Newbie & white paint.

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I’m hoping someone could give me some advice on polishing white paint. I have a 1980 Trans Am and I’m not getting the desired result that I would like. It is mostly original paint, the hood, 2 front fender and nose were repainted in 1986. With all the product out there and me being a newbie it’s confusing on which product will give me the best possible results. I decided to do half the trunk lid and do a side by side comparison but when finished I didn’t really notice any difference. I have both GG 6 & 3in polishers. After washing and claying I first used Pinnacle XMT 360 with LC CCS white pad, then used Meguiar’s #7 Show Car Glaze, followed up with DP Max Wax High Gloss Carnauba Paste Wax. I decided to go a little more aggressive on the other half of trunk lid and used LC CCS orange pad with Pinnacle XMT #3 swirl remover. Not seeing much of a difference I decided to ask for help. It’s not that the paint is all that bad, I’m just looking for something that will make it look better.

View attachment 14582
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XMT 360 has light polishes; very good to use on a maintenance detail, not on a major correction that you are looking to do.

XMT3 is a medium polish.

Assuming your technique is spot-on (pressure, speed, section passes, etc...) then the only way to make it better would be to use a compound and CCS Orange/Yellow. After compounding then you can use XMT3, then finally XMT360 -or- MEGS7. You can top off with DP if you like after that.

I don't know if a 1980 Trans Am is single-stage, but if you know some panels have been repainted, they may have CC on them. In short, you may need to adjust your correction approach depending on the panel.

In my head here is how I see things moving forward:

1- Compound (???)
2- Medium Polish (you have XMT3)
3- Fine Polish/Glaze (you have M7 & XMT 360)
4- LSP (you have DP Max Wax)

Questions:

1) What speed settings did you use with XMT3 and XMT360?

2) Were you using a good amount of pressure with XMT3 and CCS Orange (15lbs. or so)?

3) What else do you have in your compound, polish and pad inventory?

Check this article out as well....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...w-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

from this index of MP articles....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ke-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html
 
Hi Paul,

The closeup photo looks like the paint has aged and due to the number of years under its belt it's starting to check a bit... is it like this all over the car or just in sections?

The pad and product you used are not very aggressive at all which is why you didn't see much improvement. XMT 360 is a fine polish and while the white foam pad is a great choice when using it I'm not surprised to see little impact on your finish.

Do you know if it's single stage or two stage paint?

What do you have for pads and products?

What I would try is some Meguiar's Ultimate Compound on an Orange pad and speed setting 5. Don't forget to correctly prime the pad before you start otherwise the product will be absorbed into the pad rather than work on the finish...



Work on 1 section and gauge your progress to determine what's working and what's not...
 
Thanks for the quick replies guys and I’ll try to answer both of your questions. Sorry for the crappie pictures. It looks like the paint on the trunk lid is probably the worst area. I believe the car has CC on it, before I started I used a blue applicator pad with some Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and did not see any white paint on pad. The Megs Compound has been sitting on shelf for a while, may have to get new bottle. Before starting with DA polisher I did properly prime pads and spread product at #2 speed, then bumped speed up to 5½ and did 5-6 section passes. I made sure I used good technique and pressure, so I think I’m good there.
For the GG 6in polisher I have LC CCS orange, white, black and blue pads. The GG 3in, I have GG orange, red, and white pads. I also have the XMT #1 thru #3 swirl removers along with ½ bottle of Meg Ultimate Compound. I’ve had the Megs for a while, I’m sure there is a shelf life but I don’t see it on the bottle. I’m thinking I may need to get a LC CCS yellow pad and maybe a little more aggressive swirl remover (XMT #4 maybe? Suggestions?).
 
OK, cool to MUC didn't help. You must have some hard paint on that vehicle.

I recommend you go with M105 or Menzerna compounds and a couple of LC HT FLAT cutting pads. The flat pads will be a slight bump in cutting ability compared to the CCS pads.
 
The texture on that paint looks so bad that I would go for sandpaper to smooth it down. I can't imagine great results using just a pad and compound getting phenomenal results. If the paint thickness is there, I would sand with 3000 grit, and move up to 2500 or 2000 if it wasn't cutting it. I would use a foam sanding pad and water in a spray bottle with a drop or two of car wash soap mixed in, and keep it very wet when sanding. Sure there will be sanding scratches to deal with later, but if you can get away with 3000 or 25000, it will be a lot easier than trying to shine that with a pad.

You need to be really careful and check the paper often for little dots of built up paint on it and clean them off immediately using another piece of paper with some water sprayed on and then rubbing them against each other. A piece of paint on paper can act like an abrasive and gouge the paint badly, like a piece of grit from a much coarser sandpaper. Also, the edges of sandpaper are sharp, so you need to only sand one way with the paper. Never sand diagonal or perpendicular with the edge of the paper if you can help it.

You of course must have an immaculate surface first, with zero dirt, and after claying. Iron X would be a good idea, too.

When you sand, you go with light pressure and let the paper do the work. Never press down hard when wet sanding. If you press down hard, the paper loads up with paint really quickly, and that can cause deep scratches quickly.
Wet sanding takes great care and precision to not do too much damage. If you aren't up for it, don't do it.

With something as bad as that paint looks, I would at least try to knock down the really high spots and make the area a lot more smooth, even if I didn't want to get it perfect, which requires a lot more work.

I'm sure mike Phillips has a video on wet sanding somewhere.
 
check out what Mike is doing in Nebraska for the past 2 days "Helping in the Heartland". They are restoring a vintage AMC. The process includes wet-sanding, compounding, and polishing.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i_rmKAUa1Y&list=PLf9SO3pQlzJ8pCYEhZ7YbZxR4kVhDXW02&index=1]Helping in the Heartland - episode 1 - YouTube[/video]
 
Hi Paul. Great looking T/A! I believe you may have single stage paint on your car. I'm not going from the pics, just the year. My '79 Z was single stage (white, GM code 11 if memory serves). Pretty sure it was laquer from the way it cracked all over. Also, I remember my first experience with basecoat/clearcoat refinishing wasn't until 1987. But hey, I could have been way behind the curve then too. Hope this better helps you choose your weapons. Good luck!
 
The Trans Am didn't have a clear coat until the latter part of the 1980's. I would bet that yours doesn't have CC.
 
The Trans Am didn't have a clear coat until the latter part of the 1980's. I would bet that yours doesn't have CC.
I believe Ferrari was still using single stage in the mid 90's. On the other hand, I hear that Lincoln was the first American car to have clear coat in 1977. Apparently, GM started getting more into clear coat in the early 80's. I hear second gen Camaros (and I am guessing Firebirds and Trans Ams as well) never had clear coat.

When in doubt, get some polish and test an inconspicuous spot, and see if color comes off on the cloth. If color comes off immediately, then it is non clear coat paint (Or the clear coat has gone away) If there is no color on the cloth, it's clear coated. Of course, with white, you will need a dark cloth, and perhaps a polish that isn't already white to see if any white paint is coming off onto the cloth. If you have a white polish, it will make it very difficult to distinguish between any white paint that comes off and the polish itself. In addition, white paint is the hardest paint there is, because of the titanium dioxide in it that makes it look so bright, as opposed to the carbon in black paint that makes black paint so dark and is so soft. Mike Phillips mentioned this in one of his articles.

It is easy to understand how someone would have a difficult time figuring out if one's white paint is single stage or is clear coated.
 
As much as I respect your advice on wet sanding it kind of scares me to do this, mainly because I’ve never done it. Here are some products that I’m thinking about trying, let me know what you think. Menzerna Power Gloss Compound (PG 1000) along with Lake Country Hydro-Tech 5 1/2 x 7/8 Inch Blue Foam Pad. Good or bad, let me know what you think.
 
As much as I respect your advice on wet sanding it kind of scares me to do this, mainly because I’ve never done it. Here are some products that I’m thinking about trying, let me know what you think. Menzerna Power Gloss Compound (PG 1000) along with Lake Country Hydro-Tech 5 1/2 x 7/8 Inch Blue Foam Pad. Good or bad, let me know what you think.
I have never used Menzerna Power Gloss, so I cannot definitely say how well it works. my understanding is that it is a heavy cutting compound with a cut of 10.
Autogeek Swirl Removers & Compounds Comparison Chart

Given the severity of the paint defects, I would say it is something I might try. If not wet sanding, I would reach for compound, at least to get a big improvement quickly. On small areas like that cowl section, I would work by hand. You only need compound to get the really bad areas.
I have used rubbing compound by hand on white lacquer paint before.
I would be hesitant to try to remove all of the defects with it unless I knew the paint was thick enough, though. I would shoot for big improvement when in doubt. You would probably need to then use a swirl remover and certainly a finishing glaze/polish after that for the best look.

As far as the blue pad, every one I have met is soft for finessing polish or finishing glaze, and is not what I would use with Menzerna Power Gloss.

If it was my car, I would compound by hand the really bad areas, and then finish by machine to remove the marring caused by the compound, and the rest of the car. It looks like you will probably need at least an orange pad to start with on the da, followed by white and black.
Autogeek Buffing Pad Comparison Chart

Blue pads aren't really for polishing.
 
Umm.... gents..... he said he wanted the make the paint look "better". I didn't read that to be "perfect" by any stretch so suggesting wet sanding is a bit much. I'm not complaining nor trying to be a pain; just trying to bring us back to the original poster's center and focus on what he wants.
 
I am far from seasoned but the roof of my yukon looked just like your pictures after I used advanced swirl remover from pinnacle and an orange lc pad... I changed to a yellow pad after some hesitation and was able to get the paint to smooth out much much easier. Maybe try a more aggressive pad first if that dosent work try bumping to a more aggressive product. Menzerna makes a good compound (y)
 
Umm.... gents..... he said he wanted the make the paint look "better". I didn't read that to be "perfect" by any stretch so suggesting wet sanding is a bit much. I'm not complaining nor trying to be a pain; just trying to bring us back to the original poster's center and focus on what he wants.

Like I said before:

"I would be hesitant to try to remove all of the defects with it unless I knew the paint was thick enough, though. I would shoot for big improvement when in doubt."

The only way to get that severe texture out is to level the paint, and the quickest way to do that is to wet sand. Using 3000 grit paper carefully really isn't that big of a deal. You also don't need to sand the defects out COMPLETELY to make a big improvement. Sanding out half the texture down would be a huge improvement, without going for perfection, in a short amount of time.

Shooting for perfection by trying to sand ALL of the defects out is a totally different situation. As long as the deepest cut that the paper makes does not cut the deepest valleys of the paint, any particularly deep cuts by the paper will be smoothed out by the polishing, and I contend that the overall look will be improved, without causing excessive damage. I believe a partial sanding combined with a buffing will yield better results in a shorter time than by attempting to smooth it down by buffing alone.

Besides, the buffing pad is flexible and conforms to the overall shape of the panel. That means that while using the buffer to try to subdue those high spots, the surrounding area will be made unnecessarily thin. If you sand, you can carefully control the area you areworking on to only eliminate the really bad spots in a certain area without unduly thinning the surrounding paint.

It's sort of like putting a lot of pressure on a buffer to get the flatter area and inadvertently buffing through an edge, when you use a buffer alone to take down high spots. I would rather control how much material I need to remove, where I want to remove it as much as possible, and that means working by hand, with some wet and dry.

Would you use a buffer to remove a nib in the paint, or would you take a piece of sandpaper and sand JUST that little nib down, to match the level of the surrounding paint?

If you still disagree with me, that's ok. If someone isn't totally comfortable wet sanding, they shouldn't.

Just to reiterate though, always use the least aggressive methods first.
 
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