New to Obsessive Car Care

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Nikkxx

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Hello everyone.

I just bought my 1st brand new car in May. It's a 2011 Dodge Charger R/T Max in brilliant black (with metal fleck). I have been consumed with maintaining it's showroom appearance. I wash it weekly with Mother's California Gold car wash, 2 microfiber wash mitts, and 2 gritguard wash buckets. For spot cleaning, I use Mother's Showtime Instant Detailer and microfiber towels. I have never detailed or even waxed a car before, so all of this is new to me.

I have watched the YouTube videos for car detailing, including Mike Phillip's videos. I was so convinced that I could do detail my car based off of what I watched and read, that I purchased:
  1. Porter Cable 7424XP
  2. Lake Country CCS 6.5" pads: 1 yellow, 1 orange, 1 green, 2 white, 2 blue, 2 black, and 1 red.
  3. Mother's California Gold Clay Bar kit
  4. Mother's California Gold Ultimate 3-step wax system.
....all purchased from Auto Geek.

On Friday, I washed and claybarred the car. Saturday, I spent all day waxing the car with the step 1 cleaner wax, the Porter Cable 7424XP, and I started with the white pads but then switched to the black pads. I ended up with a lot of white residual dust, that I removed with the detail spray and microfiber.

On Sunday, I intended to do step 2 (glaze and sealant) but I goofed and grabbed the step 3 (carnauba wax) by mistake. I didn't realize my mistake until I was halfway done with the car. I finished the car with the step 3, PC, and blue pads.

The car has an amazing, wet looking shine! The metal fleck really stands out more than it has since I bought the car! Here's the but, I have spiderwebs, and scratches everywhere that I can only see under certain light, but when I can, it makes the hood, doors, trunk, and rear bumper look really bad. I am not sure what I did wrong. There were a few lines in the paint before I started, but now I have full blown swirl patterns.

Any ideas about what I did wrong and advice on how to correct the problems? Professional detailing really isn't an option unless I go to the dealer. The professional detail shops, near where I live, do not use 2 bucket washing, grit guards, and one of the shop managers told me "they do not clay paint, they buff it."

Sorry for the length of the post and thanks for any help you guys can give.
 
Welcome to AG!

what kind of microfibers are you using? It's important to have good paint grade microfibres that you fold into eighths and inspect frequently for contamination.

It's also possible that your pads got dirty and grit was ground against the paint. Could have also come from clay that was not kneaded frequently enough.

Unfortunately, to get rid of those swirls you will now have to remove some clearcoat. You might want to look into the M105/205 combo or the Megs Microfibre 5.5 inch kit.
 
welcome aboard. consider adding a foam gun to your quiver to help remove a lot of grime before you start with the wash mits. it really helps avoid micro marring.

budinsc
 
There are number of things that could have caused it but if I picked one it could be you dry buffed the step 1 over the car (pre-wax cleaner should not be buffed dry and you need to clean the pad as you go) and you essentially polished the paint with the dust.

But there are a bunch of possible reasons: wiping too hard during washing, drying, not working clean (wash mitts, towels, or during polishes, etc), etc. You could have done it removing the dried step 1.

You should be able to correct it easily since you have a PC.
 
:welcome: Nikkxx. You have come to the right place. First, don't panic. The experts here will get you back on track and help you to have that nice new vehicle back in show car shine shape. I agree about the Megs M105\205 combo but you will soon see that there are a lot of ways to attack this. Just be patient and answer the questions asked of you. These guys are tops in assisting, instructing and recomending the right action to take. Good luck with the new car.
 
That Mothers system doesn't have a mechanical polish. The step one is just a pre-wax cleaner that has no mechanical abrasives in it. So chances were that the scratches were already there. The glaze the Dodge dealers use on that black has a ton of fillers in it and does mask those swirls really well so chances they were there and you just uncovered them using the pre wax cleaner.

I would look into purchasing the Wolfgang twins or Menz Power finish and Menz Super Finish. I would rather use 5.5inch thin pads than the 6.5 inch ones you have....but fear not, just be patient with the 6.5inch pads and you will get great results.
 
perfect chance to spend some more money, ive been hearing great reviews about the pinnacle xmt series polishes/compounds and there on buy one get one free right now...dr.oldz is correct the mothers probly uncovered what was already present. if you do make another order get some thing like carpro's eraser or do a mix of isopropyl alcohol+ distilled water in a spray bottle. use one of those to wipe down paint after your done with correction to see if the swirls/scratches was removed and not "filled". of course do a test spot first to figure out what product/pad combination will work for correction..good luck to you
 
budinsc said:
welcome aboard. consider adding a foam gun to your quiver to help remove a lot of grime before you start with the wash mits. it really helps avoid micro marring.

budinsc
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm sorry, I left out that I do have a soap gun.
 
embolism said:
Welcome to AG!

what kind of microfibers are you using? It's important to have good paint grade microfibres that you fold into eighths and inspect frequently for contamination.

It's also possible that your pads got dirty and grit was ground against the paint. Could have also come from clay that was not kneaded frequently enough.

Unfortunately, to get rid of those swirls you will now have to remove some clearcoat. You might want to look into the M105/205 combo or the Megs Microfibre 5.5 inch kit.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

I have microfibers that I bought from a local auto parts store but they are small, 6"x6" and I only use those for spot cleaning with detail spray, glass, tires, and interior cleaning. They are color coded and dedicated to their purpose. I also have some Mother's microfiber towels, and I bought Auto Geek's complete microfiber kit. I check them after each wipe for dirt and if dirty, I fold over to a clean portion. I wash them after each use and check them again after each wash.

The clay was kneaded after each 2'x2' section and kneaded even if there was no visible contamination.

It is possible that I didn't wash the pads frequently enough, I didn't realize that I needed to clean and switch pads until I was almost done with step 1.
 
Bunky said:
There are number of things that could have caused it but if I picked one it could be you dry buffed the step 1 over the car (pre-wax cleaner should not be buffed dry and you need to clean the pad as you go) and you essentially polished the paint with the dust.

But there are a bunch of possible reasons: wiping too hard during washing, drying, not working clean (wash mitts, towels, or during polishes, etc), etc. You could have done it removing the dried step 1.

You should be able to correct it easily since you have a PC.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does seem that the pads and/or step 1 is the probable cause. I have been really, really careful with the washing and drying of the car. I am even more meticulous with the condition of my mitts and towels. Everything I read and watched stated that how you wash and the care of your washing, drying, and polishing materials are critical to prevent scratching of the paint.

Hence my frustration at the discovery of all those swirls. :doh:
 
Dr Oldz said:
That Mothers system doesn't have a mechanical polish. The step one is just a pre-wax cleaner that has no mechanical abrasives in it. So chances were that the scratches were already there. The glaze the Dodge dealers use on that black has a ton of fillers in it and does mask those swirls really well so chances they were there and you just uncovered them using the pre wax cleaner.

I would look into purchasing the Wolfgang twins or Menz Power finish and Menz Super Finish. I would rather use 5.5inch thin pads than the 6.5 inch ones you have....but fear not, just be patient with the 6.5inch pads and you will get great results.
Click to expand...

Good info on the Dodge glaze! Thanks. I went with the Mother's stuff because I thought that it would be non-abrasive. I wanted a safe product that wouldn't harm the paint despite my inexperience and I didn't think that a new car would have filled swirls.

I also have the 4" pads. How many pads of each type or color do I need per coat?

I am really nervous about using cutting pads, and abrasive products. Can I inadvertently cause any serious damage with the Wolfgang or Menz products? What about with the Meguiars microfiber kit or M105/205? XMT?
 
Welcome to AGO!

To me it doesn't matter if the scratches were already there or you accidentaly put them there. Just be as careful as you can every time you touch your car and it should be ok! Some swirls and scratches are almost impossible to avoid, especially on a daily driver car. So now lets focus on the problem at hand, how to remove them.

Don't be scared about using abrasive products, I have a PC 7424XP and its ALMOST goof proof. The Wolfgang and Menzerna line's are great products, you should be fine with either of those. I use M105/M205 and they work out great! As far as the XMT line goes, I've heard and experienced great results with the XMT 360 (it's and AIO product) but as far as the other XMT products go I think there are better options. Not that they are bad by any measure, but there are just better ones.

When I got my PC I got the starter kit that came with the 6.5" pads. After reading more I decided to get the 5.5" pads, they work much better IMO. Just takes a little more time with the 6.5's. I've never used the Meguiars Microfiber pads but I hear good things!

Hope some of that helped! Good luck and you in the right place!
 
Nikkxx said:
Good info on the Dodge glaze! Thanks. I went with the Mother's stuff because I thought that it would be non-abrasive. I wanted a safe product that wouldn't harm the paint despite my inexperience and I didn't think that a new car would have filled swirls.

I also have the 4" pads. How many pads of each type or color do I need per coat?

I am really nervous about using cutting pads, and abrasive products. Can I inadvertently cause any serious damage with the Wolfgang or Menz products? What about with the Meguiars microfiber kit or M105/205? XMT?
Click to expand...

You nervousness is very understandable. Honestly the WG and Menz are very safe as is using a DA. It is almost impossible to ruin your paint with a DA. I can't comment on the meguiars MF's because I have never used them. I have worked on a good number of Dodge's sprayed in that color(including my own truck) and can tell you that the Menz and/or WG polishes work amazing. The hydro tech pads are a great choice and keep it simple with only three choice of pad agressiveness while finishing down superbly. Also if you really dont feel comfortable with using a mechanical polish perhaps you can try the Mothers phase 2 that you skipped as that has some fillers that may hide your swirls.
 
Is the Dodge glaze really so effective that it would be there wash after wash? There was a whole debate recently about the effectiveness of glazes and their ability (or inability) to be "locked in" with a topper

OP mentioned that he washes weekly and only noticed all the scratching after doing this recent detail. To me that means he never really looked at the paint in the right lighting before or something happened during his process...
 
Nikkxx said:
Hello everyone.

I just bought my 1st brand new car in May. It's a 2011 Dodge Charger R/T Max in brilliant black (with metal fleck). I have been consumed with maintaining it's showroom appearance. I wash it weekly with Mother's California Gold car wash, 2 microfiber wash mitts, and 2 gritguard wash buckets. For spot cleaning, I use Mother's Showtime Instant Detailer and microfiber towels. I have never detailed or even waxed a car before, so all of this is new to me.
Click to expand...

Congrats on the new car and don't worry, we're here to see you through to success...




Nikkxx said:
I have watched the YouTube videos for car detailing, including Mike Phillip's videos. I was so convinced that I could do detail my car based off of what I watched and read, that I purchased:
  1. Porter Cable 7424XP
  2. Lake Country CCS 6.5" pads: 1 yellow, 1 orange, 1 green, 2 white, 2 blue, 2 black, and 1 red.
  3. Mother's California Gold Clay Bar kit
  4. Mother's California Gold Ultimate 3-step wax system.
....all purchased from Auto Geek.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your patronage...

The Mothers 3-step system is very good system that has been around for a while and has a strong and loyal following and actually, on a brand new car without any defects it's a great system to maintain a show car shine.



Nikkxx said:
Saturday, I spent all day waxing the car with the step 1 cleaner wax, the Porter Cable 7424XP, and I started with the white pads but then switched to the black pads. I ended up with a lot of white residual dust, that I removed with the detail spray and microfiber.
Click to expand...

A one-step cleaner/wax can be used in a number of different ways, if it offers abrading ability, it can be used to remove swirls out of a neglected finish.

If it's non-abrasive, then it can be used to maintain paint already in great shape but exposed to the elements as a daily driver.

It should not be buffed until it's dry or you lose lubrication and the potential for instilling marring, haze or swirls becomes possible.


Nikkxx said:
Here's the but, I have spiderwebs, and scratches everywhere that I can only see under certain light, but when I can, it makes the hood, doors, trunk, and rear bumper look really bad. I am not sure what I did wrong. There were a few lines in the paint before I started, but now I have full blown swirl patterns.

Any ideas about what I did wrong and advice on how to correct the problems?
Click to expand...

Regardless of the exact cause, we'll see you through to success...

Nikkxx said:
Professional detailing really isn't an option unless I go to the dealer. The professional detail shops, near where I live, do not use 2 bucket washing, grit guards, and one of the shop managers told me "they do not clay paint, they buff it."
Click to expand...

The dealership is only an option if you want swirls.

DISO = The Dealership Installed Swirl Option


The most knowledgeable people on the topic of detailing will be people that hangout on forums like this. It doesn't sound like the "Shop Manager" hangs out on detailing discussion forums, which I don't expect as that is the norm... avoid getting any future advice from these sources.




Bunky said:
There are number of things that could have caused it but if I picked one it could be you dry buffed the step 1 over the car (pre-wax cleaner should not be buffed dry and you need to clean the pad as you go) and you essentially polished the paint with the dust.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking is the cause... but that also means the swirls will be shallow and easily removed. (silver lining)


Dr Oldz said:
I would look into purchasing the Wolfgang twins or Menz Power finish and Menz Super Finish. I would rather use 5.5inch thin pads than the 6.5 inch ones you have....but fear not, just be patient with the 6.5inch pads and you will get great results.
Click to expand...


It's always hard to make recommendations without being there in person to do a Test Spot, but chances are good that you don't need a full-on compound like M105 but only a medium or fine polish.

We use Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover and Advanced Finishing Polish in all our Saturday Classes because they work great and are impossible to make any mistakes with when used correctly. My guess is the Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover would remove all the swirls and leave behind a better than new show car finish.

Menzerna SIP would also be a great choice for use with a DA

After you remove the swirls you could go to wax or what a lot of serious enthusiasts with dark colored cars will do is to re-polish again only using a less aggressive polish and pad and then go to wax.

Both of these products,

Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover
Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish


will take care of your car's finish, just like they did here,

1966 Corvette Stingray - Machine Polish & Machine Wax

Pinnacle66Vette04.jpg




More important is after you remove the swirls and scratches, do your best to obtain and use the best quality products that "touch" the paint so you don't put swirls and scratches back into the paint.


How to maintain a freshly waxed car


:xyxthumbs:
 
Maybe in addition I'm wondering if the dealership dressed up the paint with some glaze before you bought the car to give it a little extra shine and hide any minor defects...it's done at the one I work at and most dealerships I would bet; It's just a show glaze that will wear away after a wash or two. Maybe a possibility in your case also?

Cars at dealership are run through the swirl-o-matic machine by "Porters" (I use to be one) when they're dirty. Also the snow brushes used in the winter aren't great on the clearcoats (if your car sat on the lot during the pervious winter). This is why a dealership would apply a glaze.

So, maybe the glaze has washed away and your seeing the paint for the condition it's in. I'm also a huge fan of the Megs 105/205 correction process! :xyxthumbs:

Just my 2cents. Best of luck!
 
embolism said:
Is the Dodge glaze really so effective that it would be there wash after wash?
Click to expand...

Jim's point was that dealers (nothing unique to Dodge) may apply glazes prior to delivery to hide imperfections.

In the end no matter what the real reason, it can be corrected and then he needs to be sure his washing/drying process is good as to reduce them coming back.
 
Dr Oldz said:
That Mothers system doesn't have a mechanical polish. The step one is just a pre-wax cleaner that has no mechanical abrasives in it. So chances were that the scratches were already there. The glaze the Dodge dealers use on that black has a ton of fillers in it and does mask those swirls really well so chances they were there and you just uncovered them using the pre wax cleaner.

I would look into purchasing the Wolfgang twins or Menz Power finish and Menz Super Finish. I would rather use 5.5inch thin pads than the 6.5 inch ones you have....but fear not, just be patient with the 6.5inch pads and you will get great results.
Click to expand...

I also give :props: to Wolfgang Twins and the Menz products!
 
Thanks for all of the great information guys.

The car has to go back to the dealer for loose body panels that I discovered while waxing it. Passenger side fender and front bumper, both kick panels, and something in the A-pillar are loose.

When it comes back, I will be addressing the swirls and I will want to start with the least aggressive product and work my way up. I already have in my possession Mother's California Gold Scratch Remover and Meguiar's Mirror Glaze 9 Professional Swirl Remover 2.0. Are these "filler" products? What level of aggressiveness are these products, compared to the Pinnacle, Wolfgang, Meguiar's M105/M205, and Menzerna products?

Which pads should be used with which product? How many pads should I have per product, so that I don't have to wash them in the middle of the job?
Using the Pinnacle products recommended by Mike, would I need to follow the Finishing Polish with another product?

Do you guys tape off the rubber, plastic and unpainted parts of the car before using your machines?

Is there a better wash product than the Mother's California Gold, I am using?

Sorry for all the questions.
 
Nikkxx said:
Thanks for all of the great information guys.

The car has to go back to the dealer for loose body panels that I discovered while waxing it. Passenger side fender and front bumper, both kick panels, and something in the A-pillar are loose.

When it comes back, I will be addressing the swirls and I will want to start with the least aggressive product and work my way up. I already have in my possession Mother's California Gold Scratch Remover and Meguiar's Mirror Glaze 9 Professional Swirl Remover 2.0. Are these "filler" products? What level of aggressiveness are these products, compared to the Pinnacle, Wolfgang, Meguiar's M105/M205, and Menzerna products?

Which pads should be used with which product? How many pads should I have per product, so that I don't have to wash them in the middle of the job?
Using the Pinnacle products recommended by Mike, would I need to follow the Finishing Polish with another product?

Do you guys tape off the rubber, plastic and unpainted parts of the car before using your machines?

Is there a better wash product than the Mother's California Gold, I am using?

Sorry for all the questions.
Click to expand...

.....not the kick panels, the lower side mouldings.
 
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