Novice | Few questions if I may..

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Bsilman

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Hello all,

New to the forum... a little about me..: I'm an I.T. professional by trade but am also a "car guy". A few years ago I worked for a friend at a country club washing cars for extra cash on the weekends so I have a decent foundation when it comes to wash/drying/interior detailing, clay-ing and waxing.

However, I've come to learn that to remove scratches / swirls and to REALLY bring a paint job to life polishing is required (unless the car is fresh from the factory); so I purchased a Porter Cable 7424, 3 hex-logic pads (orange, white, black), and Chemical Guys V line of polish.. V32, 34, 36, and 38...

Now for the questions / comment. I'm sure it was probably my lack of experience but the V-line didn't remove the scratches / light swirls from my '07 BMW 335i (Montego blue)... I believe my technique is decent from all of the videos / reading I've been doing.. I started with the V34 but felt I wasn't getting good correction so then tried the V32 but still didn't get the result I expected...

What would your plan of attack for these scratches be? (hopefully the pictures shows the scratches enough).

I've been reading a lot about Meguiar's M105 compound... whats the CG V line equivalent? Or are they separate animals?

Does this car have a particularly "hard" clear coat?

20140810_233551.jpg


Feed back please

Thank you for your time.
 
Yeah, I have no clue about the V-line or those pads... BUT

here are some 'universal' polishing things to note:
- if your clear coat is hard (which a lot of BMWs are), than you'll need to go with a more aggressive approach to polishing.. such as more down pressure, slower arm movement, stronger compound, stronger pad, etc..

- the light your using to inspect the paint isn't strong enough.. so maybe what you're doing is removing defects to a certain degree.. but the lights you're using aren't effective enough to show you the exact results you're getting

I dont think you need to buy anything else.. keep on testing with what you have
 
thebamboo23 said:
Yeah, I have no clue about the V-line or those pads... BUT

here are some 'universal' polishing things to note:
- if your clear coat is hard (which a lot of BMWs are), than you'll need to go with a more aggressive approach to polishing.. such as more down pressure, slower arm movement, stronger compound, stronger pad, etc..

- the light your using to inspect the paint isn't strong enough.. so maybe what you're doing is removing defects to a certain degree.. but the lights you're using aren't effective enough to show you the exact results you're getting

I dont think you need to buy anything else.. keep on testing with what you have
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info... I'm going to give it another go on the trunk in a couple days... try to hone my technique, start with v32 maybe, and put a sharpie mark on my backplate to make sure I'm getting good rotation... I did remove some light scratches.. I guess I just expected more.

As far as the swirls.. that's pretty much how they look in direct sunlight.. not too bad few swirls about a centimeter apart.. I'll try to get a better pic in daylight, not bad though for a 7 year old car I'd say.

:buffing:
 
:welcome: To Autogeek Online! :props:

Chemical Guys products are top notch and work well so there's no need of abandoning them hoping for a better results.

Getting started can be somewhat frustrating because we're in search of instant perfection...........and that's perfectly normal. Understanding what it really takes to make a finish look great and applying that knowledge correctly and efficiently is an entirely different story.

Important Topics

  • Pad & Product Selection
  • Pad Priming
  • Pad Rotation
  • Product Application
  • Machine Speed
  • Arm Speed
  • Sectional Pass

Mike Phillips has written some great articles which will help you a great deal and I've included a few links below.

Dual Action Polishers

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide

How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher

How much product do I use with my DA Polisher?

Wet Buffing Technique

DA Polisher Articles - Help for Newbies to Machine Polishing


Pads

For use on Porter Cables 7424xp polisher, 5 1/2 inch pads and corresponding backing plate or smaller work best. Although you didn't mention it I'm hoping you chose these.


Pads & Friction

The size or surface area does not directly affect the frictional force between two surfaces until downward force or pressure is applied. Reducing the pad size will only improve the mechanical efficiency of the machine.

The motor of your polisher produces some amount of power. The larger the pad surface area the harder the motor must work. Now, most will say "it's only 1 extra inch", but when it comes to surface area and friction you’re really talking about an additional 10 square inches. Now take a look at the difference between the 5 1/2", 6 1/2" and 7" pad...........Size does matter!


  • Surface Area - 5 1/2 pad = 23.75 in²
  • Surface Area - 6 1/2 pad = 33.18 in²
  • Surface Area - 7 pad = 38.484 in²

There is a direct relationship between the pad surface area and the polishers ability to transfer adequate power to the pad improving its overall performance.

Product Usage

For this application I would begin with Chemical Guys V34 compound on the Orange Hex-Logic foam pad. Prime the pad as Mike illustrates above then apply 5 dime size about 3/4" in from the outer edge of the pad.

Speed Setting - 5

Place the pad on the prepped surface before switching the machine on...

Area

Work an 18" X 18" area performing 5 to 6 sectional passes then inspect. Sometimes it helps placing a piece of painters tape on the surface to gauge your progress.

Arm speed should be slow in order to give the pad and product time enough to work. Don't be in a hurry, concentrate on your technique as this is part of the equation.

Once you're satisfied with the results then it's time to switch to a white pad and a finer polish. This will really enhance the finish bringing out its clarity and improving its gloss...
 
Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:



Bsilman said:
so I purchased a Porter Cable 7424,

3 hex-logic pads (orange, white, black),
Click to expand...

How big are the pads? I've never used Hexlogic pads, I'm kind of a flat pad guy myself, but one thing for sure when it comes to the Porter Cable and all the knock offs of it,

Thin is in....

And smaller diameter pads mean less surface area and better rotation. Here's the deal...

If the pad isn't rotating you aren't doing anything... so be sure to mark your backing plate so your eyes can more easily see if the pad is rotating or just jiggling.

Put your PC on the 6.0 speed setting and then only work a small area, about 16" to 20" squarish or so, not the industry wide recommendation of 2' x 2' as this is too large for this type of tool

Press down with about 15 pounds of downward pressure BUT maintain pad rotation and then start making overlapping passes in a crosshatch pattern.

Bobby included a link to my article called DA Troubleshooting Guide, read it before you start to avoid problems in the first place.



Bsilman said:
I've been reading a lot about Meguiar's M105 compound... whats the CG V line equivalent? Or are they separate animals?
Click to expand...

I've only used the CG V line once on a car here and I don't think they have anything like the SMAT product M105.


The scratches in the picture you included don't look bad... the most important factor when it comes to removing swirls and scratches is the abrasive technology. Tool, pad and technique are all second.


:)
 
BobbyG said:
:welcome: To Autogeek Online! :props:

Chemical Guys products are top notch and work well so there's no need of abandoning them hoping for a better results.

Getting started can be somewhat frustrating because we're in search of instant perfection...........and that's perfectly normal. Understanding what it really takes to make a finish look great and applying that knowledge correctly and efficiently is an entirely different story.

Important Topics

  • Pad & Product Selection
  • Pad Priming
  • Pad Rotation
  • Product Application
  • Machine Speed
  • Arm Speed
  • Sectional Pass

Mike Phillips has written some great articles which will help you a great deal and I've included a few links below.

Dual Action Polishers

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide

How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher

How much product do I use with my DA Polisher?

Wet Buffing Technique

DA Polisher Articles - Help for Newbies to Machine Polishing


Pads

For use on Porter Cables 7424xp polisher, 5 1/2 inch pads and corresponding backing plate or smaller work best. Although you didn't mention it I'm hoping you chose these.


Pads & Friction

The size or surface area does not directly affect the frictional force between two surfaces until downward force or pressure is applied. Reducing the pad size will only improve the mechanical efficiency of the machine.

The motor of your polisher produces some amount of power. The larger the pad surface area the harder the motor must work. Now, most will say "it's only 1 extra inch", but when it comes to surface area and friction you’re really talking about an additional 10 square inches. Now take a look at the difference between the 5 1/2", 6 1/2" and 7" pad...........Size does matter!


  • Surface Area - 5 1/2 pad = 23.75 in²
  • Surface Area - 6 1/2 pad = 33.18 in²
  • Surface Area - 7 pad = 38.484 in²

There is a direct relationship between the pad surface area and the polishers ability to transfer adequate power to the pad improving its overall performance.

Product Usage

For this application I would begin with Chemical Guys V34 compound on the Orange Hex-Logic foam pad. Prime the pad as Mike illustrates above then apply 5 dime size about 3/4" in from the outer edge of the pad.

Speed Setting - 5

Place the pad on the prepped surface before switching the machine on...

Area

Work an 18" X 18" area performing 5 to 6 sectional passes then inspect. Sometimes it helps placing a piece of painters tape on the surface to gauge your progress.

Arm speed should be slow in order to give the pad and product time enough to work. Don't be in a hurry, concentrate on your technique as this is part of the equation.

Once you're satisfied with the results then it's time to switch to a white pad and a finer polish. This will really enhance the finish bringing out its clarity and improving its gloss...
Click to expand...

Wow great info thanks for that. Yes I am using a 5" backing plate w/ 5.5" pads... I'll give it another go soon.

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:





How big are the pads? I've never used Hexlogic pads, I'm kind of a flat pad guy myself, but one thing for sure when it comes to the Porter Cable and all the knock offs of it,

Thin is in....

And smaller diameter pads mean less surface area and better rotation. Here's the deal...

If the pad isn't rotating you aren't doing anything... so be sure to mark your backing plate so your eyes can more easily see if the pad is rotating or just jiggling.

Put your PC on the 6.0 speed setting and then only work a small area, about 16" to 20" squarish or so, not the industry wide recommendation of 2' x 2' as this is too large for this type of tool

Press down with about 15 pounds of downward pressure BUT maintain pad rotation and then start making overlapping passes in a crosshatch pattern.

Bobby included a link to my article called DA Troubleshooting Guide, read it before you start to avoid problems in the first place.





I've only used the CG V line once on a car here and I don't think they have anything like the SMAT product M105.


The scratches in the picture you included don't look bad... the most important factor when it comes to removing swirls and scratches is the abrasive technology. Tool, pad and technique are all second.


:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Mike. 5.5" pads. I'm going to take your advice, read the guides, and work a smaller area... I think I was trying to do too much, and I'll definitely mark the backing plate this time to make sure I'm getting good rotation.

Thanks again for the advice.. :xyxthumbs:
 
I used Hexlogic on my PC and went back to LC flat pads, they work much better in my humble opinion on the PC.
 
iv tried the v line of polishes and on very hard clear coats such as bmws unless jet black it doesnt really do much correction iv also owned there line of hex logic pads if your clear coat is hard your gonna want to to move a more agressive compound like menzerna fg 400 or meguiars m100 and for cutting id use microfiber cutting pads just make sure you atleast have a brush handy to constantly clean the pad before every section pass you do and you should see some good results if you have your technique down
 
the V32 is their most aggressive compound in that line, I would think using that and an orange pad would work on the hardest clear coats. Good luck.
 
I used V34 on a hex orange pad for an 02 M3 and got great results- this was with a Rupes 15. IMHO, M105 is comparable to V34. I like them both and have used them both. V34 dusts less but the M105 can be worked a LOT longer. I tend to like V34 when it's more humid out. JM.02
 
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