This spinning is not fast enough to do any paint correction, though.

Since this is caused by centrifugal force I can hold the pad even at speed 6 and prevent it from spinning. The bigger the pad the more it will spin....I have 6" pads that will stop spinning at any amount of pressure and 7.5" that always spin no matter what speed or pressure.

Like Grimm said, the PC rotates circular but off axises, the same as your hand waxing in a circular motion, but thousands of times faster.

Edge pads, unless on speed 6, do not spin much and pretty much don't spin at all with pressure.
 
I agree with you blkyukon and everything that blackmagic has said. The only difference that I have is that when I used the screw on white 6" pad, it does rotate and orbits unlike what you claimed with your 6" pads. Go figure!!! Your input is greatly appreciated.
 
blkyukon said:
The PC does cause the pad to spin...but the spinning of the pad is from centrifugal force. This spinning is not fast enough to do any paint correction, though.

Since this is caused by centrifugal force I can hold the pad even at speed 6 and prevent it from spinning. The bigger the pad the more it will spin....I have 6" pads that will stop spinning at any amount of pressure and 7.5" that always spin no matter what speed or pressure.

Like Grimm said, the PC rotates circular but off axises, the same as your hand waxing in a circular motion, but thousands of times faster.

Edge pads, unless on speed 6, do not spin much and pretty much don't spin at all with pressure.
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So to conclude, the 6 inch Edge pads don't spin much and don't spin at all with pressure. The next question is this, even though the pads are not spinning properly are they working properly?

So if I get the Lake Country pads with a 5 inch flexible backing plate they will spin/orbit and work? Just like in the video?

Sorry guys for the dumb question and I don't mean to annoy anyone but if I don't ask I'll always wonder.

Thank you
 
Rsurfer said:
I disagre with you Grimm. Maybe you don't understand the original problem. When I use any of the edge pads, the pc will not rotate, however, when I switched to the white pad that came with the pc it does in fact rotate. I can apply 15lbs. of pressure to the head of the pc and it will still rotate. Rsurfer
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That was why I asked originally if you guys had defective machines. I think maybe people are getting confused as to what each other means by "spinning" or "rotating." When you say your's doesn't "rotate" with the Edge pads, do you mean spinning in a circle at a fixed axis like a wheel? As was mentioned, the PC moves in two different ways. The first it spins in a circle like a wheel on a single axis. And the second motion is the "orbiting". I think someone mentioned the motion of the Earth, and that is a great anology of how the PC works. The pad spins like the earth rotates on it's axis during an entire day. but then the pad also "orbits" like the earth travels in it's orbit around the sun. The thing is, the spinning is a free motion, not forced. That is why you can spin the pad with the machine off, because it's free spinning. You put your hand on the pad and it stops, the same happens when you turn it on and put pressure on the pad. The only thing the machine is making the pad do is "orbit". As I mentioned previously, you don't want that pad to continue "spinning" in the circle or it will be like a rotary and create too much heat. Like blkyukon said, the spinning is merely a result of the centrifugal force of the orbiting.

so if I understand those of you that say your machine isn't "spinning", I think you are really talking about it "spinning", but yet it still "orbits". If that's the case, I'm pretty certain that is how the machine is meant to work.
 
Ok, let's agree to disagree then.

Everyone is talking about the pad making a revolution in a circle...is that clear?
LIKE a rotary would do...in a circle, I don't care if it's forced or not, it should be making revolutions in a circle as well as off axis wobbling.

Answer this, you put a piece of tape on the back of your pad and the tape stays in one spot, the pad is stationary, it is not rotating, you now have a vibrating pad...the question is...you happy now?

Think that's gonna do a good job?

That isn't doing squat. You now have a pad vibrating at a very high rate of vibration.

By my interpretation of the description of the way the PC should work, the pad should be going in a circle as it wobbles, plain and simple.
HOW the pad gets to make it's revolutions is irrelevant, it should be making revolutions.

This is exactly what it does when using a 5" backing plate with a 6.5" pad. Try it with a piece of colored tape on it and you'll see how difficult it is to get it to stop spinning.
You can put mega pressure on it and it still won't stop, and no it didn't burn my paint. I find that laughable, it couldn't burn my paint if I kept in one spot all night long. Trust me, I have put mega pressure on it in many different spots to kill (as much as possible) scratches and it took a looooong looooooong time to start to get it out and that was on the maximum setting, no burn.
Keep in mind was using a yellow pad to boot, the coursest, XMT3 and even tried Menzerna on several spots...no burn.
It simply doesn't spin anywhere near fast enough to burn paint. The PC is truly idiot proof. I've done areas twice successively, let the polish all but dissapear then loaded up again and polished the same area again...no burn. Again use the tape and you will see you can count the revolutions by eye if a lot of pressure is used, if your fast, even with no pressure. That's not enough speed to burn paint.
Any other setup, doesn't seem to need any help to stop spinning, this is, in MY belief due to that fact that there is an increase in surface pressure per square inch as you reduce the size of the pad.

I leave it to you all to decide what to do about it. If your comfortable with the pad not rotating and like the results...GREAT!!!

I suggest before you conclude that though, that you try a 5" backing plate and 6.5" pad WITH a piece of colored tape stuck to it so you can see the revolutions it's making, then try any other setup, again WITH the colored tape, then come tell me you still prefer it to not spin...or don't care that it doesn't, or don't think there's a diffeence.

Believe me, even without rotating, your paint will look better, because it is still vibrating...jiggling...orbiting...whatever you want to call it the polish around, this will still reduce the edges of swirls. But as per the description and the much better results I get when it rotated, it's what I want the pad to do.
 
This thread is kinda laughable. Of course the PC has to rotary. Yes, it is not measured in RPM (Rotations per minute) but instead in OPM(Orbits per minute). It rotates (spins) and also moves a little back and forth that's why is called a dual action buffer. 2 motions instead of 1 motion.
BlacKMagicK has it right..

Also look at the specs.

Model 7424
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3.7 Amp, AC Only
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Electronic variable speed 2,500-6,000 OPM

The thread caught my eye because tomorrow I plan on buying a PC7424 and Edge 2K pad kit.
 
The thing is, the spinning is a free motion, not forced.

Grimm said:
That was why I asked originally if you guys had defective machines. I think maybe people are getting confused as to what each other means by "spinning" or "rotating." When you say your's doesn't "rotate" with the Edge pads, do you mean spinning in a circle at a fixed axis like a wheel? As was mentioned, the PC moves in two different ways. The first it spins in a circle like a wheel on a single axis. And the second motion is the "orbiting". I think someone mentioned the motion of the Earth, and that is a great anology of how the PC works. The pad spins like the earth rotates on it's axis during an entire day. but then the pad also "orbits" like the earth travels in it's orbit around the sun. The thing is, the spinning is a free motion, not forced. That is why you can spin the pad with the machine off, because it's free spinning. You put your hand on the pad and it stops, the same happens when you turn it on and put pressure on the pad. The only thing the machine is making the pad do is "orbit". As I mentioned previously, you don't want that pad to continue "spinning" in the circle or it will be like a rotary and create too much heat. Like blkyukon said, the spinning is merely a result of the centrifugal force of the orbiting.

so if I understand those of you that say your machine isn't "spinning", I think you are really talking about it "spinning", but yet it still "orbits". If that's the case, I'm pretty certain that is how the machine is meant to work.
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:cheers:
I have a PC and have checked it out. It spins, but only from the centrifugal force. You can stop it by hand (the spinning,not the orbiting) with any size pad.
This sentence from Grimm sums it up pretty much cut n dry:
The thing is, the spinning is a free motion, not forced.
 
Well to make sure my machine is working properly, I emailed Porter Cable to get it from the source. I also did some searching, and found many sites that support the fact that the pad does not rotate or spin like a rotary. This includes Autogeek's site which says it rotates like an orbital as well as moves back and forth.
 
Hi Grimm, Your last sentence says it all, the key word being ROTATE. If it doesn't rotate then it's not dual action. The pad going in a back and forth motion is not an orbital motion. Blackmagic post is right on. I don't have a backing plate, only the edge pads, so I can't try the 5" backing plate with the 6.5" pads. But, I'm sure that it will rotate as stated by Blackmagic. Again, as I posted earlier, when I used the screw on white pad that came with the pc, it rotated even with heavy pressure. Nica has also tried this with the same results.
 
I never said it didn't rotate. I just said it's not a forced rotation. Reread what I said above, Autogeek confirms what I said that it rotates like an orbital. Orbitals don's spin, they "orbit" around the axis. Do some searching and you'll find many sources that confirm that the PC doesn't "spin" other than it's natural free spinning from centrifugal force. But this is getting to be a pointless debate, so I'm not going to continue going back and forth.
 
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I just pulled this out of the detail manual. Maybe this will help.

Rotary buffers have a straight drive to the polishing head, whereas dual-action polishers have special drive head that causes the polish disk to run in an orbital pattern while also rotating.

It has to rotate to be working correctly.
 
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