Not So Easy

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DP4Duke

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I applied Synergy on my car today and found it to be rather difficult to apply and not so easy to remove. I clayed and used the cleansing polish prior to doing this. I also applied Black Label Paint Sealant prior to using Synergy.

I am aware of the debate of using a sealant and a wax. After my experience, I must say that I see no difference in the shine after applying Synergy. In fact, I was disappointed with the product, from the application to the visible result. I have read how easy Synergy is to apply so I am a bit concerned as to why I did not have that experience. I am also concerned about spending close to $200 on a wax that gave me less than expected results. I should have stuck with the sealant, as it looked spectacular after applying it.

I would appreciate any advice or tips on this issue, as I would like to figure out why the Synergy gave less than spectacular results.
 
What comes to mind is that either you applied it too thick or either you didn't let it dry long enough therefore go back clean a small section of a panel use the smallest amount you can then do the swipe test after 5 or 10 mins then buff off any residue left then compare both experiences
 
DP4Duke,
I know exactly what you are talking about because I've experienced this myself. The problem, as I see it, is the sealant gives you so much of what you're looking for in terms of look that your expecting the wax to provide an even higher level of gloss, wetness, and whatever after you apply it. I think what just happened is the sealant stole all of the wax's glory. If you had done it in reverse, wax then sealant, you would have been disappointed with the sealant.
I imagine the wax was difficult to spread only because the sealant was not letting it stick as easily as it would have to un-sealed paint. When this happens when I apply a wax over a sealant, I use circular motions followed by linear passes. Sometimes I have to do this two or three times per panel because the sealant is letting the wax slide but not stick. Enough elbow grease overcomes this however.
As far as dissapppointment in the wax, don't be. Synergy, I am sure, is a fantastic wax. I would bet that if you wash a car then apply synergy where there's no sealant, you will be rewarded with what your looking for.
 
I have no idea what the dude above me is saying, however sounds like you used way to much product, a swipe or two maybe per panel should cover fine, thin is definitely in with Synergy.
 
cleanmycorolla said:
I have no idea what the dude above me is saying, however sounds like you used way to much product, a swipe or two maybe per panel should cover fine, thin is definitely in with Synergy.
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He probably used too much product because spreading wax over a quality sealant is very different than spreading wax over clear coat or paint. Over a sealant, the wax seems to just slide around and not stick; therefore the typical remedy, I presume, is to use more wax. Of course, using too much wax would make it difficult to remove.

Furthermore, he stated the sealant gave him the look he was after, and should have stopped there. In other words, he was expecting too much from the wax in terms of adding to the look. This is where the sealant stole all of the glory from the wax. I too, am guilty of this mistake. With me, It happened with bfwd and blackice.
 
Although it is possible I used to much wax, what expdetailing is saying makes sense, so where does that leave me? Do I omit the sealant and just use the wax or can I apply the Synergy over the sealant in a few months with better results?

Which brings up another issue; doesn't Synergy require prepping with the cleansing polish which would remove the sealant?

Thank each of you for your comments as I try to better understand these products.
 
I imagine applying synergy in a couple months would have some eye-pleasing effect. This would really only be if pbl coating starts to lose its luster, or its initial pop, so to speak.
Don't fall into the trap of believing that a pbl surface cleansing polish is needed.
It may have been a good idea to start out with, but us forum members don't know what you did to your paint prior to application of pbl coating. Maybe you could tell us what prep work you did. Prep work would be ideal, but not necessary. I'm sure you washed the car first.
I think (if you in fact did prep the paint, or the paint is near perfect) you should leave the coating on, and just accept the fact of what the wax is, and that's a very, very good wax. Nano- glass ceramic particles and carnuba; that's awsome. Give the car a coat of wax if you hav not already.
I'll tell you, after I coated my car with a sealant, any wax I had really added almost nothing to the look. If anything, the wax muted the look of the coating somewhat.
Non-the-less, I waxed anyways because I knew I was now providing my clear coat and the sealant a sacrificial barrier made of a high quality wax.
My new thought is to save my expensive wax for paint that won't be recieving a coating, and just using run-of-the-mill wax over sealants. Did that make sense?
 
You have "nailed" my feelings and observations about this matter, expdetailing! Synergy did actually diminish the shine of the sealant; or at least I thought so.

Here is more information as to the car and what I did prior to the application of the Synergy. First I washed the car with Black Label Diamond Coating Shampoo. The paint on the car is in good shape, but I did clay the car using the Nanoskin products. Next, I used Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish. Then I applied Black Label Diamond Paint Sealant. I applied the polish and the sealant with Porter Cable 7424. After letting the sealant cure for about 18 hours, I applied Synergy.
 
DP4Duke,
It sounds like you did everything within your grasp and stuck to the pbl line to let it work as a system. It's easy to understand with the way synergy is marketed why you had the feelings you had. That being said though, I would bet anybody that no wax on earth can look any better than synergy does on top of pbl coating.
So, how did the prep work impress you? Did you walk away thinking you could have done better, or were you impressed with the results?
 
expdetailing said:
DP4Duke,
It sounds like you did everything within your grasp and stuck to the pbl line to let it work as a system. It's easy to understand with the way synergy is marketed why you had the feelings you had. That being said though, I would bet anybody that no wax on earth can look any better than synergy does on top of pbl coating.
So, how did the prep work impress you? Did you walk away thinking you could have done better, or were you impressed with the results?
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I was very happy with the entire process except after I applied Synergy, which I applied by hand.
 
DP4Duke said:
I was very happy with the entire process except after I applied Synergy, which I applied by hand.
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My suggestion is always apply waxes/lsp's by machine. Until I got my 3" Rupes I'd use my PC (which I sold) with a 3" backing plate and an LC 4" black pad speed #2. Thin is in and it will make your application so much easier along with making your investment in the high end wax go much fuuuuurtherrrrrr.
 
I think you guys are way over thinking this..

Let me ask you how long did you wait to apply synergy on top of the sealant after you applied the sealant??

And what was your process in applying the synergy (what applicators, wait time, towels, temperature, in the sun??)?
 
EVOlved said:
I think you guys are way over thinking this..

Let me ask you how long did you wait to apply synergy on top of the sealant after you applied the sealant??

And what was your process in applying the synergy (what applicators, wait time, towels, temperature, in the sun??)?
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Not to be rude here Evolved, But I think you are over-thinking this with the questions you are asking. What would it matter what applicator he used?
His main concern was about the look he expected that he did not recieve after applying the wax. Sealant curing time, as I see it, and based on my experience, has no effect to the look after a wax is applied. Sure, a sealant has to have curing time to look its best, but he stated his sealant looked satisfactory before he applied the wax.
 
expdetailing said:
Not to be rude here Evolved, But I think you are over-thinking this with the questions you are asking. What would it matter what applicator he used?
His main concern was about the look he expected that he did not recieve after applying the wax. Sealant curing time, as I see it, and based on my experience, has no effect to the look after a wax is applied. Sure, a sealant has to have curing time to look its best, but he stated his sealant looked satisfactory before he applied the wax.
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But he's also the first person to my knowledge who has posted anything negative about Synergy? So like I said before, machine apply it. I'm going with others, he applied it too thick which is common with hand application. Like Mike says, let the machine do the work.
 
Yes, I believe the fact that he applied it too thick has already been established. What seems to be lost here with some of those that are posting was that his main complaint was about the look he was expecting and did not receive. The application and removal issue just added to the main complaint, but was not a central point in his disappointment.
I explained the coating provided so much of the look he sought that nothing else was to be gained by the wax. I'm guilty of the same. I felt this way about blackice over bfwd. I thought my way through it, and recognized what happened.
I shared this experience with the OP, and it seems he understands now. I think he'll grow more and more attached to his synergy as he uses it in the future, just as I have been doing with my blackice.
 
I did not apply Synergy with the machine because I could not get the wax to pop out of the container and I do not have a pad that small, although I will get one for the future. The sealant was allowed to cure for about 18 hours. The detailing was done in a garage and the temperature here in SC has been 60-70 degrees this week. As for the applicator, I used the pad provided with the Synergy. For the record, I am a person who always reads the manufacturers instructions and I try to follow them exactly as recommended.

Based on the comments and suggestions, would it be best to let the sealant do its work minus the Synergy and use the Synergy on a car which I had not used the sealant?
 
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If I were you, I would use the sealant and the synergy on my (your) car because synergy would give the cc and sealant protection.
Another person such as a friend or a customer, IMO, would not/could not appreciate the synergy at the level you do, or will in the future.
If you want to seal and wax someone else's car, use a good bang for the buck wax, but not the synergy, IMO.
When it comes to machine applying over a sealant, I will use the least aggressive method, which is by hand, unless I am recommended otherwise by the manufacturer. I don't like scrubbing my sealant with any pad w/ wax on a DA no matter what.
 
Synergy is a pretty easy wax to use. It spreads pretty far and wipes off pretty easy. I do not believe using a sealant under it would effect either one of those properties. So, I'm in the camp of "you may have applied too much". You should be applying it thin enough so it hazes (dries) almost immediately out of sun/heat. If your waiting around for a panel to haze after waxing it - you applied too much.

As for the wax itself - it's quite amazing. I'm using it now and the durability seems quite unsurpassed compared to conventional products. I wouldn't apply it by machine, but only because it's costly and you tend to use more product with machine application IMHO.

As for the looks of Synergy - I like it. And.... I don't like the look of every wax. However, the difference of any wax over over any sealant will be subtle - especially if the surface was polished correctly prior and the defects removed. Waxes can actually diminish certain aspects of the look of paint - they can also enhance others. It just depends on what look you prefer.

You may just like the clear look of the sealant better on your particular car - and that is fine. Or, you may be disappointed because you expected to see a "difference" after applying Synergy - but didn't. Either way, you live and learn what works for you. I've bought waxes I didn't like as well for whatever reason - but Synergy wasn't one of them.
 
My BlackIce spreads pretty far and wipes off pretty easy too, however it does not act this way on my smooth paint that has BFWD on it, that's for sure. I wonder how close Synergy is to BlackIce?
 
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