Paint too thin to polish?

[rover137]

I bought myself a Paint Thickness Gauge (PTG) and have had some interesting results on my 2019 Hyundai. The car is around 2 years old and i have hand polished twice with Megs Ult Polish by hand. I have used a DA twice with a finishing polish as well. Once with Scholls S30+/Orange SDO LC polishing pad and once with Scholls S30+/Black SDO LC finishing pad. Used Scholls S20 in some isolated areas. Paint was in good nick from new and i wouldn't expect these combinations to not remove much. Bought the car new, dealer didn't touch it as requested.

The PTG I bought was the CEM DT 156. It had good reviews and seemed reliable and accurate at +- 3%. I calibrated the gauge before use. Measurements are:

Bonnet: 86 - 120 Microns
Doors: 70 - 122 Microns (bottom edges being the lower readings in the 70s)
Rear: 84 - 105 Microns

This is where it gets confusing. I did the jambs to try estimate the amount of clear.

Jambs: 64 - 94 Microns.

So, either some parts of the car have minimal clear, or the Jambs have decent clear?

Is this too thin to polish. A pro detailer told me you shouldn't polish more than once. I mean we here do it 1-2 times a year. I told him i need to put another Ceramic coat on soon and he said just remove it chemically then put it on. This feels wrong to me. Should i stick to 'glaze/cleaner', or no harm continuing to polish once every 3ish years when the car needs a new coat and to remove light wash marring. I will not correct with anything more aggressive then the above - S30 and a Orange or Black SDO pad.

 

[mbkite]

Poor boys pro polish it’s a chemical cleaner. Use it with a da. Amazing results

 

[rover137]

Poor boys pro polish it’s a chemical cleaner. Use it with a da. Amazing results

This will remove the remnants of a coating and it is ok to ceramic coat after? Are you saying i should opt for a cleaner with these readings?

 

[98CayenneTA]

Measure under the hood also.

A primer and base coat combined will be around 35-60 microns. 100+ microns I consider to be a healthy factory clear.

Light polishing should only remove 1-3 microns
Medium polish 4-7 microns
Heavy 7- 12

 

[rover137]

Yeah they are the figures I’ve come up with in terms of removing microns with different stages of aggressiveness.

Thanks for the suggest for under the hood. Will give that a go!

I guess it is those random 70-80 readings. While they are rare and usually at the edge of the bottom of the doors, they still worry me.


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[98CayenneTA]

Are you measuring right on the edges?

What kind of measurements are you getting a quarter inch to half inch away from the edges?

 

[rover137]

The 70-80 readings are about an inch from the edges of the bottom of the doors it seems. Will get some more readings and do under the hood too!


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[rover137]

Are you measuring right on the edges?

What kind of measurements are you getting a quarter inch to half inch away from the edges?

So i measured under the hood (bonnet) and got 48 - 60 readings. The panel here was all matte like - i assume this is where you meant?

Measured again on edges of the doors, hood etc. Main areas i as getting 70-80 was the bottom of the driver and passenger doors right on the edge as close as i could get. The odd 70ish reading and then i even got one random one in the 60s. There were also some 80-100 readings in other areas on the edges of the doors. Not uniform at all, but that is to be expected i guess.

 

[98CayenneTA]

So i measured under the hood (bonnet) and got 48 - 60 readings. The panel here was all matte like - i assume this is where you meant?

Correct, I measure under the hood because a lot of manufacturers do not clear under the hood.

So your primer and base coat together is around 50 microns.

Subtract 50 microns from your panel measurements and that's about how much clear you have to work with.

Now this me and not necessarily advice but if that was my personal vehicle I would not be afraid to do a light polish over the whole thing.

 

[Tasmania]

Car manufacturers like Mazda are painting car's so thin you will need a full re spray in less thsn 5 year's. But some people these day's 5 year's is a long time to own a car.

We live in a disposable world.

Check out (Car Craft Auto Detailing) on YT and check for the Mazda video with thin paint. Sandro is one of the best detailers in Australia.

 

[psnt1ol]

I bought myself a Paint Thickness Gauge (PTG) and have had some interesting results on my 2019 Hyundai. The car is around 2 years old and i have hand polished twice with Megs Ult Polish by hand. I have used a DA twice with a finishing polish as well. Once with Scholls S30+/Orange SDO LC polishing pad and once with Scholls S30+/Black SDO LC finishing pad. Used Scholls S20 in some isolated areas. Paint was in good nick from new and i wouldn't expect these combinations to not remove much. Bought the car new, dealer didn't touch it as requested.

The PTG I bought was the CEM DT 156. It had good reviews and seemed reliable and accurate at +- 3%. I calibrated the gauge before use. Measurements are:

Bonnet: 86 - 120 Microns
Doors: 70 - 122 Microns (bottom edges being the lower readings in the 70s)
Rear: 84 - 105 Microns

This is where it gets confusing. I did the jambs to try estimate the amount of clear.

Jambs: 64 - 94 Microns.

So, either some parts of the car have minimal clear, or the Jambs have decent clear?

Is this too thin to polish. A pro detailer told me you shouldn't polish more than once. I mean we here do it 1-2 times a year. I told him i need to put another Ceramic coat on soon and he said just remove it chemically then put it on. This feels wrong to me. Should i stick to 'glaze/cleaner', or no harm continuing to polish once every 3ish years when the car needs a new coat and to remove light wash marring. I will not correct with anything more aggressive then the above - S30 and a Orange or Black SDO pad.

Which coating do you have on the vehicle currently? If the surface does not need heavy corrections.. look into a polish/primer then coated it again. There are several manufactures that has a primer polish to go along with their coating (i.e Carpro, Geyon, Blackfire, etc).

This sort of procedure takes very little off the paint. 3 microns at the most so you should be fine.

Paint thickness has been getting less and less in the last few years and it is quite common to get these 90 -100 microns readings on asian imports.

 

[98CayenneTA]

Car manufacturers like Mazda are painting car's so thin you will need a full re spray in less thsn 5 year's. But some people these day's 5 year's is a long time to own a car.

We live in a disposable world.

Check out (Car Craft Auto Detailing) on YT and check for the Mazda video with thin paint. Sandro is one of the best detailers in Australia.

What I have seen and my thoughts are that the primer and base coats are getting a bit thinner and laying much smoother.

The clear coats from my measurements have not really got thinner through the years.

All being around 50 - 75 microns of clear.

I will say if the ops car is factory paint and nobody's ever mowed a bunch of clear off in the past that his inconsistency are definitely on the extreme side

 

[rover137]

Correct, I measure under the hood because a lot of manufacturers do not clear under the hood.

So your primer and base coat together is around 50 microns.

Subtract 50 microns from your panel measurements and that's about how much clear you have to work with.

Now this me and not necessarily advice but if that was my personal vehicle I would not be afraid to do a light polish over the whole thing.

This makes me happy and is what i wanted to hear haha my combinations are pretty light. I would be a little worried about some of the lower readings though.

 

[rover137]

Car manufacturers like Mazda are painting car's so thin you will need a full re spray in less thsn 5 year's. But some people these day's 5 year's is a long time to own a car.

We live in a disposable world.

Check out (Car Craft Auto Detailing) on YT and check for the Mazda video with thin paint. Sandro is one of the best detailers in Australia.

Yeah i have been seeing this as well. I think i have watched all of Sandro's vids and maybe some more than once! I can't remember what he did in the one with the Mazda but will have a look again.

Yeah good point, that is why i am going with a different more durable coating. I want to try NV Evo, and maybe by the time that is done i will have traded for another car anyway.

 

[rover137]

Which coating do you have on the vehicle currently? If the surface does not need heavy corrections.. look into a polish/primer then coated it again. There are several manufactures that has a primer polish to go along with their coating (i.e Carpro, Geyon, Blackfire, etc).

This sort of procedure takes very little off the paint. 3 microns at the most so you should be fine.

Paint thickness has been getting less and less in the last few years and it is quite common to get these 90 -100 microns readings on asian imports.

I currently have CarPro Lite on and want to put NV Evo on. This is about a 3 year coating so should last a bit longer hopefully and i have heard good things. I have thought about the primers and if i should use one, but i think S30+ probably cuts a similar amount.. im not too sure.

 

[rover137]

What I have seen and my thoughts are that the primer and base coats are getting a bit thinner and laying much smoother.

The clear coats from my measurements have not really got thinner through the years.

All being around 50 - 75 microns of clear.

I will say if the ops car is factory paint and nobody's ever mowed a bunch of clear off in the past that his inconsistency are definitely on the extreme side

I can't guarantee the manufacturer hasn't done a massive compound after factory paint but the dealer didn't touch the car upon delivery. I've only done a few light polishes like i mentioned in my OP.

You would say these readings are extreme?

 

[98CayenneTA]

You would say these readings are extreme?

Yes, to have a 50 micron swing (.002") on a single panel is quite a bit.

I would call +/- 15 to be more of the norm.

In factory paint I usually see 120 on the high side and 100 - 105 on the light side with American vehicle's.

Foreign vehicle's I usually see 100-105 high side and
80-85 low side.

 

[rover137]

Yes, to have a 50 micron swing (.002") on a single panel is quite a bit.

I would call +/- 15 to be more of the norm.

In factory paint I usually see 120 on the high side and 100 - 105 on the light side with American vehicle's.

Foreign vehicle's I usually see 100-105 high side and
80-85 low side.

Yeah i know, the range concerned me too. I always thought there was some range but it does seem excessive. It is almost like they gave the roof and hood a good spray but then went more light on the doors as the swing is smaller with individual panels than the whole car.

I know that i posted originally with the Hood also having a range of 86- 120 but those readings under 100 were just a few whereas the doors had a huge range with multiple readings. It's weird.

 

[psnt1ol]

I currently have CarPro Lite on and want to put NV Evo on. This is about a 3 year coating so should last a bit longer hopefully and i have heard good things. I have thought about the primers and if i should use one, but i think S30+ probably cuts a similar amount.. im not too sure.

Carpro Lite is not as stout as some of the other consumer coating so it should be easily removed with a light polish. Beyond polishing, One of the benefit of the primer is to prep the surface for a better adhesion of the coating plus it would save you a step since you can go right to the coating application.. Carpro essence is such a product if you want to follow up with a Carpro coating like CQUK or SIC. I dont have any experience with NV EVO so I really cant make any comments on it. Geyon and Blackfire also has primer polish for their coating and they work the same way.

BTW ... coating manufacturers durability claims are made under the perfect environmental condition. None of us lives in the "perfect condition". LOL... so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[rover137]

Carpro Lite is not as stout as some of the other consumer coating so it should be easily removed with a light polish. Beyond polishing, One of the benefit of the primer is to prep the surface for a better adhesion of the coating plus it would save you a step since you can go right to the coating application.. Carpro essence is such a product if you want to follow up with a Carpro coating like CQUK or SIC. I dont have any experience with NV EVO so I really cant make any comments on it. Geyon and Blackfire also has primer polish for their coating and they work the same way.

BTW ... coating manufacturers durability claims are made under the perfect environmental condition. None of us lives in the "perfect condition". LOL... so take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah i suspect Lite will be removed with a finishing polish. I will also foam and wash with a strip wash as well which should knock it down a bit. I think i have seen people use Essence before Nova Evo, not too sure. I would still do a panel wipe as that seems like a contentious area so i would probably just play it safe.

Would a coating being removed with a primer? For e.g if i just used Essence before Nova would it remove Lite?

Yeah true. Although, i think i will get more out of Lite than it's claim. It has already been 8 months and looks and performs like day one. Mind you during lockdown my car sat in a garage for a few months!