Optimum or Menzerna polishes?
- Thread starter rider9195
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I don't know something about Mary Ann that innocent farm girl look oh and the shorts. Im the MAN
Anyhow back on topic, I use Menz 203/85RD on all dark colors period, have not tired the new version Opt polishes because I have so much other stuff. I use 2/4 oz bottles that I premix all the stuff I use for a car and my full size bottles stay in the cabinet out of the light and temps. I don't really see any seperation issues but use up the bottle in under 2 years
From my point of view I think you are probably going about this the wrong way. The question shouldn’t be “Optimum or Menzerna” because without knowing what type of paint you are trying to correct, no one here can give you the correct answer.
After you correct many vehicles of all different paint types you soon learn that some polishes work better than others with hard or soft paint. The same goes for pad selection. So the simple conclusion is that you have to experiment with a bunch of polishes and pads until you come up with a combination that works for the particular paint you are attempting to correct.
As a general rule Menzerna and Optimum polishes work better on hard paints, both can be very difficult to use on soft paints. Again from my point of view there is absolutely nothing to be gained trying to fight against a polish (that someone here claims is the “bee’s knees”) that is just not suitable for the paint you are trying to correct. That is the whole idea of doing a test spot or a test panel to find the best combination of compound/polish and pad for the particular paint you are working with.
I certainly wouldn’t give much credence to whether a polish dusts or not – the aim of a compound is to remove defects. It is far more important that it does that and also finishes down well than whether it dusts or not. Correcting paint has always been a dirty business and if you are compounding, polishing and refining paint to perfection then you are going to be washing the vehicle several times from start to finish. Dust is the least of your worries.
The other point to consider is that your question has restricted your choice to either Menzerna or Optimum. You’ve left out of the equation one of the most versatile combinations Meguiar’s M105/M205.
Unfortunately there are no real shortcuts in this game; there is no getting around experimentation.
After you correct many vehicles of all different paint types you soon learn that some polishes work better than others with hard or soft paint. The same goes for pad selection. So the simple conclusion is that you have to experiment with a bunch of polishes and pads until you come up with a combination that works for the particular paint you are attempting to correct.
As a general rule Menzerna and Optimum polishes work better on hard paints, both can be very difficult to use on soft paints. Again from my point of view there is absolutely nothing to be gained trying to fight against a polish (that someone here claims is the “bee’s knees”) that is just not suitable for the paint you are trying to correct. That is the whole idea of doing a test spot or a test panel to find the best combination of compound/polish and pad for the particular paint you are working with.
I certainly wouldn’t give much credence to whether a polish dusts or not – the aim of a compound is to remove defects. It is far more important that it does that and also finishes down well than whether it dusts or not. Correcting paint has always been a dirty business and if you are compounding, polishing and refining paint to perfection then you are going to be washing the vehicle several times from start to finish. Dust is the least of your worries.
The other point to consider is that your question has restricted your choice to either Menzerna or Optimum. You’ve left out of the equation one of the most versatile combinations Meguiar’s M105/M205.
Unfortunately there are no real shortcuts in this game; there is no getting around experimentation.
truckbutt
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- Oct 7, 2010
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:iagree:Well said.:xyxthumbs:
rider9195
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- Jun 6, 2011
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You have a good point here. I can't remember if I mentioned this but all my vehicles I have worked on have had their paint corrected already, so I am not really looking for paint correction too much. I do have some M105 which I have used a lot.
After you correct many vehicles of all different paint types you soon learn that some polishes work better than others with hard or soft paint. The same goes for pad selection. So the simple conclusion is that you have to experiment with a bunch of polishes and pads until you come up with a combination that works for the particular paint you are attempting to correct.
I haven't heard of any troubles with these polishes be difficult on soft paints.
I can stand the dusting, although I usually can keep to down to a minimum with M105. But it is very nice to have a compound that doesn't dust much.
Already have M105. Works great! Meguiar's just doesn't seem to have any fine polishes that interest me.
You have some very good points.
And thank you everyone else that has put in their opinions about this! :xyxthumbs:
Mark, can you clarify on what is the correct method to use the OPT polishes?
truckbutt
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- Oct 7, 2010
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M205 on a finishing pad leaves a finish that IMO is hard to distinguish from P085RD. I believe that much of this has to do more with practice, experience, and technique then product.
Ok that does really help because to me it is the finishing or fine polishing of paint that the most time is or should be spent to achieve the perfect finish. Since you’re a fan of M105, then there is no need to discuss compounding, other than to say that many people here seem to take short cuts and go from something like M105 to P0106ff/ff or to 85RD without considering an intermediate step like P0203.
I’m a little surprised then. Maybe the definition of soft paints varies between users. I tend to use the term “sticky” paint rather than soft paint. Typically I would class sticky paint as the type you get with say a Subaru, Honda etc – typically anything Asian. What I mean by sticky is that say using a LC black or blue pad or even a Crimson pad, the finishing polish (e.g. either P0106ff or 85RD) seems to stick to the paint both during polishing and at wipe off. However on harder paints the opposite is true. On hard paint the polish breaks down very easily and quickly and therefore after completing a section, there is virtually nothing to wipe away. This sort of makes sense for Menzerna polishes because being German you would assume that they have been designed primarily for German or European built vehicles which typically have medium hard to hard paint. I doubt there is anything better to finish with than P01066 or 85RD for most BMWs, Audi, Benz etc. In other words harder or hard paints don’t really present any problems when finishing with something like the above two polishes. If you are prepared to spend the time, with a rotary and 85RD, then you really can produce incredible results on those types of finishes.
Another simple way to determine the softness or stickiness of any paint is to try using Poli-Seal on an already perfect finish. On harder paints the Poli-Seal will just disappear into the paint with only a couple of passes and virtually leave nothing to wipe off, leaving a nice slick finish. Try that with a Honda, Subaru etc and it doesn’t disappear and what is left is difficult to wipe off. You still get the slick finish but you have to work at it. Now try the same thing after you have applied Opti-Coat or Opti-Guard to the same finish. Now it is back to easy on easy off because the cured Opti-Coat is so much harder than the original paint.
If you are stuck with soft paint and still want to use 85RD then you do have your work cut out. I recently picked up some tips using 85RD on soft paint that consisted of swapping to a Kompressor style pad with all the slits etc, working the polish at only 600rpm for longer than normal to get some real lubrication before upping the speed to break down the polish. To eliminate marring of the surface instead of wiping away the residue, use a wet MF to gently wash away the residue and then dry with a damp MF before moving on to the next section. It is slow work because it helps to reduce the size of your sections, but you do get a superb finish even on soft paint. The slotted Kompressor pads appear to have less surface tension so that they allow the pad to more easily glide over the paint say as compared to a flat or CSS pad. Normally I don’t prime a pad with 85rd but I do now if using the Kompressor pads.
I’m not much of a fan of Optimum polishes when it comes to soft or sticky paints as the problems are even worse than with Menz. I’ve asked Dr. G for his comments re soft paint through Chris but I haven’t heard anything back. The Optimum Hyper Polish seems like a reasonable product (except for the useless sprayer) on hard paints. It has a surprising amount of cut for a product that is recommended as a polish. Warning - I wouldn’t be day dreaming when using that stuff. I gave up on the Compound so intend to sent it back as I just couldn’t get it to spray even with a replacement sprayer. The sprayer idea seemed like a great idea which in practice just wasn’t worth the trouble and mess it made. Great idea just poorly executed.
Yesterday I received the Optimum sampler kit – had a little play with the Finish polish on some more soft paint. I wasn’t immediately impressed, but as I didn’t have the time I’ve put it aside until I do have the time.
One other technique for soft paints for final polishing, even after 85RD or instead of is the Sonax Nano Paint Cleaner. I haven’t had it long, but did some testing and was sort of liking it. The jury is still out on those two until further testing.
Perhaps you have written off M205 too quickly. It certainly has its place when it comes to finishing. That is just another one I use on soft paints. No problem with wipe off using M205 on soft paints. What range of pads have you tried M205 with? Maybe you need to step down in pad. Black, Blue or Crimson??
I don’t believe that M205 can finish as well as 85RD but it will get reasonably close. I guess it depends on what you consider is perfection. One thing I’m about to try today is M205 followed up with by the Sonax.
Lasthope05
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Its like you said, soft and sticky have different definitions for people. I have no problems at all with asian paints and not all of them are soft. Hondas are but only some surbaru paints are, most are medium. If youve ever worked with real sticky paint, and I mean real sticky, then you cant classify them into soft paint category. Self-healing clears on some infinities(some subaru's also, though not self healing) are a pain if you build up any heat.
courtdale
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- Aug 25, 2011
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:iagree:
Uhm ditto, without a doubt, as a pubescent pre-teen I can remember wanting to be stuck on the island many many times.
PS - I vote Menzerna
Rei86
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That's because a lot of people purchased the "old" formula when it went on BOGO sale from AG.
The good thing that came from all this? Chris and AG took care of the customers that had the bad compound/polish/finish/whatever else that went bad for them.
The only Menz polish I have is the PO85RD and its supposed to be the best last step before LSP polish out their on the market. But I guess I'll put it up against OPT Finish when I have time.