Pad Size why 5.5 in.??

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M Porter

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I have a 2012 BMW that I have been polishing. I am new to this so I could be wrong, but it sure seems to have a hard clear coat. After getting frustrated over the length of time it was taking I have ordered 5 ½ pads. Will I notice that much difference dropping from 6 ½ to 5 ½ pads? What size of pads do most people on here use with a DA polisher?

Mike
 
Your technique is the most important variable, but 5.5" pads will help. I use 5.5" and 4" pads with my DA and rotary.
 
Hi Mike,

The 6 1/2" diameter pads a Porter Cable type dual action polisher in my opinion pushes the limit of the machine and this could be part of the problem.

I have the Porter Cable 7424 and found a world of difference when I decided to try Lake Country 5 1/2 diameter pads.

The Porter Cable 7424 style dual action polisher should come standard with 5 1/2 inch pads and corresponding backing plate.

Pads & Friction

The size or surface area does not directly affect the frictional force between two surfaces until downward force or pressure is applied. Reducing the pad size will only improve the mechanical efficiency of the machine.

The motor of your polisher produces some amount of power. The larger the pad surface area the harder the motor must work. Now, most will say "it's only 1 extra inch", but when it comes to surface area and friction your really talking about an additional 10 square inches. Now take a look at the difference between the 5 1/2", 6 1/2" and 7" pad...........Size does matter!

Surface Area - 5 1/2 pad = 23.75 in²

Surface Area - 6 1/2 pad = 33.18 in²

Surface Area - 7 pad = 38.484 in²

There is a direct relationship between the pad surface area and the polishers ability to transfer adequate power to the pad improving it's overall performance.

  • What products are you using?
  • What pads are you using?
  • What speed setting are you using for correction?
Here's some great information by Mike Phillips that will help you if you need it.

 
Pad size matters less depending on the DA you are using. On a Griot's, you can do well with a 6.5" pad, but 5.5" is better since it fits and conforms better to the body of the car, it's curves, etc. plus poviding optimal cutting power. The PC is lower in power so using a smaller pad is optimal for it, 5.5" max from my experience, 4" is even better. It just depends on the DA you are using.
 
BobbyG said:
Hi Mike,

The 6 1/2" diameter pads a Porter Cable type dual action polisher in my opinion pushes the limit of the machine and this could be part of the problem.

I have the Porter Cable 7424 and found a world of difference when I decided to try Lake Country 5 1/2 diameter pads.

The Porter Cable 7424 style dual action polisher should come standard with 5 1/2 inch pads and corresponding backing plate.

Pads & Friction

The size or surface area does not directly affect the frictional force between two surfaces until downward force or pressure is applied. Reducing the pad size will only improve the mechanical efficiency of the machine.

The motor of your polisher produces some amount of power. The larger the pad surface area the harder the motor must work. Now, most will say "it's only 1 extra inch", but when it comes to surface area and friction your really talking about an additional 10 square inches. Now take a look at the difference between the 5 1/2", 6 1/2" and 7" pad...........Size does matter!

Surface Area - 5 1/2 pad = 23.75 in²

Surface Area - 6 1/2 pad = 33.18 in²

Surface Area - 7 pad = 38.484 in²

There is a direct relationship between the pad surface area and the polishers ability to transfer adequate power to the pad improving it's overall performance.

  • What products are you using?
  • What pads are you using?
  • What speed setting are you using for correction?
Here's some great information by Mike Phillips that will help you if you need it.

Click to expand...
:goodpost::whs:
Read the threads BobbyG posted above and answer the questions he ask and I think you will be on your way to solving your issues!:dblthumb2:
 
I apologize I should have given a bit more info. I am using a Griot’s DA(not the Professional model:joking:), with their orange pads and Megs 105. After a few frustrating hours, I sped up to near 6. Before this I was closer to 5 and applying a fair amount of pressure. I have slowed my arm speed to much less than Mike’s (in his video), with less pressure and seem to be getting better results. My order has just arrived (unfortunately not through AG, due to being a canuck) with 5 ½ pads and proper backing plate. I am very curious as to the difference in my time and labour. It makes a lot of sense when discussing the square inches, between the two. My first hobby (or love??) is playing snooker. The difference between a 6x12 and a 4 ½ x 9 table, dimension wise, does not sound like much. There is 75% more playing area on the larger table. So yes size matters. One last question, when I switch to Megs 205 should I stick with the orange pads?

Thanks for all the help.
Mike
 
Mike,

Meguiar's M205 is a nice polish that will remove 2000 to 2500 sanding grit marks. I'd try this using a primed White foam polishing pad and don't be afraid try M205 and a gray foam pad.

White Polishing Foam - Less dense foam formula for the application of waxes, micro-fine polishes and sealants. This pad has very light cutting power so it’s perfect for pre-wax cleaners.

Gray Finishing 6.5 inch Foam Pad - Composition is firm enough to withstand added pressure during final finishing to remove buffer swirls. It has no cut and will apply thin, even coats of waxes, sealants, and glazes.
 
What type pads do you have?
Typically you would change to a white? (depending on the pads for the color) polishing pad when switching to M205
 
M Porter said:
I apologize I should have given a bit more info. I am using a Griot’s DA(not the Professional model:joking:), with their orange pads and Megs 105. After a few frustrating hours, I sped up to near 6. Before this I was closer to 5 and applying a fair amount of pressure. I have slowed my arm speed to much less than Mike’s (in his video), with less pressure and seem to be getting better results. My order has just arrived (unfortunately not through AG, due to being a canuck) with 5 ½ pads and proper backing plate. I am very curious as to the difference in my time and labour. It makes a lot of sense when discussing the square inches, between the two. My first hobby (or love??) is playing snooker. The difference between a 6x12 and a 4 ½ x 9 table, dimension wise, does not sound like much. There is 75% more playing area on the larger table. So yes size matters. One last question, when I switch to Megs 205 should I stick with the orange pads?

Thanks for all the help.
Mike
Click to expand...

The Griot's orange pads do not have much cut but finish nice so keep them around for the Megs 205. What 5.5" pads did you get?
I have a Griot's DA and did a friend's BMW with a 5.5" LC Hydro-tech pad, Griot's #1 polish, speed 6, and had to practically stand on the thing to get any correction.
 
M Porter said:
I have a 2012 BMW that I have been polishing. I am new to this so I could be wrong, but it sure seems to have a hard clear coat. After getting frustrated over the length of time it was taking I have ordered 5 ½ pads. Will I notice that much difference dropping from 6 ½ to 5 ½ pads? What size of pads do most people on here use with a DA polisher?

Mike
Click to expand...

I hope you didn't forget to get a 5" back plate
 
Thanks BobbyG and Buckskincolt for the advice. I will use the white pads with the Meg’s 205 to top off the 105. Any suggestions pertaining to my question about today’s detailing?

This is an excellent site and the members are extremely helpful. After saying that the only draw back is that the more you read the more confusing it can get.

I was going to start a thread on all the different pad and compound variations but here goes with my confusion. With the wide variety of pads and compounds, the actual steps from one to another becomes confusing. That is where help from those more experienced comes in. I certainly am not questioning the advice I have be given, but I have a question. If sanding(laymen’s term) paint is done in succession, would jumping from an orange pad to a white, not be skipping a step? If I had not posted here, I would have used the 205 on the orange pad.

I have done a fair bit of refurbishing wood and if a jump in sandpaper grit is too drastic, it will be difficult to hide the previous grits scratch pattern. Am I trying to annelize this far too much?

I have purchased 5 ½ in orange and yellow pads, along with the 5 inch backing plate. I also purchased 5 ½ surbuf pads. In the 6 inch pads I have orange(Griot & LC), white & black LC.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to clear up my confusion. I will be getting back at the car after having some coffee and breakfast. Which pad do people suggest I use, of the 5 ½ inch that I have bought?


Again, thanks for all the help.
Mike
 
I was in the same boat as you a little more than a year ago. There are so many pad and product choices and combinations it makes your head spin. That's why I decided to go with the LC Hydro Tech line. Three pads for three jobs. Cyan for compounding, tangerine for polishing, crimson for LSP.

Of course pad and product choice depends on what works with your technique and paint. What you need to do us a test spot and decide from there. Maybe orange and 205 IS what you need instead of white and 205. Most cases will be white but you won't know until you actually do it. The best plan is to have many pads available to meet your needs. Again, that's why I chose the hydro tech line; I only have to stay stocked up in three different pads. My plan was to go to different pads once I learned more but I like the hydros so much that I think I'll stock with 'em.
 
M Porter said:
Thanks BobbyG and Buckskincolt for the advice. I will use the white pads with the Meg’s 205 to top off the 105. Any suggestions pertaining to my question about today’s detailing?

This is an excellent site and the members are extremely helpful. After saying that the only draw back is that the more you read the more confusing it can get.

I was going to start a thread on all the different pad and compound variations but here goes with my confusion. With the wide variety of pads and compounds, the actual steps from one to another becomes confusing. That is where help from those more experienced comes in. I certainly am not questioning the advice I have be given, but I have a question. If sanding(laymen’s term) paint is done in succession, would jumping from an orange pad to a white, not be skipping a step? If I had not posted here, I would have used the 205 on the orange pad.

I have done a fair bit of refurbishing wood and if a jump in sandpaper grit is too drastic, it will be difficult to hide the previous grits scratch pattern. Am I trying to annelize this far too much?

I have purchased 5 ½ in orange and yellow pads, along with the 5 inch backing plate. I also purchased 5 ½ surbuf pads. In the 6 inch pads I have orange(Griot & LC), white & black LC.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to clear up my confusion. I will be getting back at the car after having some coffee and breakfast. Which pad do people suggest I use, of the 5 ½ inch that I have bought?


Again, thanks for all the help.
Mike
Click to expand...

Their comments are based on practical experience. M105 will remove swirls and scratches yet will finish pretty well but with some marring, M205 w/white pad will be sufficient to remove this marring and leave an lsp-ready surface
 
Other than the time element, the work that I have done so far with the 105 has been pleasing. A couple of friends that have seen the work in progress, have stated that I should just LSP it from there. Knowing that 105 is an aggressive compound, that is out of the question. As with all projects, there is a lot more prep than people realize. My goal, in the pad department, is to also get it as simple as possible. I have a few hobbies and realize what works for one doesn’t for another. The trick is to find what works for you and stick with it. I hate to talk out of both sides of my mouth, but after saying that, an open mind is also a must. Listening to an experienced person is worth its weight in gold. Well I’m off, wish me luck.

Mike
 
M Porter said:
Other than the time element, the work that I have done so far with the 105 has been pleasing. A couple of friends that have seen the work in progress, have stated that I should just LSP it from there. Knowing that 105 is an aggressive compound, that is out of the question.
Click to expand...

M105 uses some pretty amazing abrasive technology and at the time of this post is the compound to beat by all competitors. What makes it amazing is how it can be so aggressive yet finish out like a polish.

For some people, not all but some, after using M105 or its cousin Ultimate Compound, you can immediately apply a wax or paint sealant. Depends upon a person's expectations and to some degree the color of their car. Remember,

One man's ceiling is another man's floor


M Porter said:
The trick is to find what works for you and stick with it.
Click to expand...

I've been posting something like that since making my first posts to the "Internet" in 1994, it goes like this,

"Find something you like and use it often"


The story behind that quote is in my article list here,

"Find something you like and use it often"



M Porter said:
Well I’m off, wish me luck.

Mike
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as luck, only preparedness meets opportunity. Our forum prepares you.


:xyxthumbs:
 
For anyone that gets bored...

The SMAT Pack - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products...


SMATaggressivenessOrder.jpg


(I need to update this thread)



:)
 
Thanks Mike, like I said a few weeks back when I registered, this is one excellent forum.

An update from today: the 5 ½ inch pads are much more efficient than the 6 ½. It still seems to be taking more time than it should. I have a very slow arm speed and small working area, but have to go over the area for at least three sessions(1 session would be 6 passes in each direction). Am I being too anal by aiming for as close to 100% as I can? I'm thinking of giving the yellow pads a try tomorrow. After the yellow pads with 105, do I then go to the orange with 105?

Mike
 
M Porter said:
but have to go over the area for at least three sessions(1 session would be 6 passes in each direction). Am I being too anal by aiming for as close to 100% as I can?
Click to expand...

Just to make sure, you're using M105 with 5.5" Orange Cutting pads and buffing each section 3 times and each time you're doing approximately 6 section passes for an approximate total of around 18 section passes per section?


And... you still see?

A. Just a few random deeper scratches?

Or

B. There are still LOTS of swirls and scratches everywhere in the paint.



:)
 
Hi Mike, your description of 18 section passes would be correct. To make sure we are talking about the same thing. If by swirls you mean scratches caused by the use of the DA, I do not have any. What is left are a few random deeper scratches.

I watched all your videos and am following them to a “T” except I have slowed my arm speed down to below your’s, with the machine on 5.5. I have since started using the 5 ½ yellow pad. The results are much better and I’ve only had to go over a few areas for a second session.

With the lighting, there does not seem to be any haze and the paint looks good. I will back it outside to confirm. Should I be finishing off with 105 and the orange pad, before progressing to the 205 on a white pad?

I hope that this is what would be considered a hard clear coat.

Mike
 
Most of my polishing experience is on my Nissan and BMW. The Nissan has a sticker under the hood stating "hard clear coat", so that's my reference for hard clear coat.

Hard Clear Coat:

a69368a1-143f-7754.jpg


This paint (Nissan) took a LC 5.5" yellow foam pad on a PC 7424 to correct using Wolfgang TSR. It did seem hard. I used the Finishing Glaze on a white pad, but like you, I noticed little or no difference after that step compared to before. Compared to my Nissan (your BMW could be much different) the BMW "paint" seemed "softer". It took an orange LC pad (same, machine, and polishes) to remove similar defects. I'm not a pro, just a hobbyist. But I just wanted to tell you, both cars took a LONG time, several days in fact, to do everything as recommended, and to work clean. Unless your a pro, it just takes a long time. Also, be careful with that yellow pad, its much harder compared to the orange one. I know many say it's impossible, but I actually burned through a very small section of clear coat on the fender edge of my Nissan chasing after a deep scratch. And that was with an original 7424 PC. Remember, every pass you are removing paint, and if you chase after every single defect you are leveling the paint to the lowest level of that scratch, especially with the yellow pad. You can improve a deeper RID or scratch by lowering it, not completely removing it. The Nissan is Opti Coated, but next time I do the BMW, I think I'll try an AIO, except for the hood and trunk - as they are the only real places it shows scratches.
 
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