I was at the Philly auto show yesterday and was checking out some of the high end cars(ZR1 Corvette, lexus, BMW, etc). On every one of these cars there was orange peel everywhere. My question is, why can't auto manufacturers paint these cars without orange peel? If i'm going to shell out $130,000( ZR1 Corvette) for a car, i would think that the paint would be perfect. Just one of my pet peeves.
Orange peel
- Thread starter R/TED
- Start date
warrior151
New member
- Aug 10, 2011
- 77
- 0
R/Ted...I am with you on this. I was just talking about this on the Forum this weekend with my new 2012 Grand Cherokee Overland Summit...I have the Mineral Grey and it looks hideous...Jeep is sending a representative over to take a look at it...it is shiny and powerful...but I cant get past the paint...
Don
Don
Porsche Pilot
New member
- Jun 25, 2010
- 1,750
- 0
From what I understand, they are mixing too much air in the ratio. That equates to less paint being sprayed and a cost savings for the manufacturer. Orange peel is the trade off for a car company saving a few nickels. Of course, I could be completely wrong. I have a good friend that is a custom car builder and he shoots his clear at about 16psi. He says that 30 plus psi is common for a factory spray.
sparty
New member
- Dec 9, 2011
- 144
- 0
I toured a GM auto plant two years ago and had the chance to see their production painting system. The painting robots use a device that atomizes the paint to help ensure a pretty even coat. The problem with this system is that for primer/sealer and both base and clear coat the thin atomized paint will "pile" on the uneven primer/sealer creating what we call orange peel. They no longer sand smooth the primer/sealer to create a flat painting surface - takes too much hand labor which equals $$$$. You would think that as the cars move up in price range, they would paint them to higher specification, but they receive the same painting system albeit sometimes using a "better" paint. Regardless, mass production painting using this system will result in a less then perfect finish.
Other than some exotic car manufactures, body panels are not sanded smooth following the primer/sealer and base coat stages. Those that are show a remarkably better finish, but I have seen Ferraris with slight amounts of orange peel on some panels.
If you have even seen a Concours winning car or other custom painted car, you will drool at the perfect paint. I was at the Barrett Jackson auction a few years ago and there were a few cars that had flawless, two inch deep looking paint on them. They were glass smooth and reflected like a polished mirror.
One of the cars had a picture book of the paint process. They used a metal etching sealer/primer, then four layers of primer/filler blocked and wet sanded after each coat. Six layers of base, again blocked and wet sanded after each coat. It was then followed with two pearl layers blocked and wet sanding the first layer. It was finished with three layers of clear blocked and wet sanded. The final coat of clear was allowed to naturally cure and then it was rotary polished. It was stunning.
-Sparty
Other than some exotic car manufactures, body panels are not sanded smooth following the primer/sealer and base coat stages. Those that are show a remarkably better finish, but I have seen Ferraris with slight amounts of orange peel on some panels.
If you have even seen a Concours winning car or other custom painted car, you will drool at the perfect paint. I was at the Barrett Jackson auction a few years ago and there were a few cars that had flawless, two inch deep looking paint on them. They were glass smooth and reflected like a polished mirror.
One of the cars had a picture book of the paint process. They used a metal etching sealer/primer, then four layers of primer/filler blocked and wet sanded after each coat. Six layers of base, again blocked and wet sanded after each coat. It was then followed with two pearl layers blocked and wet sanding the first layer. It was finished with three layers of clear blocked and wet sanded. The final coat of clear was allowed to naturally cure and then it was rotary polished. It was stunning.
-Sparty
Murman
New member
- Dec 14, 2011
- 28
- 0
I have a 2011 Mineral Grey Metallic Jeep Patriot that has a very "piled" look to the paint. As if the paint were applied, then hit with a blower.
Bates Detailing
New member
- Jan 11, 2011
- 3,074
- 0
WOW - thats alot of cool info there..... thanx man
I bet they will market orange peel as the thing to have lol - the new biggest best thing for automotive paint
rops:.
Jaretr1
New member
- Jan 29, 2011
- 2,391
- 0
Orange peel isn't totally terrible. While really bad Orange peel looks, well bad, moderate to light Orange peel actually helps reduce the visibility of wear and tear (dings, chips, scratches etc). So for a daily driver, some Orange peel is ok.
I was at Mecum last week in kissimmee and some of the pristine restored cars had virtually perfect paint. I found this a little disingenuous as so much effort is put in to replicating the car as it was when it was new, but these cars are far superior to new after a quality restoration.
I was at Mecum last week in kissimmee and some of the pristine restored cars had virtually perfect paint. I found this a little disingenuous as so much effort is put in to replicating the car as it was when it was new, but these cars are far superior to new after a quality restoration.
Bates Detailing
New member
- Jan 11, 2011
- 3,074
- 0
OK - so I saw a thread by Superior Shine (the man by the way) - he wetsanded orange peel completely out. If that is the case, then he basically sanded down the clear and produced near perfect clarity in the paint. So with that said, orange peel is produced by a S%^&^$ clear application?!?!?!?
wildjyoung
New member
- Jan 10, 2011
- 142
- 0
Based upon what I understand the increase in orange peel is due VOC (Volatile Organic Compound) restrictions in automobile paints. With higher VOC's the paint lays flatter and the solvents evaporate faster which produces a better paint job.
ShaunD
New member
- Nov 19, 2010
- 1,255
- 0
From my knowledge orange peel is mostly from bad setup of the paint spraying equipment, e.g. too much air and/or moving too fast over the surface while too far from the panels. When I was taught in the Navy (over 10 years ago) how to setup a paint gun and paint we were told about how to prevent orange peel specifically and that was with spraying polyurethane and epoxy paints that were far from VOC compliant or water based.
wildjyoung
New member
- Jan 10, 2011
- 142
- 0
I am not sure what the truth really is. I was just told by a person who has painted cars for 20+ years that long ago you could paint a car with little to no orange peel if the painter was skilled. However with newer paints even the most skilled will still get orange peel due to new paint formulations.
I will see if I can get him to post in this thread on his experience.
I will see if I can get him to post in this thread on his experience.
- Thread starter
- #14
Thanks for shedding some light on this. 99% of the car buying public don't see or don't care about this but, i'm sure the other 1% find this very annoying. I plan on buying a 2012 Mustang within the next month or so and will have the car wet sanded to get rid of any orange peel. I want a perfectly flat, smooth finish.
thee are no more skilled painters...just robots....
sparty
New member
- Dec 9, 2011
- 144
- 0
Exactly! Some people think that the orange peel is only in the last coat because you can wet sand it and remove what looks like a good bit of it, but the real problem begins as early as the primer/sealer coat. Wet sanding the clear to reduce orange peel thins the clear in the high spots to bring it level with the low spots. The problem is, the high spots are now very thin once sanded down, but the low spots are still thicker - so you have a varying paint layer. While smoother, it is more "fragile" to UV and can limit further corrections if too thin.
You can't win the orange peel war unless you intend to start from scratch. A good remedy but costly and time consuming is to block sand your clear and have it reshot with a few layers of clear blocking between the layers.
- Sparty
Unfortunately there are not a lot of bodyshops willing to do that. I looked into it once, called around maybe a dozen shops. Nobody wanted to touch a sand and re-clear.
Looking back, I think it was because I was calling places that mostly did collision work. I suppose if I tried some places that specialized in show car finishes I might have better luck, although I imagine it would be pretty pricey.
Midnight1700
New member
- Aug 14, 2010
- 275
- 0
Unfortunately there is no consistant way to eliminate orange peel when spraying. Think of a single droplet of paint as a small stone. When you toss the stone in the pond you will see a ripple effect in the water. Same goes for spraying paint. Even in the best paint shops, orange peel happens. That's why they charge extra for "Color Sanding".
sparty
New member
- Dec 9, 2011
- 144
- 0
I totally hijacked this thread - sorry.
When my Acura got side swiped by a drunk driver I had it repaired and then took it to a paint specialist. We blocked down the clear and he reshot it with three layers of clear. $700 is what I paid, but I helped with some of the labor.
Here is the kicker: Less than a year later I got caught in a golf ball sized hail storm on Interstate 80 with nowhere to hide. Insurance paid for the dent-less repair and new windshield. I traded the car a few weeks later because it was bad luck.
-Sparty