Next Step?

NoBread

NoBread

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Hi all new to the forum, trying to take my skills to the next level if you will.
I learned how to wheel two years ago and my customers have been happy but i have not,
still see little scratches here and there?? I use a makita 9227 and meg diamond cut 2, and a finish with a black pad. But i know i am missing a step and when i ask this guy he says well you wont get them all out... Rubbish after seeing what you folks here do. So my question. Where should i go next?? buy a da ?? go to one of the many schools that promise
100k a year (JK) But i want to be the best in my area and am passionate about detailing.

Feed back please
 
Are you only using #85 Diamond Cut? If so with what pad? You may want to use a less aggressive product with a light cutting pad such as a LC Orange pad to bring back the shine.
:checkit:

(Taken from the AG site)
Meguiars Diamond Cut Compound #85 2.0 is recommended for rotary use. Its professional quality formula is designed for the high speed cutting that can only be provided by a circular/rotary buffer. For heavy oxidation and severe sanding scratches, use an 8.5 wool pad. Follow up with Meguiars #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish and an orange pad to polish the paint to a high gloss.
 
wool pad with the diamond cut, then to finish pad but after seeing stuff on here i must be missing a step?
 
I see. I'm no expert on here. But my advice would be after the Diamond Cut w/Wool pad, go to a lighter pad/product combo such as #83 Dual Action Clean Polish or #82 Swirl Free Polish with an Orange or White Lake Country Pad to remove the compounding swirls left behind by the wool pad. Then depending on how much better the finish is looking, you can always move down to a finishing polish with a Black pad as a third step(isn't always necessary) PO85rd is a very popular 3rd step finishing polish to use.

I would highly recommend buying Megs Twins M105/M205 with some Orange and White pads though.
 
Are you using Diamond Cut and wool pads as a first step on all cars that you do or just some cars?

It seems to me that that is a drastically aggressive/abrasive combo and is probably creating more work than is necessary.

Most of the folks who post their work here in the show and shine will do a test section starting with the least aggressive/abrasive method first to see exactly what gets the results without removing to much clear.
 
No Not on all cars. I live in farm country and there are allot of trucks ran thru the woods etc. So some have pretty good scratches. And some times there really isnt much to do on some cars..Almost everyone gets clay due to the dirt roads.
 
I've been trying to post a reply since this morning but haven't had luck with an internal server error.
 
Seeing that you are new to the site, allow me to say :welcome:

In your first post, you mention a few things that I believe need further clarification. The first being, what product are you using with your finishing pad when you do your finishing passes? You do mention that you are switching to a finishing pad but you don't mention if you are trying to finish with the finishing pad and the same product (Diamond Cut) or if you are also switching to a finishing product.

The second thing is, what scratches are still remaining? Are they what Mike Phillips and others call RIDS (random isolated deeper scratches) or do you think they are really fine scratches caused by the diamond cut and/or the wool pad?

I haven't used Diamond Cut but I do believe that it is a diminishing abrasive compound, meaning that the longer you work it the further the abrasives will break down into finer size abrasives.
 
The possibility exists that you may not be working the diamond cut long enough to fully break down the abrasives in it. The possibility also exists that the diamond cut may simply be more than what is needed to get the results that you are trying to achieve, meaning that you may be leveling the paint sufficiently before the abrasives fully break down and you are left with nicely leveled paint with abrasive/wool pad scratches left behind.
 
If this is the case then the product/pad selection is not suited to the results you are trying to achieve and you may want to try something like an orange foam pad and Meguiar's M-105 instead of Diamond Cut and wool pad.
 
105 finishes very nicely and cuts very fast and may very well save you a full step in in your process in that you can go from cutting the paint right on to finishing the paint, whereas cutting with wool pad and Diamond Cut may require an intermediate polishing step before moving on to your finishing step to get the clarity that you are trying to achieve.

Maybe you will give M-105 a try and get back to this thread with your results.

If you are dealing with RIDS and not finer swirls caused by your process, they may be too deep to safely level out of the paint without removing too much paint to do so and a less aggressive approach may help to reduce the appearance of them.

It sounds to me like you may just need to think outside of the box and test out some different products and methods.

I hope this helped.
 
There. I had to cut it up into small pieces and paste one section at a time for some reason. I hate computers sometimes.
 
WOW! thanks for the welcome man really awesome. Trying to remember all you asked
I was not finishing with diamond cut, with another product. I did buy 105 and 205
from the guy i normally get my stuff from. I tested it on a hood i have laying around,
and 105 cuts fast and finishes real nice. Now the 205 i will be honest seems a little greasy
for my taste but maybe something i need to get use to? I wan not able to get the orange pad yet but will get that as well. On a side note did a jeep today and man was the paint job crap on this thing runs and all. But i am not skilled enough to wet sand.
 
Jeep: So i went to my shop today just as the sun was coming up and was really bummed big time. I could see wheel marks in the door and edge of the hood. Maybe need to make smaller passes?? If i can get a pic i will.


Feed back please
 
NoBread said:
Jeep: So i went to my shop today just as the sun was coming up and was really bummed big time. I could see wheel marks in the door and edge of the hood. Maybe need to make smaller passes?? If i can get a pic i will.


Feed back please
Click to expand...
Yes it sounds to me like you are trying to take on too large of an area at one time or possibly your arm speed is too fast when making your finishing passes.

Work the M-205 at around 1200 rpm or so with a slow arm speed for a few section passes keeping your pad completely flat to the panel you're working on then kick the rpm to the slowest setting on your rotary for the last 2 passes.
 
New car same lines??? used the 205 and it seems to me the longer i work the product the more scratches come out?? but if you look to the right of my phone you will see the lines i am talking about. ???
 
NoBread said:
New car same lines??? used the 205 and it seems to me the longer i work the product the more scratches come out?? but if you look to the right of my phone you will see the lines i am talking about. ???
Click to expand...
OK, so where are you on your first step with this black paint correction? Wool and Diamond Cut? From my experience in using wool as a first step, I typically need to follow that with a step using a foam polishing pad and something like M-105 before stepping to my finishing steps using M-205 and a finishing pad.

From the lines that I see to the right of your phone, it looks to me like you are creating some severely deep holograms or wool pad marks. Do you really need the wool pad to get the job done? Have you tried something like a light cutting foam (orange) pad for your first step and found that it wasn't cutting fast enough?

I think that you either need to,
1. go less aggressive on your first cutting steps (ditching the wool for foam light cutting or from Diamond Cut to M-105)

2. If the more aggressive approach is really necessary for your first cutting step then go with M-105 on a white foam polishing pad as an intermediate step to level the paint further to remove the wool pad scratches before moving on to your finishing step.
 
Thanks for all your help dave: I did use a white foam pad and 105 then black finish pad and 205 and still have the lines thats what makes this so wierd?? I really am at a loss as to what i am doing wrong?
 
Black paint can be seriously frustrating and some more so than others. This Yukon I did yesterday was one case where I had no choice but to pull out my Flex 3401. After the cutting stage using orange pad and 105 on a rotary and finishing pad and 205 with rotary. I just couldn't get it to finish hologram free so I used Poorboy's World Polish with Carnauba (Blue) with a finishing pad and the Flax DA.

Here is a pic of my test section before breaking out the Flex and PWC (blue).


029-11.jpg


These are after the PWC (blue)

020-18.jpg

031-14.jpg

042-3.jpg


On most paint this DA stage of final polishing is not required but sometimes with black paint you just have to do it.

Hang in there and keep practicing. You'll find your comfort zone with finishing hologram free. You may just want to save yourself some aggravation and get a DA for these tough to finish paints.
 
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