No sheeting, but lots of beading?

[prr]

I just washed my minivan today. It was waxed 4 weekends ago, and both for the initial rinse, as well as rinsing the soap off, there was a ton of beading. Up until now, I would have said it looked like a freshly waxed car.

But lately, I’ve been seeing videos on Youtube of guys comparing different waxes by putting running water on the paint, and seeing how fast the water sheets off. I tried that today, and I was very disappointed in how slow the sheeting was. Except for the hood, every place I put running water was like the control panel on a car in those videos, or the side that only got waxed 6 months ago.

This is making me think—I have read that the chemicals that induce beading are not the same in a wax, as those that provide a protective layer to the paint. So it is possible that one month has worn away much of the protective layer of the wax itself, but the chemicals that make water bead up, are still there? I would have thought with all the beading, that the water would have sheeting off very fast, but I did this before and after applying the soap, and both times when I saw the sheeting I was disappointed, compared to how fast water sheets off with a freshly waxed car.

The reason why I was surprised, was that there was as much if not more beading on my paint, than on the cars in the videos, but there was much slower sheeting.

I used a carnuba wax, and if one month is all I can get for my time, I’m definitely going to look for a synthetic wax for next weekend’s wax job.

So it is possible for there to be lots of beading but very little sheeting, and no wax protective layer? Or is there some other explanation?

 

[prr]

FWIW, I just found the wax that I use on youtube, and in fact guys are showing videos with it sheeting like crazy, so it is definitely a wax that sheets.

 

[Eldorado2k]

You might as well tell us what the wax is instead of just teasing/beating around the bush. Lol


Sent from my iPhone

 

[prr]

Its defenders would come on here and insist I did something wrong if it is only lasting a month.

Maybe I did apply it wrong, although I don't think so. But my question stands, regardless of the brand--I'd like to know if there is a protective layer on my paint.

EDIT: Tell you what, when I get my question answered, I'll spill the beans.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Lets boycott the advice until he spills the beans! Lmao J/k


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Supra9497]

How did you apply the water. If you mist water or spray it with a nozzle it will bead I believe because there's not a lot of water behind it pushing it off. If you let the water hit the paint out of the hose no nozzle it will sheet more I believe. Just my guess.

example wit the hose freely flowing.

https://instagram.com/p/BPEN6EFD1v6/

 

[prr]

How did you apply the water. If you mist water or spray it with a nozzle it will bead I believe because there's not a lot of water behind it pushing it off. If you let the water hit the paint out of the hose no nozzle it will sheet more I believe. Just my guess.

Looks like Supra didn't read Eldorado's slick plan.

Seriously, I put it on a "flood" setting, which poured out lots and lots of water. It wasn't as if it were running out of the hose, but it came out in a wide running stream. It was not a mister type of setting---I made sure to use a setting that had a lot of water pouring out of it. If I didn't see one, I would have taken off the nozzle, but decided that I didn't have to, b/c I was getting plenty of water with the setting that I chose.

 

[ntwillie1]

Since you're not telling us what wax it is, I'm going to take a guess. PM if I am right please. Colonite 845 or something from that product line.

 

[CarolinasFinestDetailing]

Well, what soap or chemical are you using to wash your car?

Are you using or have you used any type of QD/spray wax/drying aid since wax application?

 

[prr]

Well, what soap or chemical are you using to wash your car?

Are you using or have you used any type of QD/spray wax/drying aid since wax application?

I have washed it twice in the 4 weeks (its been raining a lot, in between washes). Both times with Meguiars Deep Crystal soap.

I have used no spray wax or other detailing products on the paint.

 

[Lt1xL82]

Looks like Supra didn't read Eldorado's slick plan.

Seriously, I put it on a "flood" setting, which poured out lots and lots of water. It wasn't as if it were running out of the hose, but it came out in a wide running stream. It was not a mister type of setting---I made sure to use a setting that had a lot of water pouring out of it. If I didn't see one, I would have taken off the nozzle, but decided that I didn't have to, b/c I was getting plenty of water with the setting that I chose.

The nozzle could be the entire cause of what you are experiencing. The video Supra9497 linked is a classic demonstration of "sheet rinsing" aka "pool rinsing" aka...

 

[prr]

The nozzle could be the entire cause of what you are experiencing. The video Supra9497 linked is a classic demonstration of "sheet rinsing" aka "pool rinsing" aka...

Hmmm let me just say that I don't believe that the nozzle was the case. I took a look at the video after reading your comments. I have to say that the stream of water that I had was not as wide and fast as that water coming out of the hose, but there was a fairly decent stream of water. Its not like some of those detailers who make a video to show off sheeting, and then pour out a couple ounces of water from a bottle. It was a pretty decent running stream of water. Without a video of what I did, I'm not too sure what more to say.

Next week, I'll wash again and before waxing, I'll be sure to take a video of what I am talking about.

EDIT: And the water on my van was nowhere near as fast sheeting off, as in that video.

 

[FUNX650]

Some people would kill to have their
choices of Waxes/Sealants/Coatings...
(LSPs)...exhibit similar water-beading
characteristics (caused by factors such
as: cohesion; surface tension; hydro-
phobicity; contact angle; etc.) as yours.


•And, to me:
-Unless an LSP has been specifically
formulated to sheet water (hydrophilic
characteristics); then:
-"Sheeting" water off of a vehicle,
using a free flowing water source,
is just another example of gravity
at work. No more; no less.



Bob

 

[prr]

Since nobody has challenged this view, I'll accept it as well grounded.

Thanks for the input. I suppose I will be ignoring sheeting water (as a sign of the presence of wax), and just use beading as a guage for how quickly my wax is dissipating.

I was beginning to think that sheeting was a better way to guage the protection that wax was providing the paint, but looks like that idea is out the window.

Thanks again.

•And, to me:
-Unless an LSP has been specifically
formulated to sheet water (hydrophilic
characteristics); then:
-"Sheeting" water off of a vehicle,
using a free flowing water source,
is just another example of gravity
at work. No more; no less.

Bob

 

[Loach]

Sheeting and beading are linked together through surface tension. The tighter the individual beading in most cases (higher surface tension), the faster the water will sheet off of the panel once you flood the paint.

See Paint Protect on the left side, still very defined beading but flood the paint and it forms a fairly slow sheet. Carnauba based waxes can have some great initial beading/sheeting, but a few weeks of time is plenty for their surface tension to be negatively impacted. So in the extreme case, can we have something that produces the tight beading of ICE on the right side in the picture and not have decent sheeting? I have never seen this in my testing.

What wax did you apply to the paint?

 

[grovlet]

Yeah - I would agree with Loach - tight beading typically equals better sheeting - FYI - you mentioned Carnuba - stand alone Carnuba Wax is really designed more for high gloss looks with short lived durability...

So my guess is while there is still beading your protection is wearing out.....

For winter - I would suggest some sort of actual sealant and not one that touts Carnuba as the gloss factor - to me - Winter is about maximum durability with gloss secondary!

 

[prr]

Yeah - I would agree with Loach - tight beading typically equals better sheeting - FYI - you mentioned Carnuba - stand alone Carnuba Wax is really designed more for high gloss looks with short lived durability...

So my guess is while there is still beading your protection is wearing out.....

For winter - I would suggest some sort of actual sealant and not one that touts Carnuba as the gloss factor - to me - Winter is about maximum durability with gloss secondary!

Perhaps the protection was wearing out. And this weekend, the beading was so little on those panels that I went ahead and waxed it again, even thought it was only 6 weeks after my previous wax job. So perhaps what I was noticing was a degrading of the wax layer.

Anyways, it was Collinite.

 

[392hemi]

Perhaps the protection was wearing out. And this weekend, the beading was so little on those panels that I went ahead and waxed it again, even thought it was only 6 weeks after my previous wax job. So perhaps what I was noticing was a degrading of the wax layer.

Anyways, it was Collinite.

Which Collonite was it?

What prep did you do before applying?

Also where do you live and was it subjected to any salt or snow?

 

[fightnews]

Yeah - I would agree with Loach - tight beading typically equals better sheeting - FYI - you mentioned Carnuba - stand alone Carnuba Wax is really designed more for high gloss looks with short lived durability...

So my guess is while there is still beading your protection is wearing out.....

For winter - I would suggest some sort of actual sealant and not one that touts Carnuba as the gloss factor - to me - Winter is about maximum durability with gloss secondary!

not to mention the guy said it was raining a lot that will strip wax a lot faster, plus salts on the road depending where you live, have you the op done a touchless laser wash or used a coin operated pressure washer. also are you waxing on top of clean, uncontaminated paint? that can make a difference with bonding

edit: ^^wizard^^

 

[prr]

Which Collonite was it?

What prep did you do before applying?

Also where do you live and was it subjected to any salt or snow?

No snow, although there has been a lot of rain lately (a few weekends, 2 or 3, I didn't wash the car b/c of so much rain). But no snow or road salt.

As far as prep, none at all. I may have clayed those surfaces once, years ago, but maybe not. Anyways, my prep is to wash the car before applying the wax. That's pretty much it. It was the 845.

No coin op washes. This last round it was all either rain water (ha ha) or Meguiars Deep Crystal soap.