Paint Cleanser instruction

[AZpolisher15]

Hey, crew. I applied a coat of ULW a couple weeks ago and decided to top with Collinite 476 to get me through the South Dakota winter. My truck is a 2014 with a really nice surface. I'm pretty informed as far as waxing/sealing goes, but I'm working by hand and have never used a pre-wax cleanser before.

In the spring, I'd really like to try a cleanser to remove my winter wax and prep the surface for whatever I'm going to use next- I'd like to try a menzerna or blackfire sealer for next summer.

My question is this- I've been reading about cleansers and have determined there to be both abrasive, as well as chemical cleaners (correct?). I've also read that some cleaners may temporarily soften a clear coat. Because I'm working by hand, I absolutely don't want to get into that game for fear of finger marks/marring. I'd be ok with a mild abrasive or chemical cleaner, so long as it wouldn't soften the clear. Upon very close inspection, I can see what I believe to be widespread water marks. Not really "spots", but rather irregular blotchy spotting. It's not visible at all unless I really look closely under particular lighting. But I really think I'd benefit from a cleanser.

In my reading on the forum, it's hard to find details about products- like how they actually work (eg. Chemical vs abrasive, etc). I'd be grateful if someone could recommend a cleanser to me that would ensure a finger mark-free finish. An abrasive would be ideal, so long as I wouldn't have to polish after. Or an abrasive/chemical combo? Thanks!

 

[AZpolisher15]

Bump

 

[wing commander]

I am not the person to advise however the answer can be found on Auto Geek Youtube look for Pinnacle Paint Work Cleansing Lotion. Mike Phillips explains the use.

 

[The Guz]

There's a non-abrasive paint cleaner in the blackfire line.

Do you have any polishes?

 

[AZpolisher15]

There's a non-abrasive paint cleaner in the blackfire line.

Do you have any polishes?

Yeah I do have some Ultimate polish. Tried it by hand and it did nothing for me. I don't yet have a DA.

 

[The Guz]

Ultimate polish is a paint cleanser. It has Meguiar's SMAT abrasives in it. You will not get the same results doing things by hand versus doing it by machine.

 

[AZpolisher15]

Ultimate polish is a paint cleanser. It has Meguiar's SMAT abrasives in it. You will not get the same results doing things by hand versus doing it by machine.

I knew it was a polish and contains SMAT abrasives, but I didn't know it was also a cleanser. So some polishes are "just a polish" and some polishes are "a polish and a cleanser"?

Or are you saying that the act of polishing will negate the need for a cleanser? This is true, I agree. But I thought a cleanser was an additional option if you're not going to polish.

Is ultimate polish in the same category as something like pinnacle/Wolfgang cleansing lotion, four star pre-wax cleanser or P21S paintwork cleanser? I thought ultimate polish was a "polish", rather than a "cleanser" like these other products.

 

[dlc95]

When you have an abrasive polish, the very act of abrasive paint will "cleanse" it. Non of the carrier liquid (glaze) is designed to protect, and leaves the paint smooth and clear.

Ultimate Polish is also very versatile. Maybe try it with a microfiber hand applicator, or terry cloth. I can get a lot of milage out of it on a machine as well.

 

[AZpolisher15]

When you have an abrasive polish, the very act of abrasive paint will "cleanse" it. Non of the carrier liquid (glaze) is designed to protect, and leaves the paint smooth and clear.

Ultimate Polish is also very versatile. Maybe try it with a microfiber hand applicator, or terry cloth. I can get a lot of milage out of it on a machine as well.

Yup I tried UP by hand with a microfiber applicator. It didn't do much. I do realize the act of polishing with an abrasive does "cleanse" the paint (SMAT in the case of UP). But that doesn't answer the questions in my last post...

 

[AnthonyGXP]

The blotchy spots in certain lighting is over application of the Collinite 476.......if you didn't apply it SUPER THIN!

 

[AZpolisher15]

The blotchy spots in certain lighting is over application of the Collinite 476.......if you didn't apply it SUPER THIN!

I think know what you're talking about. Ha I've got it in a couple spots on the doors now. I've seen this before with certain waxes. Lighter and darker areas. Isn't this what they refer to as "streaking"? I tried to go as thin as possible. They're a little better now after a second coat.

But that's not the blotchy spots I was talking about before- those were there long before I started using any waxes or sealants. They are more like isolated spots that look like they're from water. I'll see if I can get a pic tomorrow.

 

[AnthonyGXP]

I think know what you're talking about. Ha I've got it in a couple spots on the doors now. I've seen this before with certain waxes. Lighter and darker areas. Isn't this what they refer to as "streaking"? I tried to go as thin as possible. They're a little better now after a second coat.

But that's not the blotchy spots I was talking about before- those were there long before I started using any waxes or sealants. They are more like isolated spots that look like they're from water. I'll see if I can get a pic tomorrow.

I would first try to remove the water spots chemically with a water spot remover, (i.e. Carpro Spotless) if this doesn't work, then I would move on to a mild polish or an abrasive of sorts.

 

[AZpolisher15]

I would first try to remove the water spots chemically with a water spot remover, (i.e. Carpro Spotless) if this doesn't work, then I would move on to a mild polish or an abrasive of sorts.

Thanks

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I knew it was a polish and contains SMAT abrasives, but I didn't know it was also a cleanser. So some polishes are "just a polish" and some polishes are "a polish and a cleanser"?

Or are you saying that the act of polishing will negate the need for a cleanser? This is true, I agree.

The above is accurate. You understand correctly.

But I thought a cleanser was an additional option if you're not going to polish.

A paint cleaner is an Either/Or product.

You either use a paint cleaner to clean the surface of paint from light stains, surface impurities, light oxidation, etc. to prepare it for a non-cleaning wax.

Or you use a polish to clean the surface of paint from light stains, surface impurities, light oxidation AND shallow below surface defects like swirls, scratches and water spots.


There's no need to use both products and using a paint cleaner AFTER using a dedicated polish will not add anything to the appearance of the paint or improve the adhesion of the wax or sealant.

In my book, if I'm going to invest the time to apply one or the other I'll opt for a fine cut or medium cut polish as I'll get all the benefits of a paint cleaner PLUS some below surface defect removal.

As others have stated already though, if you want to remove swirls and scratches out of your car's paint you're really going to need to upgrade to a machine as modern paints are too hard to work effectively by hand.

I teach hand polishing techniques for people that are die-hards but here's the truth. It requires MORE skill to work by hand than it does to use a simple tool like the Porter Cable 7424XP, Griot's Garage 6" DA Polisher or Meguiar's MT300 DA Polisher.

(all three of these are pretty much the same "type" of tool, just different appearances).


Hope that helps...

 

[AZpolisher15]

The above is accurate. You understand correctly.






A paint cleaner is an Either/Or product.

You either use a paint cleaner to clean the surface of paint from light stains, surface impurities, light oxidation, etc. to prepare it for a non-cleaning wax.

Or you use a polish to clean the surface of paint from light stains, surface impurities, light oxidation AND shallow below surface defects like swirls, scratches and water spots.


There's no need to use both products and using a paint cleaner AFTER using a dedicated polish will not add anything to the appearance of the paint or improve the adhesion of the wax or sealant.

In my book, if I'm going to invest the time to apply one or the other I'll opt for a fine cut or medium cut polish as I'll get all the benefits of a paint cleaner PLUS some below surface defect removal.

As others have stated already though, if you want to remove swirls and scratches out of your car's paint you're really going to need to upgrade to a machine as modern paints are too hard to work effectively by hand.

I teach hand polishing techniques for people that are die-hards but here's the truth. It requires MORE skill to work by hand than it does to use a simple tool like the Porter Cable 7424XP, Griot's Garage 6" DA Polisher or Meguiar's MT300 DA Polisher.

(all three of these are pretty much the same "type" of tool, just different appearances).


Hope that helps...

Thanks much, Mike. You've confirmed for me that I'm understanding things correctly. I've watched a ton of your videos and read a lot of your posts, both here and elsewhere. You do an awesome job of keeping things black and white where you can, and clarifying that gray. A tough job when a lot of the audience is in the early learning phase (and dealing with a topic where we are all continuously learning new things). So, you've helped me a ton already even before this post.

I'm excited about getting into DA polishing. For now I'm working by hand (but I'm done trying to correct by hand!). So, I'm on track with polishes/cleansers being an either/or.

I'd really like to try a cleanser in the spring (not a polish). Can you recommend a dedicated cleanser(s) that won't chemically "soften" my clear coat? It was recommended to me to watch out for products such as Four Star cleanser for this reason. Is there a cleanser that will remove old wax deposits by hand (abrasively or chemically) in prep for a new LSP that won't leave me open to this softening effect? I'm also aware of the importance of technique in the process.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks much, Mike. You've confirmed for me that I'm understanding things correctly. I've watched a ton of your videos and read a lot of your posts, both here and elsewhere.

You do an awesome job of keeping things black and white where you can, and clarifying that gray. A tough job when a lot of the audience is in the early learning phase (and dealing with a topic where we are all continuously learning new things). So, you've helped me a ton already even before this post.

Thank you for the credit and kind words, it's much appreciated.

It's one thing to be a detailer and something very different to be a teacher and then there's a lot of difference when it comes to teaching with typed words versus a video or a detailing class. I like the challenge.

I'm excited about getting into DA polishing. For now I'm working by hand (but I'm done trying to correct by hand!). So, I'm on track with polishes/cleansers being an either/or.

Here's an article to inspire you...

It's not that hard...

I'd really like to try a cleanser in the spring (not a polish). Can you recommend a dedicated cleanser(s) that won't chemically "soften" my clear coat? It was recommended to me to watch out for products such as Four Star cleanser for this reason.

The topic you bring up is a non-issue. It's possible at some time, somewhere in this industry there were cutters that worked by chemically softening the paint to enable the abrasives to do their job easier, OLD Meguiar's #2 formula may have been one of these back in the late 1980's and early 1990's but even it has been reformulated and updated and is no longer the product it once was. I have some old/original #2 in my wax collection and back in the day it was one of the best light cutting compounds on the market and one of my personal favorites. That said I never use the new formula product.

The Four Star product is perfectly safe. The Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer is a great light cleaning paint cleaner.

Also just to note... modern clearcoats are very resistant to chemical stains especially by brand name paint care products.

As a rule you should NEVER apply a product to any type of paint and then let it dwell. If you cannot immediately begin working the product over the surface, (for example you get a phone call or there's an emergency), then wipe the product off. That's called a good best practice.

Is there a cleanser that will remove old wax deposits by hand (abrasively or chemically) in prep for a new LSP that won't leave me open to this softening effect? I'm also aware of the importance of technique in the process.

Thanks for your time.

Any brand of paint cleaner and/or fine cut or ultra fine cut polish on the AG store is safe with no worries of chemically softening the paint.

 

[AZpolisher15]

Thank you for the credit and kind words, it's much appreciated.

It's one thing to be a detailer and something very different to be a teacher and then there's a lot of difference when it comes to teaching with typed words versus a video or a detailing class. I like the challenge.





Here's an article to inspire you...

It's not that hard...





The topic you bring up is a non-issue. It's possible at some time, somewhere in this industry there were cutters that worked by chemically softening the paint to enable the abrasives to do their job easier, OLD Meguiar's #2 formula may have been one of these back in the late 1980's and early 1990's but even it has been reformulated and updated and is no longer the product it once was. I have some old/original #2 in my wax collection and back in the day it was one of the best light cutting compounds on the market and one of my personal favorites. That said I never use the new formula product.

The Four Star product is perfectly safe. The Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer is a great light cleaning paint cleaner.

Also just to note... modern clearcoats are very resistant to chemical stains especially by brand name paint care products.

As a rule you should NEVER apply a product to any type of paint and then let it dwell. If you cannot immediately begin working the product over the surface, (for example you get a phone call or there's an emergency), then wipe the product off. That's called a good best practice.





Any brand of paint cleaner and/or fine cut or ultra fine cut polish on the AG store is safe with no worries of chemically softening the paint.

Mike- your ability to do your job as well as you do involves a whole lot more than just detailing! So, thanks again. Your contributions here (and elsewhere) don't go unnoticed and are very much appreciated.

Regarding my post- that's exactly the the info I was looking for. I'm back on track and ready to roll.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike- your ability to do your job as well as you do involves a whole lot more than just detailing! So, thanks again. Your contributions here (and elsewhere) don't go unnoticed and are very much appreciated.

Thank you, much appreciated.

Using a keyboard to explain how to detail cars is as much of an art form as high end paint polishing.

Regarding my post- that's exactly the the info I was looking for.

I'm back on track and ready to roll.

Good to hear..

I have a number of articles to write due to the frequency of which the topics come up in the forum world and an article to explain all about paint cleaners versus polishes is long over due.

 

[99monguse]

The above is accurate. You understand correctly.






A paint cleaner is an Either/Or product.

You either use a paint cleaner to clean the surface of paint from light stains, surface impurities, light oxidation, etc. to prepare it for a non-cleaning wax.

Or you use a polish to clean the surface of paint from light stains, surface impurities, light oxidation AND shallow below surface defects like swirls, scratches and water spots.


There's no need to use both products and using a paint cleaner AFTER using a dedicated polish will not add anything to the appearance of the paint or improve the adhesion of the wax or sealant.

In my book, if I'm going to invest the time to apply one or the other I'll opt for a fine cut or medium cut polish as I'll get all the benefits of a paint cleaner PLUS some below surface defect removal.

As others have stated already though, if you want to remove swirls and scratches out of your car's paint you're really going to need to upgrade to a machine as modern paints are too hard to work effectively by hand.

I teach hand polishing techniques for people that are die-hards but here's the truth. It requires MORE skill to work by hand than it does to use a simple tool like the Porter Cable 7424XP, Griot's Garage 6" DA Polisher or Meguiar's MT300 DA Polisher.

(all three of these are pretty much the same "type" of tool, just different appearances).


Hope that helps...

cleaners are good for those cars that have clear coat levels that are on the low side too.