New to machine polishing, some questions....

Thanks for all the replies, suggestions, tips, etc., etc. Much appreciated. I think I'm sold on the GG6. Was originally settled on the HF, but after hearing the bad reviews on the new model and the advice here, I'd be much better served with the GG6 for sure. Also settling in the LC flat pads, unless you guys recommend something else? I see someone mentioned the LC hybrid force pads. I'm not familiar with all the different pad types so I'm open to suggestions. Took a few quick pictures this evening of what I'm working with. Opinions welcomed!! Didn't have the best lighting, and no QD to wipe up a bit (it's been raining here all day). But you should be able to get a good idea of what I got going on. Truck was washed, clay barred and waxed approximately 3 weeks ago, and then washed 3 days ago to give you a sense of where it's currently at. The Flex was washed 3 days ago.

Here are a couple areas with surface scratches and marring.
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And here is a shot of the paint condition in general .Pretty good IMO.
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Here is my wife's Flex.
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mckobe said:
If it were me, I would save up if need be and get a flex 3401, 4 7/8 backing plate (I think that's the size), and LC 5.5 hybrid force pads. You'll never go back. Literally cuts your time in half. Skip all the others, because you're going to want to upgrade
Click to expand...

I think this may be correct for a vehicle with paint that needs real attention.

I am not even going to mention actual pro's, because a Flex to them is a no-brainer.

But, in my opinion..... Using a beast like the Flex on a hobbyist's paint year after year might "cut your time in half", but may also be overkill and remove more clear coat than you'd like, or even more than the job actually requires.
 
PaulMys said:
I think this may be correct for a vehicle with paint that needs real attention.

I am not even going to mention actual pro's, because a Flex to them is a no-brainer.

But, in my opinion..... Using a beast like the Flex on a hobbyist's paint year after year might "cut your time in half", but may also be overkill and remove more clear coat than you'd like, or even more than the job actually requires.
Click to expand...

But then you start doing your neighbors cars, your friends cars. Compliment after compliment. Then you start doing it professionally
 
VISITOR said:
Griot's Garage 6 Inch Random Orbital Polisher
_________________________________________________

Griot's Garage 5 Inch Vented Orbital Backing Plate

Griot's Garage 3 inch HD Backing Plate
_________________________________________________

Griot's Garage 5.5 Inch BOSS Foam and Microfiber Pads

Griot's Garage 3 inch BOSS Foam and Microfiber Pads

OR

Lake Country ThinPro Foam Pad System 5.5 Inch

Lake Country ThinPro Foam Pad System 3.5 Inch
_________________________________________________

Click to expand...

Thank you for providing these clickable links for the original poster!

I agree, that all should have a PC/GG type polisher on hand. And that such should be the first tool to look toward because of the versatility they possess.

I've never used a Flex, and I have zero doubt this is the pinnacle of D/A Tools, but....

The Flex cannot be adapted and modified to use the much smaller backing plates and pads that the PC/GG can use.
And like others have touched upon, the free rotating D/A machines are more forgiving for a beginning, or hobbyist user.

The smaller plates and pads will then have the ability of being more effective and easier to use in smaller, confined areas, tight curves, bumpers, A and B Pillars.

The use of LC's Thinpro Pads will enhance the effectiveness of the free rotating D/A's such as the PC and GG tools versus the thicker LC Flat Pads.
 
The choice of then doing other's vehicles is of course a personal choice. But for the initial intended purposes, one can get by fine with the GG6, or PC Machines.

For professionals, yes, time is money for one and as well speed means a bit less wear and tear on the body, your arms, shoulders, hands. and overall taxation of the body.

Without the proper selection of the right choices of Pads, and Polishes/Compounds, and then finally the proper techniques, then any machine made becomes ineffective in use.

As for polishes, and over the counter purchases, Megs is always a good choice. I've used Meg's #205 Ultra Finishing Polish on a number of occasions, extremely good polish, finishes down so nicely. With this one, it's often easy to walk into any big box auto parts stores, paint supply shops, and even some wally worlds sell #205.

Paired with the LC White Foam Pads, you are going to see some serious shine created.

Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover, and Wolfgang Uber Compound, another 2 killer products, these two are always in my arsenal.
 
Going back and re-reading your original post better, I'll comment some more.

The Orange Flat Pads are fairly aggressive. I personally might first buy 6 White, 4 Orange and 2 Black Pads.
Keep in mind, that Meguiars UC can be paired with the White Pads for more aggressive paint correction if needed.

Note that I say "if needed".

Always try and start with the least aggressive methods and products that will get the job done. I'd say better to do an 80% correction, rather than hammering the paint too hard, and depleting the thin valuable clear coat with being too aggressive.

UC is what it is, a liquid compound, and in many instances of normal paint correction to remove swirls and amp shine, a compound is not needed nor suggested generally.

Start with the polish first, and with the White Pads. Do the proverbial test spot and tape off a section. Commonly the hood receives the most beating, and is a good easy place to start. If you like the results with your processes, then simply repeat these processes on the rest of the vehicle.

Where you have noticed deeper sleeks-scratches, then perhaps switch to and try the Orange Pads with Polish next, or other combinations, Compound with White Pads Again, the least aggressive methods, before stepping up going more aggressive, and when going more aggressive, do such incrementally.

Yes, Collinte #845 is a tremendous hallmark product. It is very well liked here my many. I've used #845 and #476 Paste for literal decades on many of my own vehicles, and many others rides. Last vehicle I did with #845 was my friend's son's 2013 Summit White ZL-1 Camaro. It's pretty much a Sunday show car only, not driven daily.

A month after I did it, I recall him singing praises that he had tons of bugs on the front, and when he went to wash the car, the bugs fell off the front just with the spray hose, before he even began to wash.

I like applying this one by hand, with a dampened foam applicator. Apply as thin as possible. Even on your pickup truck you should be using around an ounce of product at most.

Reason I like applying by hand, is removal and clean up is easier, that I'm not applying tons of this product into cracks, crevices, seams, and trim where it then becomes harder to totally remove.

Keep us posted!
 
MarkD51 said:
The use of LC's Thinpro Pads will enhance the effectiveness of the free rotating D/A's such as the PC and GG tools versus the thicker LC Flat Pads.
Click to expand...

Do you recommend the Thinpro pads over the regular LC flat pads? I was thinking the flat pads would be a bit more forgiving. They are also more economical.

MarkD51 said:
Paired with the LC White Foam Pads, you are going to see some serious shine created.
Click to expand...

For LC pads in general, do you recommend the white pad for the final polishing step? For the flat pads there is also green, blue and black that are labeled as finishing pads. Really not sure which color I should get for that step. Aggression from most to least it goes white, green, blue then black. But they say "Compounding with a yellow or orange pad may leave a light haze. You will need the white or black pad to refine the paint to its original shine and texture. The blue pad will then give you a uniform wax application." Confusing me a bit. After looking at the Thinpro pads, I think I'll at least pick up one of those in red just for wax application.
 
MarkD51 said:
Going back and re-reading your original post better, I'll comment some more.

The Orange Flat Pads are fairly aggressive. I personally might first buy 6 White, 4 Orange and 2 Black Pads.
Keep in mind, that Meguiars UC can be paired with the White Pads for more aggressive paint correction if needed.

Note that I say "if needed".

Always try and start with the least aggressive methods and products that will get the job done. I'd say better to do an 80% correction, rather than hammering the paint too hard, and depleting the thin valuable clear coat with being too aggressive.

UC is what it is, a liquid compound, and in many instances of normal paint correction to remove swirls and amp shine, a compound is not needed nor suggested generally.

Start with the polish first, and with the White Pads. Do the proverbial test spot and tape off a section. Commonly the hood receives the most beating, and is a good easy place to start. If you like the results with your processes, then simply repeat these processes on the rest of the vehicle.

Where you have noticed deeper sleeks-scratches, then perhaps switch to and try the Orange Pads with Polish next, or other combinations, Compound with White Pads Again, the least aggressive methods, before stepping up going more aggressive, and when going more aggressive, do such incrementally.

Yes, Collinte #845 is a tremendous hallmark product. It is very well liked here my many. I've used #845 and #476 Paste for literal decades on many of my own vehicles, and many others rides. Last vehicle I did with #845 was my friend's son's 2013 Summit White ZL-1 Camaro. It's pretty much a Sunday show car only, not driven daily.

A month after I did it, I recall him singing praises that he had tons of bugs on the front, and when he went to wash the car, the bugs fell off the front just with the spray hose, before he even began to wash.

I like applying this one by hand, with a dampened foam applicator. Apply as thin as possible. Even on your pickup truck you should be using around an ounce of product at most.

Reason I like applying by hand, is removal and clean up is easier, that I'm not applying tons of this product into cracks, crevices, seams, and trim where it then becomes harder to totally remove.

Keep us posted!
Click to expand...

I responded to your previous post before I saw this one. Seems to have gotten lost though?

Excellent advice!! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!!

Did you see my pictures back in post #21? After seeing those, do you still recommend what you said above?
 
MarkD51 said:
The use of LC's Thinpro Pads will enhance the effectiveness of the free rotating D/A's such as the PC and GG tools versus the thicker LC Flat Pads.
Click to expand...

Do you recommend the Thinpro pads over the regular LC flat pads? I was thinking the flat pads would be a bit more forgiving. They are also more economical.

MarkD51 said:
Paired with the LC White Foam Pads, you are going to see some serious shine created.
Click to expand...

For LC pads in general, do you recommend the white pad for the final polishing step? For the flat pads there is also green, blue and black that are labeled as finishing pads. Really not sure which color I should get for that step. Aggression from most to least it goes white, green, blue then black. But they say "Compounding with a yellow or orange pad may leave a light haze. You will need the white or black pad to refine the paint to its original shine and texture. The blue pad will then give you a uniform wax application." Confusing me a bit. After looking at the Thinpro pads, I think I'll at least pick up one of those in red just for wax application.
 
OK, I took a good look at the pics.

Hard to judge, and certainly don't wish to deter or discourage you, but I'll comment some.

By the Gas Filler Cap, those light scratches and deeper swirls might likely come out totally with polish and/or compounding.

Hard to tell, but some of the deeper ones that have gone through the clear coat and into the base coat may not ever be totally removed. They might look better after a full correction process, but might very well still be easily seen from a close distance.

Usually when a fingernail will catch easily in such scratches, they likely will not ever totally come out and be removed to looking pristine showroom. Sorry for saying such, but only so much can be done.

The other alternatives, are touch up paints. And that can be a real crap shoot too, especially on vertical panels. Conventional type touch up paints have a tendency to sag, very slow dry times, and then a need to level-smooth, and remove overrun outside the scratch area.

While Dr. Colorchip touch up paints aren't generally the choice for scratches, but rather paint chips, it can be used to some good effect if very carefully applied, and smoothed with their Sealact Solution. I've done such myself with this product with somewhat acceptable results, that it looked better than before, and figured it was better to try to fill these areas with a bit of paint, rather than running the risks of seeing eventual rust-corrosion.

Getting back to D/A use. There's tons of videos, many by Mike Phillips, if not here, on the web and youtube. They'll show the techniques of using the D/A, doing the required Section Passes, how to start and stop the machine without getting product sling, applied pressures, masking trim, etc., so on and so forth.

The more you study such, you'll be better equipped from the very start of the techniques used, and apply them to yourself when getting the hang of things
 
MarkD51 said:
OK, I took a good look at the pics.

Hard to judge, and certainly don't wish to deter or discourage you, but I'll comment some.

By the Gas Filler Cap, those light scratches and deeper swirls might likely come out totally with polish and/or compounding.

Hard to tell, but some of the deeper ones that have gone through the clear coat and into the base coat may not ever be totally removed. They might look better after a full correction process, but might very well still be easily seen from a close distance.

Usually when a fingernail will catch easily in such scratches, they likely will not ever totally come out and be removed to looking pristine showroom. Sorry for saying such, but only so much can be done.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for the response!!

All of the pictures posted are surface scratches, swirls and marring. None of them will catch a fingernail. There are a few deeper scratches that I did not take pictures of, but I plan to address them as needed after seeing how they look after a full correction.
 
bigterp said:
But they say "Compounding with a yellow or orange pad may leave a light haze.

You will need the white or black pad to refine the paint to its original shine and texture."

Confusing me a bit.
Click to expand...


Just to try to help - but it looks like our forum members have already done all the heavy lifting in this thread. (Thanks everyone)


A pad, in and of itself can cause micro-marring, which is a type of scratch pattern. I call the scratches a pad can inflict

Pad Haze


Typically, foam CUTTING pads and ANY FIBER pad i.e. microfiber pads - can and will instill scratches into softer paints. When this happens it's called micro-marring or pad haze.


You can fix this simply by re-polishing using a less aggressive pad, for example if you start with a foam cutting pad and see micro-marring or pad haze, switch to a foam polishing or foam finish and re-do the area.


Also note - and this is very important - three things can cause micro-marring in softer paints.

1: Abrasive technology - I type about this a LOT and teach this important aspect in all my detailing classes.

2: Pad type and aggressiveness - See what I wrote above.

3: Type of tool action - a gear drive tool, both rotary and orbital, or both more aggressive than free spinning orbital and can accentuate micro-marring or pad haze.



Here's an article I wrote about using cleaner/waxes, or as many call them AIOs (same thing). It talks about pad haze.


Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips




Save yourself a lot of time and money and never skimp when it comes to abrasive technology.




:)
 
bigterp said:
Do you recommend the Thinpro pads over the regular LC flat pads? I was thinking the flat pads would be a bit more forgiving. They are also more economical.



For LC pads in general, do you recommend the white pad for the final polishing step? For the flat pads there is also green, blue and black that are labeled as finishing pads. Really not sure which color I should get for that step. Aggression from most to least it goes white, green, blue then black. But they say "Compounding with a yellow or orange pad may leave a light haze. You will need the white or black pad to refine the paint to its original shine and texture. The blue pad will then give you a uniform wax application." Confusing me a bit. After looking at the Thinpro pads, I think I'll at least pick up one of those in red just for wax application.
Click to expand...

To your first question, the answer is yes. But either Thinpro or the standard thickness LC Flat Pads will work quite fine also. I have tons of the regular thickness Flat LC Pads. They work beautifully with my PC7424XP, Griots Boss 15, and Griots 3" Machines.

To your following questions and observations, yes, you pretty much have all correct.. Polishing can be done with any of the softest pads, such as red, blue, black. Certain paints might require such soft pads for polishing because of having paint that's ultra soft.

There's many factors that vary aggressiveness, the coarseness of the liquid polishes-compounds themselves, the amount of downward pressure applied on the machine while polishing, how many passes done in a section pass, machine speed.
 
Didn't read Mike Phillips earlier comments about Pad Haze, and such.

Thanks Mike for chiming in.

Like the one Santana Song, "I'll be waiting,......waiting just for you!" :-)

YouTube
 
mckobe said:
But then you start doing your neighbors cars, your friends cars. Compliment after compliment. Then you start doing it professionally
Click to expand...

Not me, dude.

Too old and broken for all that. ;)
 
I know many might be thinking I've "Over-Posted" on this thread, going on and on, surely on a roll huh?

I didn't get so "smart" on my own, I have so many of you here to thank in appreciation for beginning to think straight with some sound ideas and processes in my head. Yep, you folks helped me a lot, and the head guru and master here, Mike Phillips.

I can only further say that we all treat our newcoming folks in a kind and helpful manner. We want them to stick around, and enjoy and benefit from this forum. At first it might be for their benefit, but who knows, sometimes the student surpasses the teacher, and they can one day help many others.
!
 
MarkD51 said:
I know many might be thinking I've "Over-Posted" on this thread, going on and on, surely on a roll huh?

I didn't get so "smart" on my own, I have so many of you here to thank in appreciation for beginning to think straight with some sound ideas and processes in my head. Yep, you folks helped me a lot, and the head guru and master here, Mike Phillips.

I can only further say that we all treat our newcoming folks in a kind and helpful manner. We want them to stick around, and enjoy and benefit from this forum. At first it might be for their benefit, but who knows, sometimes the student surpasses the teacher, and they can one day help many others.
!
Click to expand...

No way, Mark!

Any posts with helpful advice are the things AGO is all about. I like to add a splash of humor here & there, but I try to do the same.

I remember when I was new, and this whole thing was incredibly confusing to start.

Enter the fine AGO family, and with a ton of reading/research/brain-picking, I was ready to dive in.

And the "diving in" is really the MOST helpful thing you can do for yourself. You can only gain so much knowledge before the actual hands-on has to take over.
 
Auto detailing is and can be a very rewarding hobby.

I recall when I got back into such when I joined this Forum back in 2012, shortly after I began acquiring all the needed tools and chemicals, studied techniques, asked countless questions.

The D/A was a new animal in my arsenal, coming from old school use of a Rotary Polisher, and Orbital Wax Machines.

My daily driver, a 2003 Kia Spectra back then was really starting to look shabby, being a daily driver, getting beat on a daily basis with the Southern New Mexico searing sun, the almost daily dusts and dust storms that would occur, particularly during the summer monsoon season. No garage, only a metal Carport, rushing makeshift washes at a spray wash with a couple of towels, nothing more, etc.

Was amazed at how well, how relatively easy and as well how safe that the use of the D/A Machine was! I was definitely sold and hooked!

My junker Kia was looking so good, that I'd often stand there for many minutes and just walk around and gawk at the shine, the mirror-like reflections, the absence of swirls and haze, looking like a deep wet candy apple. it was a nice sense and feeling of personal pride and accomplishment.

As time went on, the many members here would extoll the advantages of this product, that product for polishing paint, dressing tires, shampoos, tools, pads, on and on. And yes, I tagged along all these years. There was always some new "latest and greatest" product coming to market and yes, I sure wanted to try and experience them myself too!

Just in the 7 years that I've been here, there again has been some considerable advances made. Many more tools to be had, the paint coatings, tire coatings, trim products, on and on with seemingly no end. Things continue to get better and better with each passing day, and it's nice that Autogeek is on the leading edge of all these newfound ideas and equipment to aid the detailing hobby.

Today, I'm just as happy and as proud to be a member here, as I was the day I joined.
 
Well, I'm all in now. Took advantage of AG's 25% off sale and free shipping and ordered the following:

-GG6
-LC 5-1/2" flat pads (6 white, 4 orange, 2 black)
-3" DA backing plate (I already have various 3" pads from a drill kit I ordered to do my headlights). Should be sufficient for tight
areas. Will probably upgrade these pads at some point
-8oz ONR to dillute for QD and clay lube. Have heard good things and it's very economical
-A few spray bottles for the ONR
-A few dispensing bottles for my compound, polish and wax
-Forever black bumper and trim dye kit (hoping this brings back my bed trim and running boards which are pretty faded)

Thanks again for all the help, advice, tips, suggestions, etc., etc. Much appreciated!! Anxious to get working on our vehicles. I'll be sure to keep you guys updated on how everything works out.

One last question. My truck has tie downs bolted through the bed panels. 10 total, 4 on each side and 2 on the tailgate. I hated them at first. But have already gotten some good use out of them, so they have grown on me. Issue is they are pretty pitted and ratty looking. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe they are chrome plated just by the looks of them. Any suggestions on how to at least clean them up and get them looking a bit better?
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