Next step in reducing risk of scratching paint

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prr

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This last week, I just saw a few scratches in both vehicles, a day or so after washing. They were very short and straight, and one was in the back door, so its unlikely that this was caused by rocks hitting the paint as I'm driving. I'm not 100% convinced that they were created when I washed and waxed the car, but there certainly is a possibility.

Here is my regimen. Can folks suggest one more/different step, that would be the most likely to reduce future scratches?

I rinse off the car with the shower setting on my nozzle (not a hard narrow stream, but not a "bubbler/soak" setting either). I have a grit guard in my 5 ga bucket. Now my sponge is old, and it is falling apart. I don't have specialy sponges, just cheap Target/Dollar tree sponges. Regardless, I push down on the sponge (when it is in the bucket) against teh grit guard to remove any debris that might have gotten caught, then I turn it over and sometimes push down again, and then pull it out with a fresh load of soap. Most of the time I remember to wipe the sponge in straight lines.

After rinsing the soap off with the hose, I use a Meguiars waffle weave towel to get most of the water, and then follow it up with a plain microfiber towel. When I do wax, I wax immediately after rinsing and then drying the car, so its not likely at all that my waxing scratched the paint.

OK let's play devil's advocate and assume my routine has introduced scratches. What new step would be the best to reduce the chances of this happening again? I know some folks use a two bucket system, but if you are letting debris fall from your sponge into the first bucket, you really shouldn't need a second bucket, should you? If it falls down below teh grit guard, you should be good, right?
 
It hard to say. It could be something stuck in your wash media, it could have been something stuck to the paint enough that it didn't wash away, but it was pulled free with the drying towel.

Some may say ditch the sponge, but I'd say just grab a couple new ones and dedicate one to the top(cleaner) areas, one for the lower areas, and use the old one for wheels.

You could also pick up a blower, like a metro sidekick, and blow as much water off as you can, then use a drying aid(spray wax, quick detailer, ect) as you dry to try to add some extra lubricity.

And always use a clean folded drying towel, fold and flip to a new side often.
 
Mantilgh said:
It hard to say. It could be something stuck in your wash media, it could have been something stuck to the paint enough that it didn't wash away, but it was pulled free with the drying towel.

Some may say ditch the sponge, but I'd say just grab a couple new ones and dedicate one to the top(cleaner) areas, one for the lower areas, and use the old one for wheels.

You could also pick up a blower, like a metro sidekick, and blow as much water off as you can, then use a drying aid(spray wax, quick detailer, ect) as you dry to try to add some extra lubricity.

And always use a clean folded drying towel, fold and flip to a new side often.
Click to expand...

My towels are rinsed off, and then wrung out and hung to dry, then put into a ziplock bag until used again. And I do have a dedicated sponge for wheels. But I suppose I could use a different one for top and bottom parts of the car, although both of the cars' scratches were on the top areas (hood of one car, back door of the other).
 
First off, Invest in a better wash media. Sponges....not really, or at least get good quality sponges if you must use a sponge. Try and get at least a Chenile wash mitt to make life easier.

Your next step, get another grit guard and a second bucket. Your biggest mistake is using one bucket. Thats why its called a 2bucket wash. Yes debris falls, but not all of it falls, some rolls around as some debris is extremley light and tiny. Gravity helps the bigger particles a lot. Why risk that? And its just safer as the dirt and debris is in your second bucket. You keep re-introducing the mitt into your soap bucket which is not safe for the paint. Using 2 buckets, the dirt and debris getting reintroduced to your paint reduces by 90% at least.

Third - invest in some decent drying towels. I have noticed waffle weaves scratch my Honda paint, which is why I only use plush 600gsm towels to dry the car. What car do you have and is it soft, medium or hard paint? Plain microfibers are usually stiff or scratchy - I found the same off waffle weaves for my honda paint.

For your initial rinse, try and not use the shower setting. Try a stronger stream like the FAN or JET setting. I like fan the most if I am not using a pressure washer. The fan settings adds some pressure and pushes of heavier debris, which a shower setting would not even touch. Save the shower setting for the last rinse.

Once you rinse off the all the soap, remove the wash gun and just use the slow stream of water to flood rinse/ sheet the water off. This will work if your car has some protection on it. This way you dont have to remove too much water either.

And lastly, maybe get a cheap leaf blower to blow off water, especially from cracks, crevices and such. You don't need something like a metro blower yet. You sound like you are just getting into all this.

Keep costs low and buy the essentials mentioned above.

These sound like a ton of steps, but you would probably only spend 40-50$ for all the above.

Invest in good stuff from the get go as if you don't, you will start investing in polishers, compounds etc. to remove the damage from the cheap wash methods. Correct me if I am wrong, but does not look like you want to take that route...yet.
 
As stated above, throw the sponge away and get a good chenille mitt and another bucket with a grit guard. One for soap and water, the other just for clean water. Approximately 85% of scratches come from improper washing and/or drying a vehicle.
 
Emmjay pretty much nailed it! I would strongly add on to the suggestion of tossing that old wash mitt/sponge thing. At least take mantilgh's suggestion and relegate that old one to wheels and wells. And just to clarify...i use a foam gun and a rinse bucket. I actually use 2 rinse buckets. Are you using a foam gun and a rinse bucket? If you are using the traditonal soapy bucket you absolutely should be using a second bucket with a grit guard and clear water to rinse the mitt after washing that section and before taking up more soap for the next section.

One of the most important things i picked up from Mike P. some years ago is that friction passes can ALWAYS create marring if anything is in the wash media, drying towel etc. I use very light pressure when washing and then the "drip" method to get rid of as much water as the LSP will allow and then blot or blow dry (I do both). And only use super clean wash media and drying towels. I use my WWMF drying towels for 2 vehicles and then i have to wash them. Don't just let them dry and then store them without cleaning them every couple of vehicles. I used to clean mine every single time they were used but letting them dry and checking them to see if they picked anything up, i usually find they are still clean and ok to use one more time. If they did they will introduce scratches on next use!
 
I have a 98 Honda Civic and a 2005 Toyota Sienna. Not sure if either of those are soft, medium, or hard paint. The 98 does have a year old Maaco job (which has held up quite well, btw).

Well I have to say you are making a very good case for all that. Still not sure I want to use a leaf blower (sounds like overkill and an expense I could avoid), but I will look at the other options.

As far as the chenille wash mitt (like this one here: http://www.autogeek.net/gold-plush-wash-mitt.html would that help reduce scratching? Are things like that less likely to retain particles of dirt after picking them up off the paint, and then shaking them inside a bucket?

I'm also reading online that in addition to keeping your sponge from going down to the area of the bucket where the dirt is, a grit guard can be used as an old fashioned washing board---to scrape the sponge against. That also would help remove dirt from the bucket.
 
Puckman said:
Emmjay pretty much nailed it! I would strongly add on to the suggestion of tossing that old wash mitt/sponge thing. At least take mantilgh's suggestion and relegate that old one to wheels and wells. And just to clarify...i use a foam gun and a rinse bucket. I actually use 2 rinse buckets. Are you using a foam gun and a rinse bucket? If you are using the traditonal soapy bucket you absolutely should be using a second bucket with a grit guard and clear water to rinse the mitt after washing that section and before taking up more soap for the next section.
Click to expand...

Toss the junky sponge--why? Because it will hold on to dirt and then scratch the paint with it when it goes back onto the surface?

And while we're at it, is that chenille mitt that I linked to, good for our purpose here? I'd rather not buy it just to find that 6 mos later, there is something else to get. Is that the best product I can get in the $10 range?

I don't ahve a foam gun. I have a nozzle that I can adjust, though I always use the Shower setting on it.
 
emmjaygti said:
First off, Invest in a better wash media. Sponges....not really, or at least get good quality sponges if you must use a sponge. Try and get at least a Chenile wash mitt to make life easier.

Your next step, get another grit guard and a second bucket. Your biggest mistake is using one bucket. Thats why its called a 2bucket wash. Yes debris falls, but not all of it falls, some rolls around as some debris is extremley light and tiny. Gravity helps the bigger particles a lot. Why risk that? And its just safer as the dirt and debris is in your second bucket. You keep re-introducing the mitt into your soap bucket which is not safe for the paint. Using 2 buckets, the dirt and debris getting reintroduced to your paint reduces by 90% at least.Getting the Wash Board (fits over the grit guard) helps to keep the grit on the bottom of the bucket..great invention.

Third - invest in some decent drying towels. I have noticed waffle weaves scratch my Honda paint, which is why I only use plush 600gsm towels to dry the car. What car do you have and is it soft, medium or hard paint? Plain microfibers are usually stiff or scratchy - I found the same off waffle weaves for my honda paint.

For your initial rinse, try and not use the shower setting. Try a stronger stream like the FAN or JET setting. I like fan the most if I am not using a pressure washer. The fan settings adds some pressure and pushes of heavier debris, which a shower setting would not even touch. Save the shower setting for the last rinse.

Once you rinse off the all the soap, remove the wash gun and just use the slow stream of water to flood rinse/ sheet the water off. This will work if your car has some protection on it. This way you dont have to remove too much water either.

And lastly, maybe get a cheap leaf blower to blow off water, especially from cracks, crevices and such. You don't need something like a metro blower yet. You sound like you are just getting into all this.

Keep costs low and buy the essentials mentioned above.

These sound like a ton of steps, but you would probably only spend 40-50$ for all the above.

Invest in good stuff from the get go as if you don't, you will start investing in polishers, compounds etc. to remove the damage from the cheap wash methods. Correct me if I am wrong, but does not look like you want to take that route...yet.
Click to expand...
Good advice.:props:
 
prr said:
I have a 98 Honda Civic and a 2005 Toyota Sienna. Not sure if either of those are soft, medium, or hard paint. The 98 does have a year old Maaco job (which has held up quite well, btw).


Well I have to say you are making a very good case for all that. Still not sure I want to use a leaf blower (sounds like overkill and an expense I could avoid), but I will look at the other options.


As far as the chenille wash mitt (like this one here: Gold Plush Micro-Chenille Wash Mitt, microfiber chenille wash mitt would that help reduce scratching? Are things like that less likely to retain particles of dirt after picking them up off the paint, and then shaking them inside a bucket?


I'm also reading online that in addition to keeping your sponge from going down to the area of the bucket where the dirt is, a grit guard can be used as an old fashioned washing board---to scrape the sponge against. That also would help remove dirt from the bucket.
Click to expand...


They would probably be soft paint. Soft paint scratches and marrs easily. But at the same time its easy peasy to correct.


A little prevention is better than cure.

You don't have to get a leaf blower - I recommend it as its easy, no water drips as soon as you drive off or rolls off the trunk lid. It just makes it cleaner and you touch and rub your paint less. I started with a $16 leaf blower that took 2 years to die. I don't regret it one bit. It also cuts your drying time in half.


The chenile you linked is exactly the one I use. I use the yellow one for paint and black one for wheels. They release dirt better and they are MUCHHH Softer for your paint. A sponge aint soft noe does it hold much dirt. The microfiber chenile effectively traps the dirt in the microfibers....the sponge just keeps it on the surface, so you pretty much drag it accross your paint. I have been using my Chenile wash mitt for a year now...so you're good. Take care of it, as you will read the cleaning step below, it takes care of you (and your cars paint).


The washboard you mention is an ADD-ON to the standard grit guard - effectively making it $20...a cost you can avoid. Use the $10 and get another bucket and grit guard as a rinse bucket. Either way, the washboard is used in the rinse bucket, not the soap bucket.

And the most important part - Wash your wash media when you are done washing so that it is clean for the next time you want to use it. I use Microfiber detergent from 3D called Towel Kleen. I wash everything except my wheel wash mitt. That just gets rinsed as well as I can and used the next time.


P.S. I live halfway accross the world and still use this store and forum for one reason alone - I have learned everything I know about polishing, washing, coatings, you name it - on this very forum, from people who replied to this thread. So believe me, it has paid off bigtime!
 
Folks, you have given me some very good direction here. Much obliged.
 
try using a few different (microfiber, sheepskin, lambswool) wash mitts and see what works for you. if you don't have them already a few grit guards (they are inexpensive and a good preventive measure). also.. a leaf blower works well for the majority of the drying, just make sure to flood as much water off as possible which will eliminate most of the water pooling on the car. if you have a solid coat of your LSP, the water will fly right off. you'll still need to dry chase some light water droplets, just follow up with a microfiber towel (pick up some quality ones, they are not all created equal) and qd or spray wax...
 
You can use multiple wash mitts in a single bucket. Never return a dirty mitt into the clean bucket. Change mitts when they become too dirty.
 
You've got very good advice, starting with ridding yourself of your old sponge. Chenille Wash Mitts are a start.
What do you use for shampoo? This is important as well. You want something with high-lubricity.
When drying get a leaf blower or McKee's Turbo Dryer: McKee's 37 Turbo Car Dryer
Try using a high quality quick detailer, such as Pinnacle Crystal Mist as drying agent when drying the car. Mist it on the drying towel and vehicle before you wipe.

Your Honda has soft paint being as gentle as possible will help.
 
Bought the opti waffle foam sponge.works pretty good and super soft and best of all cheap.
 
The only other thing I might mention which is probably common sense and a no-brainer, but I always wash from the top down on a vehicle. The low areas behind the tires are usually dirtier (more grit) and you could pull some of that up and induce scratches higher up on the vehicle which would be more noticeable.
 
Oh my, I forgot to mention a second bucket. Thanks for not shunning me!

I think a good lsp helps to some extent, making the wash slicker and easier to remove dirt.

Washing frequently helps too I believe, say weekly. The longer you wait to wash, the more bonded the dirt and contaminates my be. Requiring more effort to remove them.

If you're feeling that it may not be as slick as you like, top it with a good spray wax.
 
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