Paint issue

Calendyr

Calendyr

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Hello Mike,

came across a problem today I have never seen before and want your opinion and advice on it.

So this client called me to fix a scratch on his car. He said a friend of his tried to take it out with compound but did not manage to do it. He also said that he "smudged the paint" trying to remove the scratch.

I asked him several questions trying to assess if the clear coat had been pierced, if he could feel the scratch and all that. He said the CC was not pierced and he could not feel the scratch. So I told him I would most likely be able to remove it.

So today I went there, the smudge he mentioned was an area about 1.5 inch in diameter near the door where the color in the center of the spot was lighter than the edges. The scratch was pretty long going from the door edge to the rear light. The only spot where his friend managed to remove the scratch was in the middle of the lighter colored area. I took some paint thickness reading and in the light area paint was 85 microns thick and near the back of the car the paint was 120 microns thick. Rest of the panel varied from 120 to 140.

So I told the client that his friend took a lot of paint out trying to remove the scratch but I should be able to remove it without piercing the clear. My thinking was that the area where is friend managed to take it out was still 85 microns and there was still clearcoat there, so the rest should come out as well.

So I started to wetsand and noticed that everywhere there was paint pigments in the clear I was removing. This had never happened to me before but I know that for metallic paint and perls and all that they put the flakes in the clearcoat. So I did not make anything of it except taking paint reading during the entire sanding process. I touched the area with thin paint as little as possible.

So after sanding the scratch out, I compounded the panel and the color was not coming back to normal. I did several compound passes with 2 machines, and nothing worked. So now I am trying to figure out why and if it can be fixed.

After thinking about it on the way back, the only thing I can figure is that his friend took out the clearcoat completely and I was working on the tricoat. Unless that car has only a tricoat and no actual clear. Not too sure what manufacturers are doing these days since paint thickness keeps getting thinner and thinner.

Here are some pictures:

http://www.esthetiqueautomontreal.com/paintissue1.jpg

http://www.esthetiqueautomontreal.com/paintissue2.jpg

http://www.esthetiqueautomontreal.com/paintissue3.jpg

When I started the right area near the door was like the whole area is now. Center where I sanded is lighter and is surrounded by a darker area.

I did not charge anything to the customer. I want to know more about this before I decide what to do.

So what the you think the issue is?
Can it be fixed without a repaint?
Do you think my theory about the client's friend removing the clearcoat completely is valid?
What would you do?

Thanks in advance!
 
Ceramic coat the area could.work, but it'd only be a 2-4 year band aid
Def went through the clear
 
nothingface5384 said:
Ceramic coat the area could.work, but it'd only be a 2-4 year band aid
Def went through the clear
Click to expand...

No ceramic coating on the market will repair this. The whole panel needs to be repainted.

Here are some reasons why I would have declined this job:

1. Someone else has already worked on it and could not remove the scratch. This is a red flag that the scratch was potentially quite deep to begin with and would potentially be irreparable through paint correction.

2. Your paint measurements show that the area that has already been "corrected" has ~35-55μm less paint than surrounding areas. Even if you did no more work on the panel it is very likely that the paint would begin to show clear coat failure in the thin areas within the next 1-3 years depending on exposure to UV and weather.

3. The only area where the scratch was "repaired" the clear coat has been totally removed (or "burned" through). By visual inspection alone this clue determines that the only way to fully remove the scratch would be to fully remove the clear coat... which is what it looks like has occurred now.
 
Ouch. I'm afraid this is looking like it could be a rather costly lesson.

I'm with Nicholas. Only a respray will correct this.
 
I had never seen clearcoat burn through look like that. Normally the paint is dull, but in this case it was still very shiny so I figured the discoloration might have been simply overheating of the paint during the compound, and as such could be fixed.

When I could not return the paint to a uniform shade I had strong suspicion that the clear was removed by the customer's friend. But I wanted to get a second opinion. Too bad Mike could not answer but it is the week-end after all.

Will have to give the bad news to the customer tomorrow. I wished I had diagnosed the issue correctly and not was time and product on a panel that needed a repaint. Lesson learned. Actually I think in the future if someone tells me they tried to fix something and did not succeed I will just turn the job down. No time to waste on things like that.
 
Calendyr said:
I had never seen clearcoat burn through look like that. Normally the paint is dull, but in this case it was still very shiny so I figured the discoloration might have been simply overheating of the paint during the compound, and as such could be fixed.

When I could not return the paint to a uniform shade I had strong suspicion that the clear was removed by the customer's friend. But I wanted to get a second opinion. Too bad Mike could not answer but it is the week-end after all.

Will have to give the bad news to the customer tomorrow. I wished I had diagnosed the issue correctly and not was time and product on a panel that needed a repaint. Lesson learned. Actually I think in the future if someone tells me they tried to fix something and did not succeed I will just turn the job down. No time to waste on things like that.
Click to expand...

How did your customer take the news? Did he blame you? Man what a freaking bad situation.
 
Prolly looked a lot better with a scratch in it eh?

WOW! that's pretty bad paint burn IMO. Can't say even as a 12yr old playing around with a rotary on my dads car that did anything like that. I burned off a corner here and there but that looks like he set fire to the paint.

Blows my mind why so many people try and buff a deep scratch out vs filling it and sanding then buffing. Even a deep clear cloat scratch can be filled and then sanded and blended in pretty easily.

IMO that needs a full respray. If you know someone and are close with them I'd say $300 USD no more than $500 USD total if they want to make a few more bucks.
 
Calendyr said:
I had never seen clearcoat burn through look like that. Normally the paint is dull, but in this case it was still very shiny so I figured the discoloration might have been simply overheating of the paint during the compound, and as such could be fixed.

When I could not return the paint to a uniform shade I had strong suspicion that the clear was removed by the customer's friend. But I wanted to get a second opinion. Too bad Mike could not answer but it is the week-end after all.

Will have to give the bad news to the customer tomorrow. I wished I had diagnosed the issue correctly and not was time and product on a panel that needed a repaint. Lesson learned. Actually I think in the future if someone tells me they tried to fix something and did not succeed I will just turn the job down. No time to waste on things like that.
Click to expand...

You mentioned that you informed the customer that his friend had removed quite a bit of paint. Since you saw a difference in the color at that time did you inform him that it may already be through the clear?
 
Of your anywhere near fairfax Virginia I know a great guy who can repaint it for probably the lowest price you'll find. Great results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Calendyr said:
have to give the bad news to the customer tomorrow. I wished I had diagnosed the issue correctly and not was time and product on a panel that needed a repaint. Lesson learned. Actually I think in the future if someone tells me they tried to fix something and did not succeed I will just turn the job down. No time to waste on things like that.
Click to expand...

I hope things went well for you when speaking to the customer.
 
OP as others have said this is toast. I hate to say it but by sanding you made it worse. Take a paint reading to see how much more material was removed. Only a respray will fix this, blend it into the adjacent panels and problem is solved. Cost about $800 depending on location.

So what the you think the issue is? No more clear coat. If you sand or compound paint long enough you will expierence this. Factory clear is very thin.
Can it be fixed without a repaint? No
Do you think my theory about the client's friend removing the clearcoat completely is valid? Hard to say problem is you're the last man standing.

I hope your client doesn't hold you responsible. Best wishes and good luck.
 
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