Not so happy with Mark2 upgrade

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sealthedeal

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Just baffles me why the need for mark2 upgrade if we are being advocated by the manufacturer it's 3-4 is equivalent to Legacy 5-6 and to be more in 3-4 range. I have used original Rupes15 at speeds 5-6 without really running into heat issues. I don't do my details in controlled temperatures. Since owning the mark2 and operating at speed 4-4.5, the pads have started to get super hot (making the experience unpleasant and impacting work time). Not a very efficient 30% increase in power of the machine if al the time one has to worry for heat and pads giving up (heat was supposed to be the least of concerns when using DAs). When on significant curves (inward panels on door or curves on a hood like Benz E200), speed 3,4 still stall (my technique with Rupes is fine) and in such moments there is a need to go speed 5 to not get bogging and the heat levels begin to go off charts. Even at speed 4 and trying to do the sections one after another , you begin to run into pad getting super hot. Perhaps the head needed more vents or the BP needed a further redesign to help dissipate heat better. Pads in question are GG MF/White pads, carpro MF pads, Meg MF and a few other foam ones (without-centerhole pads have even more hard time with heat). I have used the 900w DAs too and they even don't generate as much heats to the pad on speeds 5,6. The torque and pad rotation is definitely better but Just hasn't been a smooth upgrade transition for me to mark 2 I am afraid and the extra 30% has come with extra 30% heat as well (glad Rupes didn't go the 900w route or it would've been a heat gun going by the numbers) . Sorry, it may sound like a rant to something you love and trust me I have had a strong love relationship with my legacy machine. This upgrade literally is more HOT though.

PS* I had a chat with Kevin Brown and he didn't deny on the extra heat part.




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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Seems like most complaints on the MKII's are around the 15 model, could the longer throw of the 21 be assisting in keeping pads cooler as its moving further away from rotation centre?
 
Zubair said:
Seems like most compaints on the MKII's are around the 15 model, could the longer throw of the 21 be assisting in keeping pads cooler as its moving further away from rotation centre?
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Per Rupes, 15 is the best selling so that's why possibly
 
I think Rupes needs a new line of pads to suit the power of the new machines.
 
A waffle pad by optimum creates much less heat.

How is it that the rupes mk2's have heat issues but the forced rotation 3401's dont seem to have an issue as much?
 
Maybe I'm reading this wrong - but it seems like the OP tried every pad except the ones actually designed for the machine - Rupes pads?

I have a MK II (and had a MK 1) and neither gets noticeably even warm - no less hot.

When a machine gets "hot" - most of the heat is generated from the pad up - not machine down. So the heat is coming up from the surface, buffing liquid, pad - and the friction between the 3.

Another thing that can add to this is the environment. If it's 100° in the room your buffing in - or you are buffing black paint in direct sun - this can add to the heat issue. Other factors that can contribute are too much downward force (Rupes needs little to none) or too much polish being used.
 
When I was encountering heat issues, the counterweight and the actual mounting point (near the bearings) is hot for me.... Not just the BP.

I'm talking with regards to the Mk I or the 3401.
 
I had the 21 and never experienced heat problems even working in the heat. I wonder if compounds can make a difference. Some aren't so sun friendly or heat friendly and perhaps can create more friction. I did use my rupes as a system, but I also used other various pads and never had issues.
 
JeffM said:
A waffle pad by optimum creates much less heat.

How is it that the rupes mk2's have heat issues but the forced rotation 3401's dont seem to have an issue as much?
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The metal housing heated up a lot on mine.
 
Try the Lake Country HD Orbital Foam Pads. They're thicker than the Griots pads, which will help a bit when it comes to stalling around corners. LC also claims they run 10% cooler than other pads on the market. I can't guarantee they'll fully solve your problem, but I can tell you that I've been using them with my G21 and I've never felt them get hot or even slightly warm so far.

http://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-hd-orbital-pads.html
 
I have had issues on the 21 Mark 1 with Buff&Shine pads. I am confident that heat was the problem, after a while buffing with a pad it would simply fly off the backplate. Last year I purchased Lake Country HD pads and have yet to encounter this problem. I did slow down the operating speed from 5-6 to 4-4.5 so that is very likelly part of the reason. But I afraid to try B&S pads on it even at the lower speed, one mistake and I could be grinding the backplate into paint so I really don't want to take a chance on it.
 
How about when using Rupes pads?

They specifically designed their foam pads with an open cell design to reduce excessive heat. Rupes microfiber pads are slotted to both reduce heat potential, and regulate the weight.

Same goes for their polishes, the consistency is carefully matched to the pad it's intended to be used with.
 
So I couldn't agree more with the above posters. The Mark II issues have nothing to do with technique. The polisher runs very hot and therefore the pads that are thicker are affected greatly. The only pad I have found to be satisfactory is the 5.5" Griot's. My Mark II sits on the shelf as we use the boss system 99% of the time. I did place an order for the iBird Nano and hope to have a better experience with that.

The Boss never has this heat issue, melting pads is not something I'm interested in seeing when working on a $180,000 car. Now I must say the Rupes is a touch smoother to operate, but not at the cost of hemmoraging pads which is essentially what happens. Tried the B&S, Rupes, all junk.
 
I have a Mark II 15 and use LC Thinpro pads, and I have yet to have an issue with heat or melting pads. I do run on slower speeds (4-4.5) and rotate pads after each panel, however maybe I am the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad someone started this topic, and I'll keep a better eye out in the future to see if an issue arises.
 
The first thing to point out is that the assumption that the machine runs hot is absolutely incorrect. If you are experiencing heat on the tool itself its transfer from the engagement point and or the pad. Its actually a demonstratable fact - a tool can be run without a pad for extended period of time and the heat generation is minimal.

The hottest point in ANY system is typically at the engagement point between the hook and loop. The friction here as the pad shifts and the loops attempt to disengage creates a ton of friction. The use of a pad system with an incompatible loop material (yes there are hundreds of loop and hook materials, not all are synced properly) can create sloppy engagement and further exaggerate the issue.

A softer foam material (like your typical orange foam) creates yet another heat source. The distortion, flexing, and bending of the foam against itself creates internal friction, creating yet another point of heat generation just below the engagement point. This is actually the logic that lead to the BigFoot pad design. The more rigid foams are less likely to generate intense internal heat (not impossible, but less likely for heat generation with these foam compounds).
 
To the OP -

You mention you are aware of the recommendation to run at speeds 3-4, but you are running 4.5? I'd recommend moving to speed 3 - the speed is one thing, but the torque is increased across the entire range so you have more torque even at the reduced speeds (to maintain pad rotation which is what everyone wanted) from the original tools. Between a reduced speed setting and perhaps the choice of a different pad I'm confident you'll see the benefit of the Mark II.
 
When I'm ready to step up to rupes I'm thinking an es unit will be the better choice . Imo 100 bucks more for a unit that can only be run at half speed is pointless imo.
 
postaltwo said:
When I'm ready to step up to rupes I'm thinking an es unit will be the better choice . Imo 100 bucks more for a unit that can only be run at half speed is pointless imo.
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The point isn't that it can ONLY be run at half speed, but that it gives you a wider range of speeds to choose from. If you are running a polisher wide open and need more power what do you do? Its not like the dial on any of these goes to 7.

You do the general polishing in the mid range, then increase the speed when you encounter curves or bodylines that would otherwise slow/stop pad rotation. Just like your car - you don't drive everywhere with the gas pedal to the floor do you? You run somewhere less than 100% throttle to drive around, but if you need to get to highway speed, pass a slow moving vehicle, etc you push the accelerator to the floor.

That being said, if the ES has enough power for you then go with it - we still sell TONS of the ES model for those looking to save the $100 and don't find that they need the extra power.
 
SRConcepts said:
I have a Mark II 15 and use LC Thinpro pads, and I have yet to have an issue with heat or melting pads. I do run on slower speeds (4-4.5) and rotate pads after each panel, however maybe I am the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad someone started this topic, and I'll keep a better eye out in the future to see if an issue arises.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I run the Mark II 15 with GG MF, Megs MF, Rupes foam, CarPro foam, LC foam and BS foam and haven't had any of these issues. I usually run at speeds 4-5 also.
 
Kind of new to polishing still, and am gonna be stepping up to a long throw polisher here soon....when u say u rotate pads after each panel, are u just going to a fresh pad on each panel and discontinuing use of the original pad or are u just letting it take a break to cool down before going back to it?....and if it's just a break, is there no need to worry about the product drying in the pad?

Also while I'm at it, with the long throw DAs can u "clean them on the fly" using the Terry towel like how Mike P does or is there another way?....and what about cleaning a MF pad on the fly without compressed air to blow it out??

Thx in advance, from a long throw/MF pad newB
 
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