Pad size ????

[LRC3]

Hey guys,

I just purchased a GG6 and 5' BP after researching forever and had a pad size question..

I understand why Mike and everyone recommends 5.5 pads, I get that!! But does that logic still apply to the new THIN pads that are available?

I'm thinking, correct me if I'm wrong now, wouldn't a thin 6.5 pad spin just as efficiently as a thick 5.5 since their about half the thickness.. Half the thickness = half the product as well, no??

So does the 5.5 pad logic still hold weight now, or fall by the waist side? From my understanding that IS the issue right, spinning? I know 5.5 pads being smaller will always have their place on the team.

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here but my Sequioa is just soooooooo big:buffing: I know I can get away with a 6.5 finishing pad. But at the end of the day, I just want it don't right, the EASIEST way possible:nomore:

I'm just trying to buy the right tools ONCE.
So far I have a GG6, 105/205/21/26, Meg MF cut and finishing pads.

I'm looking at Megs THIN and LC Hydros THIN.

My name is LRC3, I'm a rookie and AG addic..rops:
Thank you!!

 

[Paul A.]

Interesting question and i understand your motives for asking. I'm no physics or engineering major but i thought it comes down to the mass of what's spinning along with it's relation to the "throw". If i understand your point, i guess you're saying the mass of a normal 5.5" pad may be close to the new thin 6.5". If so, covering the area of your Sequoia would be faster. I'd be interested to hear what the true experts say.

 

[DaveT435]

If your talking about using a 6.5 inch pad on a 5" backing plate I would be more concerned about not having equal pressure on the face of the pad. I may be wrong...just my .02

 

[Rmd]

The 6" backplate that comes stock on the GG6 will work with 6.5 pads. The GG6 has no problem spinning 6.5 pads. Thin pads should make the process more user friendly under the logic of reduced mass I imagine.

If you really want to go with 6.5 pads for the flatter panels, you certainly can with the setup you have. For correcting and polishing, you may find that you prefer the 5.5 setup over the 6.5.

 

[LRC3]

If your talking about using a 6.5 inch pad on a 5" backing plate I would be more concerned about not having equal pressure on the face of the pad. I may be wrong...just my .02

No sir. I'm referring to 5bp w/5.5 pad and 6bp w/6.5 pad.

The 6" backplate that comes stock on the GG6 will work with 6.5 pads. The GG6 has no problem spinning 6.5 pads. Thin pads should make the process more user friendly under the logic of reduced mass I imagine.

If you really want to go with 6.5 pads for the flatter panels, you certainly can with the setup you have. For correcting and polishing, you may find that you prefer the 5.5 setup over the 6.5.

That's where I was going to be honest 5.5 compound/polish, 6.5 wax.

Thanks guys, hope I wasn't overthinking, just throwing out a thoughtrops:. These thin pads do add a different variable to old thinking.

 

[allenk4]

In my experience it is more about the increased surface area of a 6 1/2" pad that increases the amount of total friction and therefore, increases the amount of torque required to spin the pad

Going from a 5 1/2" to 6 1/2" pad increases surface area by 40%

Theoretically, this would cut you polishing time by 40%


The decreased thickness of the pad does reduce the amount of energy lost between the BP and the paint. This also helps with rotation and cutting power.


I mainly use 5 1/2" pads on my FLEX, but the next set of pads I buy will be 6"

I believe you should use the largest pad that your machine can rotate and you can efficiently work into the curves. You wouldn't polish an entire car with 4" pads, so why would you use 5 1/2" when you can use 6 1/2"?

 

[DaveT435]

From what I've heard the GG machine has quite a bit of power. I don't think you would have any issues using the larger plate.

 

[cardaddy]

Honestly..... the GG6 doesn't have a problem spinning, compounding, polishing with even the 6½" CCS pads. Where the smaller pad come into play more is once you start working the curves.

I'd say you could hit your large flat areas on the Sequoia with whatever 6½" pads you have laying around. I stopped using them on my GG6 but it wasn't because they were not spinning/working. I just liked the feel of the smaller pad better.

FWIW I like the CCS pads (in either size) because they have flat edges. Much easier to get up to an edge with them than a curved edge pad.

Next week though I'll be getting my new Flex 3401 from Nick (er: Santa) and it'll be time to break out the 4~5 dozen 6½" pads again.

I can tell ya' one thing, the Rupes Duetto WILL NOT work with the larger pads! That puppy really likes the Rupes pads, plus those pads have a nice defined edge (with their reverse taper) that makes them get up to an edge as good as (if not better) than the CCS pads. Although, the Duetto works great with any 5½" pad. :xyxthumbs:

One thing it does do (well all the Rupes machines actually) is HOLD ON TO THE PADS like they've been WELDED onto the backing plate. Getting the foam pads off the backing plate you need to be careful. But OMG.... if you are working with one of the Rupes microfiber pads... you need to first let it cool for a while, then second, be very very VERY careful, working around the edge, perhaps even taking the back of a small brush handle, or a plastic scraper/credit card and stuffing it between the pad and backing plate while you work your way around it. The microfiber pads have a foam back, (sort of feels like heavy latex foam) that heats up a bit, but more importantly will COMPLETELY rip apart when you are trying to remove the pad from the backing plate.

Nobody will EVER say that Rupes doesn't use the toughest Velcro on the planet!

 

[dlc95]

In my experience it is more about the increased surface area of a 6 1/2" pad that increases the amount of total friction and therefore, increases the amount of torque required to spin the pad

Going from a 5 1/2" to 6 1/2" pad increases surface area by 40%

Theoretically, this would cut you polishing time by 40%


The decreased thickness of the pad does reduce the amount of energy lost between the BP and the paint. This also helps with rotation and cutting power.


I mainly use 5 1/2" pads on my FLEX, but the next set of pads I buy will be 6"

I believe you should use the largest pad that your machine can rotate and you can efficiently work into the curves. You wouldn't polish an entire car with 4" pads, so why would you use 5 1/2" when you can use 6 1/2"?

Agreed, especially regarding surface area.

 

[dlc95]

Honestly..... the GG6 doesn't have a problem spinning, compounding, polishing with even the 6½" CCS pads. Where the smaller pad come into play more is once you start working the curves.

I'd say you could hit your large flat areas on the Sequoia with whatever 6½" pads you have laying around. I stopped using them on my GG6 but it wasn't because they were not spinning/working. I just liked the feel of the smaller pad better.

FWIW I like the CCS pads (in either size) because they have flat edges. Much easier to get up to an edge with them than a curved edge pad.

Next week though I'll be getting my new Flex 3401 from Nick (er: Santa) and it'll be time to break out the 4~5 dozen 6½" pads again.

I can tell ya' one thing, the Rupes Duetto WILL NOT work with the larger pads! That puppy really likes the Rupes pads, plus those pads have a nice defined edge (with their reverse taper) that makes them get up to an edge as good as (if not better) than the CCS pads. Although, the Duetto works great with any 5½" pad. :xyxthumbs:

One thing it does do (well all the Rupes machines actually) is HOLD ON TO THE PADS like they've been WELDED onto the backing plate. Getting the foam pads off the backing plate you need to be careful. But OMG.... if you are working with one of the Rupes microfiber pads... you need to first let it cool for a while, then second, be very very VERY careful, working around the edge, perhaps even taking the back of a small brush handle, or a plastic scraper/credit card and stuffing it between the pad and backing plate while you work your way around it. The microfiber pads have a foam back, (sort of feels like heavy latex foam) that heats up a bit, but more importantly will COMPLETELY rip apart when you are trying to remove the pad from the backing plate.

Nobody will EVER say that Rupes doesn't use the toughest Velcro on the planet!

That's great insight into the Duetto!

I haven't had their microfiber pads get warm on me yet, but I'm running them on a pc. Even on my dynabrade plates, I still remove them carefully. Once I get an edge up, I run my fingers along the plate to separate them.

You're getting your Flex next week, and I should be ordering my Duetto next week! My 3401 is hanging with me and the pc as I type!

I really want to try the 7" Rupes microfiber discs on the 3401.... I can't find them anywhere though...

 

[dlc95]

As far as pads go, I haven't used 6.5" pads at all on my pc. I do see them being used on some of the videos out on youtube. Some companies (Adams) were only using 6.5" pads on the pc. I assume they worked based on their reputation, but for that machine, they're not optimal - as far as I know. Maybe I need to give 6.5's a spin first..

 

[cardaddy]

That's great insight into the Duetto!

I haven't had their microfiber pads get warm on me yet, but I'm running them on a pc. Even on my dynabrade plates, I still remove them carefully. Once I get an edge up, I run my fingers along the plate to separate them.

You're getting your Flex next week, and I should be ordering my Duetto next week! My 3401 is hanging with me and the pc as I type!

I really want to try the 7" Rupes microfiber discs on the 3401.... I can't find them anywhere though...

Oh you'll like that lil' Duetto. Takes a bit of getting used to, and you have to run it pretty much wide open (minimum speed 5) no matter what you're doing with it.

When we first got ours we used it a couple times without the washer mod. Then it seemed as if it wanted to stop rotating too easily. Tried lubricating the shroud/backing plate and that helped a little, (until it needed it again). So I just pulled the plate and put a washer in there. It's a LOT better with the washer. (Although it'll still stop rotating where the GG6 doesn't.):dunno:

Yup, my Flex will be here tomorrow.

I'll unpack it and drool for a while, then take the pads & backing plate kit and put them in that fancy "deluxe" Flex bag, wrap it up, and put it under the tree. It'll be cool Christmas Eve to unwrap it when family is here. My nephew used to detail with a guy here in town (that we both have history with), in fact he brought his new 3 Series down from Clemson during summer break for us to buff.... he'll FLIP OUT over it!

In the interim I've been working on another project.

Found some LED PAR38 5000K bulbs at Lowes this weekend on closeout for only $28 each. Bought all they had!

Been building dual-head mounts with switches in them to mount on the ceiling (at the ends of my fluorescent fixtures). Putting switches on each pair so I can run the fluorescents without them, or turn on as many as I want/need when I need the light. All in all I'm putting up 6 boxes, 1 on each end of 2 fixtures, 1 on only 1 end of 2 more fixtures. Of the four fluorescent fixtures, 4 of the LED heads will have 2 bulbs and 2 more will have 1 each (possibly 2).

For now though I need to find more blubs because I'm wanting 8 minimum (have 7), 10 nominal, with up to 12 maximum.
It's a gonna' get BRIGHT!Im the MAN

 

[dlc95]

Oh you'll like that lil' Duetto. Takes a bit of getting used to, and you have to run it pretty much wide open (minimum speed 5) no matter what you're doing with it.

When we first got ours we used it a couple times without the washer mod. Then it seemed as if it wanted to stop rotating too easily. Tried lubricating the shroud/backing plate and that helped a little, (until it needed it again). So I just pulled the plate and put a washer in there. It's a LOT better with the washer. (Although it'll still stop rotating where the GG6 doesn't.):dunno:

Yup, my Flex will be here tomorrow.

I'll unpack it and drool for a while, then take the pads & backing plate kit and put them in that fancy "deluxe" Flex bag, wrap it up, and put it under the tree. It'll be cool Christmas Eve to unwrap it when family is here. My nephew used to detail with a guy here in town (that we both have history with), in fact he brought his new 3 Series down from Clemson during summer break for us to buff.... he'll FLIP OUT over it!

In the interim I've been working on another project.

Found some LED PAR38 5000K bulbs at Lowes this weekend on closeout for only $28 each. Bought all they had!

Been building dual-head mounts with switches in them to mount on the ceiling (at the ends of my fluorescent fixtures). Putting switches on each pair so I can run the fluorescents without them, or turn on as many as I want/need when I need the light. All in all I'm putting up 6 boxes, 1 on each end of 2 fixtures, 1 on only 1 end of 2 more fixtures. Of the four fluorescent fixtures, 4 of the LED heads will have 2 bulbs and 2 more will have 1 each (possibly 2).

For now though I need to find more blubs because I'm wanting 8 minimum (have 7), 10 nominal, with up to 12 maximum.
It's a gonna' get BRIGHT!Im the MAN

Hmmmm.... How is it compared to the 7424xp?

Can't wait to see pics of the lights!

 

[cardaddy]

Hmmmm.... How is it compared to the 7424xp?

Can't wait to see pics of the lights!

Can't compare it to the 7424, as I've been running the GG6 and the Rupes Duetto. I can assure you, if you have a large vehicle, (like a full size pickup) that the GG6 can spin 6½" pads. Although it's easier to work with if you use 5½" pads, (which is all I use mine with).

The Rupes Duetto will NEVER work with with anything but their 6" pads or LC 5½".

The Flex OTOH is the most powerful beast of it's type. Just unpacked it to look and make sure it worked and it's going to be a bit of a learning curve. Was talking to Kevin (hateswirls) the other day about his new one..... and he said it took a while for him to get used to it. Seemed to be fighting him from the get-go, just didn't want to behave. Then all of a sudden he hit the sweet spot and he said it got so smooth it was crazy. Keep in mind that he works with a rotary all the time. That however is the one thing that can play against you when you start working with the Flex, because the rotary you don't really have to hold flat, in fact you generally DON'T hold it perfectly flat. (At least not when doing heavy cutting.) Where when you work with something like a Rupes you'll REALLY have to hold that puppy flat or the pad will stop oscillating almost immediately. That's really the only secret (if there is one) to the Flex, keeping the pad flat and it'll not walk around on ya'.

Might get to practice on my kid's 4Runner or maybe on my Cadillac the next couple days.

First however, I'm jonesing to get those lights up. Finished building all the boxes. Used a single gang box with dual-flood sockets (one on each end) and a wall switch with an outlet cover. That way when the fluorescents are one I can leave the LED floods off. Then just reach up (with a pole) and flip on the ones I want as I need them.

Did a test of one box tonight in fact. My wife's family was here, 11 of us total and after tearing into a 15 pound prime rib roast we decided to do a family photo around the tree. My family room has a 15' cathedral ceiling with a brick fireplace in the middle, flanked by French doors. Not a ton of light at night, OR to get light you have to turn on the 2 fan lights. Problem with that is they show up right in the photo. So I took the dual-head LED and put it on the other side of the room, behind the sofa and aimed it at the ceiling. Put the camera on a tripod just beside and behind the floods. Then with just a normal flash (not the built-in on the DSLR) from 16' away the shots came out great. :xyxthumbs: (Although the family was complaining the lights were too bright!!!!!) :laughing:

 

[VISITOR]

Hmmmm.... How is it compared to the 7424xp?

you can't compare the flex to the pxcp, two different leagues (video below). heck, the GG6 is a big step up from the PCXP. even with firm/heavy pressure while the pad is flat on the surface, it's still pretty hard to stop it from rotating. in all honesty, the PCXP would be my last choice and i would opt for the HF DA instead, a little more power/torque and at half the price. it's been proven reliable and is very bit as reliable as the PCXP or any other traditional DA for that matter...

Flex XC 3401 VRG vs. Porter Cable 7424

 

[dlc95]

you can't compare the flex to the pxcp, two different leagues (video below). heck, the GG6 is a big step up from the PCXP. even with firm/heavy pressure while the pad is flat on the surface, it's still pretty hard to stop it from rotating. in all honesty, the PCXP would be my last choice and i would opt for the HF DA instead, a little more power/torque and at half the price. it's been proven reliable and is very bit as reliable as the PCXP or any other traditional DA for that matter...

Flex XC 3401 VRG vs. Porter Cable 7424

No, that was in regards to the 7424xp vs the Rupes Duetto.

I have some pics on my profile of the 7424xp battling 1000 grit sanding marks, and doing a pretty good job. I also have the Flex 3401 (in my "random" album). Based on my experience with microfiber on the 7424xp, I'm going to try microfiber on the Flex. I hear it's "grabby", but I can probably get around that to some degree.

 

[allenk4]

Try a foam interface pad with MF and the Flex

 

[dlc95]

Try a foam interface pad with MF and the Flex

I'll have to pick one up. I also finally found a source for the 6/7" Rupes mf pads, which are the ones I like to use. The only ones I've tries anyways.

Thanks for the tip!