Overly Oxidized Clear Coat

sk8bug

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Hi,
I've got a friend's 1999 Toyota Corolla that appears to be badly neglected, left out in the weather 24/7 & never waxed.
I'm trying to assess whether it can be detailed without damage to the base coat below the overly oxidized clear coat.
After washing I think I should clay a very small area on the lower rear fender, then use Meguiar's Ultimate compound with a hand applicator to see what gets removed.
After Reading Mike Phillips single stage paint repair on the '73 Continental, I may consider using Mirror Glaze #7, if the paint appears too degraded to progress with compound. But my main issue is how to proceed if the clear coat is totally compromised.
Any thoughts are appreciated! :xyxthumbs:
 
I did a car that had CC failure (clear coat) left and right (to save what is left)

It added a significant amount of shine to what was left

Now a quick wash and spray wax is all it gets, it still has plenty of RIDS.

But IMO at least what is left, is waxed now and a true repaint would cost more than the car.

Need to see pictures or better in person to advise you, I'll let others chime in.

Good Luck and keep it fun

-Art
 
Yes pics please so we can see what you talking about.
 
Is the car white? If so it probably is single stage and has no clear coat. Not sure what other colors were single stage but have seen a lot of single stage white Toyotas.

Pictures please... :Picture:
 
In reverse order from how these were posted, first this...


Is the car white?

If so it probably is single stage and has no clear coat.


Not sure what other colors were single stage but have seen a lot of single stage white Toyota's.

Pictures please...


Correct. Toyota did not use a BC/CC paint system on a lot of their white passenger cars.

White paint uses Titanium Dioxide Powder for pigment and this makes the paint very hard which means it will resist deterioration more than all other colors. This is why you see a lot of LARGE things that people don't ever want to re-paint again painted white. Think water towers out in the middle of nowhere or large Jets.

Also I cover this in my article here, even talk about the Mohs Hardness Scale.


The Lesson White Paint Teaches Us


Mike Phillips said:
The Mohs Scale of Hardness

In 1822, an Austrian scientist by the name of Fredrick Mohs created a scale from 1 to 10, for measuring and determining hardness. Hardness refers to the measure of resistance a surfaces has to abrasion. Talc is rated at 1 while a diamond is rated at 10.

Titanium dioxide, the substance used as pigmentation in white paint, is rated at 7 on the Mohs scale. As far as pigments go, titanium dioxide is very hard. By contrast, black paints, (single-stage), are soft. The pigment used to make paint black is Carbon black, which has a Mohs hardness rating of 2.

While some will argue the Mohs Hardness Scale isn't the best way to explain paint hardness, in this example I'm only using it as an indicator of the hardness of different substances used as pigments or colorants used in automotive paints and when it comes to a single stage paint the type of pigment used WILL effect the hardness or softness of the resin/paint and this will affect how easy or hard it is for someone to work on the paint.






Hi,
I've got a friend's 1999 Toyota Corolla that appears to be badly neglected, left out in the weather 24/7 & never waxed.


The car is 14 years old and the owner and/or owners have neglected the paint. So it's normal for the paint to finally give up the ghost.

I have a criteria for deciding if I'll work on someone's car and that is the person has to actually care about their car. If they don't care then there's no reason to fix it.

You see, if they don't care, then if you fix it it will just revert back to how it was before you fixed it. This means that while your intentions are both good and noble, you're wasting your time, money and energy when you could be working on something for someone that cars. That's just me of course.

Someone actually PM'd me the exact same above scenario this week and I gave them the same answer.



I'm trying to assess whether it can be detailed without damage to the base coat below the overly oxidized clear coat.


A couple of points....

If the car does or did have a clearcoat and now the basecoat is exposed nothing you do is going to make it any worse. Of course if the car does have a clear coat and it is failing working on it is a waste of time anyway as the only HONEST fix for clear coat failure is to repaint the car.


If the car is single stage paint then you can probably fix it if it isn't past the point of no return.


See my how-to book for more information on paint condition category "Past the point of no return" or read my article here,

Page 37 - Paint Condition Categories



The first thing you need to do is determine if the car does in fact have a basecoat/clearcoat paint system or a single stage paint system.

I cover how to do this test in my how-to book and in this article,


How to Test for Single Stage or Clear Coat Paint


To test for a single stage paint, try to find a light colored or white polish if you're working on any kind of pigmented paint. If you're testing white paint then try to use a polish with a color to it and a dark colored cloth, (so you can confirm that you're removing white paint and not just seeing the color of the paint).
56StarCheif039.jpg



Use an ample amount for plenty of lubrication as you're going to want to push firmly if no oxidation is present as was the case with the finish on the classic car.
56StarCheif040.jpg



56StarCheif041.jpg




Confirmed, we're working on a single stage paint... also note the heavier accumulation were my fingers pressed down with the most pressure... this is because you can exert more pressure to the small area of your finger tips than you can with your entire hand, you can use this to work for you or cause problems depending upon what you're trying to do...
56StarCheif042.jpg



You can find examples of what clear coat failure looks like in this article,


The Clearcoat Failure Photo Gallery Archive





:)
 
If the car does have a single stage finish and you do decide to fix it, here's a write-up that shows how to do it in one-step, which might be a good approach if doing this for someone that will likely not take care of it after you do all the hard work.

If you do the car I would encourage you to get the owner to participate as that way you can educate them plus let them see first hand how much work goes into damage control.


KISS Detail - Extreme Makeover - Toyota Highlander

BEFORE

1eoWhite001.jpg


1eoWhite002.jpg




AFTER

1eoWhite029.jpg


1eoWhite030.jpg




The guy that owns the Toyota above also neglected it as he's not a "Car Guy". I saw this rig a few months ago and it still looks pretty good. Of course, I make him help me so he knows what goes into undoing years of his neglect.


1eoWhite017.jpg










Good luck...


:xyxthumbs:
 
Hey thanks for all the help you guys!

You'll be shocked when I tell you it's a pro-bono for a friend though. It looks just a little worse than the Highlander in Mike's post. She said she needs a new car since it looks so bad and has 130k miles... I then said, "If it looked like new would you still drive it?"

It still runs like a champ, so I'm attempting to show her that if she started taking care of it, she may take more pride in it.

Maybe I'm being naïve, hoping she'll change. Mike's idea of having the car owner do some of the work is probably the clue to changing the habit.

I will take your good advice to heart considering it's about teaching someone else to care for their own car with their abilities, not mine. Since an AIO is the easiest for teaching her that's what I'll do. I'd like better results for me, but I see the impracticalities of that now.


My parents were depression era babies. They taught me to take care of my things & make them last. I carry that mindset into detailing as a hobby thanks to Mike's book & training videos on AG. The products & tools are ideal & the procedures are documented perfectly.

Thanks again
 
Maybe I'm being naïve, hoping she'll change. Mike's idea of having the car owner do some of the work is probably the clue to changing the habit.

Been there done that, did free details thinking the owner would change... I'd say it's about as rare as hen's teeth...

But hey... once in a while you find a Chicken with teeth!


Hens-Teeth.jpg




I will take your good advice to heart considering it's about teaching someone else to care for their own car with their abilities, not mine. Since an AIO is the easiest for teaching her that's what I'll do. I'd like better results for me, but I see the impracticalities of that now.

Using a one-step will be a great approach... and teaching her even just a little will help her to appreciate it...


"Each one teach one"




My parents were depression era babies. They taught me to take care of my things & make them last.

My parents instilled a very strong work ethic in me and my brothers and sisters for which I'm always thankful.



I carry that mindset into detailing as a hobby thanks to Mike's book & training videos on AG.

The products & tools are ideal & the procedures are documented perfectly.

Thanks again

Thank you for the kind compliment, I put a lot of work into my how-to book and I know it's the most information dense how-to book on the market.


:)
 
I have a criteria for deciding if I'll work on someone's car and that is the person has to actually care about their car. If they don't care then there's no reason to fix it.

You see, if they don't care, then if you fix it it will just revert back to how it was before you fixed it. This means that while your intentions are both good and noble, you're wasting your time, money and energy when you could be working on something for someone that cars. That's just me of course.

That's a great piece of advice, Mike. :xyxthumbs:
 
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