Orange peel emerging

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highroller

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Hi Mike,

I'm encountering something strange with my new car recently purchased.

It had some medium to minor swirls so I used WG TSR n Glaze 3.0 with ccs orange and white pad on flex 3401. I was able to remove almost all the swirls but on close inspection I notice orange peel. I don't seem to get why cutting clear coat has induced orange peel?
Please help me out here mate.

Also I bought carpro velvet pads. Should I start with velvet or denim? I read your article where you used these pads on porter cable. Don't you think there should be a how to video on these pads? In article and the little video there is only before and after but not the 'how to on camera'

Thanks


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Are you saying that by using WGTSR with an orange and white pad using a 3401 you created orange peel? Either you didn't see them earlier or the swirls were hiding them. Orange peel is created by applying clear coat and not by buffing.
 
Rsurfer said:
Are you saying that by using WGTSR with an orange and white pad using a 3401 you created orange peel? Either you didn't see them earlier or the swirls were hiding them. Orange peel is created by applying clear coat and not by buffing.
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Im little amateur experience wise so therefore I am not certain what is causing orange peel whether it was before or after But definitely orange peel seemed to have emerged.
I didnt remove swirls on one panel, although it is swirled but show no orange peel or very very low orange peel.
Coming to my next query. Can someone share their experience or how on carpro orange peel removal pads? Avi@carpro or mike or anyone who would like to do a little review video and post in cam steps/process?
When to use velvet pads and when to use denim?


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Being able to see orange peel is a sign of a very shiny car chap :)

I've not used the carpro orange peel pads sorry

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
 
This is a common thing when people new to polishing start.

Think about like this, before you started polishing your car was littered with swirls scratches that sort if things and that's what your eyes noticed. These defects were masking other issues like the orange peel and RIDS.

When you go and polish or remove these below surface defects you are now able to see what has been beneath and now because your paint is clear and swirl free you eyes are now able to see the orange peel and any RIDS that maybe left.

So to say that your machine put orange peel into your paint would not be the case but doing what you did to polish the paint and make it clear what againg has let you see what was underneath.

As for the denim pads and velvet pads if this is a favorite clear then you need to keep in mind as to how thin baked on clears are so you really have little room for error and these pads though less aggressive than wetsanding are still aggressive none the less.

When working to remove the peaked of the orange peel you should know how much or have an idea of how much clear you have to work with and that would be having a Paint Thickness Gauge available to you.

Do the pads work? Yes, would they work for you and your application yes, but is it worth the risk IMO no.

The velvet pads are more geared toward the fresh paint market because when paint is fresh it's much easier to work with. The denim pads are what you would need.

Here is a write on a vehicle that mike did using the denim pads
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-using-porter-cable-dual-action-polisher.html
 
Rayner said:
Being able to see orange peel is a sign of a very shiny car chap :)
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Evan.J said:
This is a common thing when people new to polishing start.

Think about like this, before you started polishing your car was littered with swirls scratches that sort if things and that's what your eyes noticed. These defects were masking other issues like the orange peel and RIDS.

When you go and polish or remove these below surface defects you are now able to see what has been beneath and now because your paint is clear and swirl free you eyes are now able to see the orange peel and any RIDS that maybe left.
Click to expand...

Iron400 said:
Like the others have said, orange peel comes from application of CC. Polishing is just making it noticeable, since the CC is optically clear now.
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I'd agree with all of the above...


Don't worry about being new to any of this as WE all started out knowing nothing. And on this forum there is no such thing as a dumb question and our goal is to have people that give good answers in a nice manner.


As for removing the Orange Peel. Yes you can do it. I'd opt for the Denim Pads if you're using a dual action polisher, this way you're using the more aggressive pad with the less aggressive tool.

Only work a small section at a time, about the size of a 16" microfiber towel spread out on a panel. And if you're not in a hurry, only tackle a panel a day or a panel a weekend. By concentrating on only one panel like this you'll do a better job overall.

I had good luck with the M100 but it's also the only compound I've used. I think the jury is still out as to which compound works best for Denim pads on dual action polishers for removing orange peel.


:)
 
If this is orange peel in factory paint...a new car, right?...you may not want to mess with trying to remove the orange peel....especially if you are a newbie. Just sayin'

Tom :cool:
 
trust me do NOT use your velvet pads....its a car with factory paint. Learn to live with orange peel or get a repaint if youre so worried about it. Getting rid of orange peel on factory paint is super risky and hardly ever done right.
 
Also compounding and polishing over time will reduce the orange peel. Granted not as fast or as well but it is safer.
 
BlackHawk said:
trust me do NOT use your velvet pads....its a car with factory paint. Learn to live with orange peel or get a repaint if youre so worried about it. Getting rid of orange peel on factory paint is super risky and hardly ever done right.
Click to expand...

Thanks for input. I think velvet pads r not very aggressive so could be managed.
Ya the car is still new 20k on odo, never been cut before until few days ago. I'm hoping it would have enough clear coat on it. After orange peel correction I plan on opti coating to compensate the cut/sand of clear coat.


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Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I'd agree with all of the above...


Don't worry about being new to any of this as WE all started out knowing nothing. And on this forum there is no such thing as a dumb question and our goal is to have people that give good answers in a nice manner.


As for removing the Orange Peel. Yes you can do it. I'd opt for the Denim Pads if you're using a dual action polisher, this way you're using the more aggressive pad with the less aggressive tool.

Only work a small section at a time, about the size of a 16" microfiber towel spread out on a panel. And if you're not in a hurry, only tackle a panel a day or a panel a weekend. By concentrating on only one panel like this you'll do a better job overall.

I had good luck with the M100 but it's also the only compound I've used. I think the jury is still out as to which compound works best for Denim pads on dual action polishers for removing orange peel.


:)
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike. Always a pleasure to have your input.
Well my plan of action was to use velvet pad with fg400 with pcxp (speed 4.5) since it is factory clear coat. I would appreciate if you could comment whether is it safe considering factory clear coat correction always end up in mess like one user above mentioned.
Thanks


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highroller said:
Thanks for input. I think velvet pads r not very aggressive so could be managed.
Ya the car is still new 20k on odo, never been cut before until few days ago. I'm hoping it would have enough clear coat on it. After orange peel correction I plan on opti coating to compensate the cut/sand of clear coat.


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Click to expand...

Gosh I really hop you don't end up like others on here who end up burning through clear coats....No amount of opti coating is ever going to compensate that much CC loss. By the way, how many velvet pads do you have? Doing an entire car at once you'd need like over 10, since they gum up so easily.
 
BlackHawk said:
Gosh I really hop you don't end up like others on here who end up burning through clear coats....No amount of opti coating is ever going to compensate that much CC loss. By the way, how many velvet pads do you have? Doing an entire car at once you'd need like over 10, since they gum up so easily.
Click to expand...

Got 4 n no I do not plan on finishing in a day. Not in a rush.
Burning paint is different than sanding cc with these pads. I'm pretty sure if I use correct technique n opticoat it, only 20% of cc will be lost.
I'll be very much interested in hearing from "others who hVe ended in burning paint". This is the purpose I made this thread to hear about actual experiences with carpro pads.


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tguil said:
If this is orange peel in factory paint...a new car, right?...you may not want to mess with trying to remove the orange peel....especially if you are a newbie. Just sayin'

Tom :cool:
Click to expand...


Good point Tom but if he does it the way I show in my article here it's pretty safe as far as the process goes. It's also pretty slow and that makes it safe to.

How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher



af90 said:
Also compounding and polishing over time will reduce the orange peel. Granted not as fast or as well but it is safer.
Click to expand...

Correct. In fact I have an article and pictures of a 1958 Chevrolet Bel Air that I did just this thing to back around 1990


Can orange peel be removed or lessoned by just machine compounding?



highroller said:
Thanks Mike. Always a pleasure to have your input.
Well my plan of action was to use velvet pad with fg400 with pcxp (speed 4.5) since it is factory clear coat.
Click to expand...

No problemo...

highroller said:
I would appreciate if you could comment whether is it safe considering factory clear coat correction always end up in mess like one user above mentioned.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I don't know if I agree that clear coats are always messed up when using the orange peel removing pads.

I think clear coats are messed up a lot when people try to wetsand them to remove orange peel because sanding thin paint without making a mistake is a lot harder to do than most people think.

With the orange peel removal pads you're not putting scratches into the paint, you're just knocking off the tops of the hills that make orange peel what it is.

With the PC it's a slow process and that helps to make it safe for newbies and pros alike.


BlackHawk said:
By the way, how many velvet pads do you have? Doing an entire car at once you'd need like over 10, since they gum up so easily.
Click to expand...

They do gum up quickly and I have not found the perfect way to clean them as you're using them except to brush them hard with a nylon pad conditioning brush like I show in my article I posted the link to above...


Clean you pad often
There's literally no place for any paint you're removed or spent product to hide or bury into because the surface of the pad is as flat as the jeans you wear. So clean your pad often, or as I always say, work clean.

To do this I'm using the standard Nylon Pad Conditioning Brush and while it does work to remove any excess residue off the face of the pad it still doesn't leave a pad surface that looks new. So don't get all worked up over it. Just do the best you can and get back to work.

How_To_Remove_Orange_Peel_Without_Sanding_019.jpg




:)
 
highroller said:
Well my plan of action was to use velvet pad with fg400 with pcxp (speed 4.5) since it is factory clear coat. I would appreciate if you could comment whether is it safe considering factory clear coat correction always end up in mess like one user above mentioned.
Click to expand...

The velvet pads do not work on a DA. Let me rephrase that... They have little to no effect on a DA. You'll need to use the denim pads instead.

What kind of vehicle are you working on (year, make, model), and where are you located? Also, I would not proceed if you do not have a PTG.

The paint on my 2013 Honda Accord was about 4.5 to 5 mils in most places and 3 mils in a few other places. Without a PTG, I would have gone through.

A buddy of mine has a 2011 VW Passat, and the paint on that is about 3.5 mils, except for a panel that was 7 mils (obviously repainted). Orange peel removal on this car is a no-go...

Speaking of repainting, have a plan of action in case you do go through. Either have the money to get it repaired, or have the materials available to repaint it yourself (I strongly suggest practicing painting on a baking sheet).

Also, make sure you set a predefined goal as to how much orange peel you want to remove, and stick with it.

Finally, make sure you tape off your edges and body lines. I overlooked this once, and that was the time I burned through and had to repaint a door.
 
erichaley said:
The velvet pads do not work on a DA. Let me rephrase that... They have little to no effect on a DA.

You'll need to use the denim pads instead.
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Good advice on using Velvet pads with a DA polisher,

guess they will only work with the rotary buffer.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
^^^There's something about the above that causes me to yearn for more proof.^^^
think.gif


erichaley said:
The paint on my 2013 Honda Accord was about 4.5 to 5 mils in most places and 3 mils in a few other places. Without a PTG, I would have gone through.

A buddy of mine has a 2011 VW Passat, and the paint on that is about 3.5 mils, except for a panel that was 7 mils (obviously repainted). Orange peel removal on this car is a no-go...
Click to expand...
Even though your paint was "thinner" in a few places...
I believe I can understand your concern about: going through...your Buddy's vehicle's paint.

yes.gif


Bob
 
FUNX725 said:
^^^There's something about the above that causes me to yearn for more proof.^^^
Click to expand...

I'd be happy to send you out one of my velvet pads so you can do your own testing...

I tried at least three different compounds on multiple test areas along with a control, and saw no appreciable difference. Again, this was on a DA, not a rotary, which is what the pads were designed for.
 
erichaley said:
I tried at least three different compounds on multiple test areas along with a control, and saw no appreciable difference.

Again, this was on a DA, not a rotary, which is what the pads were designed for.
Click to expand...


With a DA Polisher I find this easy to believe because,

A: The tool is on the gentle side as compared to a rotary buffer.

B: The Velvet pads are soft and plush, like you would think of velvet.
​

This is why I didn't even think of trying them with the DA when I did the 1947 Chevy Pickup. I wanted to get in there and cut the top surface down.



:)
 
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