So i did my first polish. 2002 jeep wrangler, silver. my test spot turned out pretty well with only light swirls left after menzerna IP/orange pad and SF/grey pad. When i went to do the rest of the vehicle i couldnt get rid of the swirls. I dont really know what im doing wrong. Ill try to get pics tonight. I use a PC DA.
Not what i expected
- Thread starter alanmx6
- Start date
embolism
New member
- Dec 8, 2010
- 2,322
- 0
your sections are too big
2x2 should be the max. If you're still having issues then go even smaller (18in x 18in).
Since this is your first polish, there is likely lots of embedded grime that is gumming up your pads. Clean your pads and even switch them out often.
2x2 should be the max. If you're still having issues then go even smaller (18in x 18in).
Since this is your first polish, there is likely lots of embedded grime that is gumming up your pads. Clean your pads and even switch them out often.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
From my article list...
DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.
Here's a list of the most common problems,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.
Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,
"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"
But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.
Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.
Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.
This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.
Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.
Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.
Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
Pad Cleaning Articles
Why it's important to clean your pads often...
How to clean your foam pad on the fly
How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer
:buffing:
DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.
Here's a list of the most common problems,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order, 2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.
Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,
"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"
But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.
Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.
Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.
This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.
Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.
Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.
Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
- Removed paint
- Spent product
Pad Cleaning Articles
Why it's important to clean your pads often...
How to clean your foam pad on the fly
How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer
:buffing:
alko
New member
- May 23, 2011
- 4,342
- 0
:whs:
Lets jump even further back...did you clay the car to get the above surface bonded contaminants? If not...stop and go back to basics and clay the car.
As far as the section size...exactly what Tim said above. I quickly came to realize that your section will grow on you...eaning you'll start small but it has the possibility to expand without you realizing it. Decrease your section size and bump the speed up to 6. When I had my very first run with my PC7424XP I was so scared to kick the speed up. With this, I only got about 75% correction done on my first job. From what I've read alot of people are scared to bump up the speed. Just make sure you use good technique.
CLEAN YOUR PAD'S OFTEN!!! I clean mine after every other section, sometimes after every section. Or...have enough pads to switch them out often (3 or 4-ideally).
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Your pad was dirty and/or too much product was used. Your test spot worked, but as the pad gummed up, performance decreased significantly. When pads get clogged, neither pad or product can perform as intended.
Solution is to have extra clean pads or clean your pad after each panel. Great advice from everyone. Don't forget to shrink your work area, 3x3 is huge for PC correction.
Solution is to have extra clean pads or clean your pad after each panel. Great advice from everyone. Don't forget to shrink your work area, 3x3 is huge for PC correction.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
- Aug 31, 2010
- 17,061
- 1,355
The other thing that no one has mentioned (all good info so far) is that IP is just not that aggressive a polish.
swanicyouth
New member
- Mar 3, 2011
- 9,388
- 0
That's so true. I recently used the Wolfgang twins and an old PC to do both my cars. Right at the end I ran out of TSR 3.0. I had some Menzerna IP on hand, so I used that. I ended up having to switch to a yellow LC Smart pad to get the same cut(was using an orange pad with TSR). I liked the Wolfgang polish a little better, as to me the IP dried to fast. But it was probably just me because I'm just a hobbyist with experience limited to my own cars.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
- Aug 31, 2010
- 17,061
- 1,355
No, it's not you, the IP dusts a lot, it's an older Menz polish and doesn't have the same lubricants as the newer Ceramiclear polishes from Menz.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
- Aug 31, 2010
- 17,061
- 1,355
If it was the same as SIP--it would be SIP, wouldn't it?
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
- Aug 31, 2010
- 17,061
- 1,355
No biggie...I guess the only reason they still make IP is because it's quite a bit cheaper than SIP, and maybe it's a little better on really soft paints.
Flash Gordon
Well-known member
- Feb 6, 2010
- 11,458
- 463
Sounds like you need Megs 105 or 101