Perfecting my Car: Wetsanding to Remove Orange Peel, and Wheel Repair

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BMW530iE39

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Hello Autogeek,

I want to do my very first wetsand on my own car, before I eventually branch off and do it for others occasionally. Now I have done some research, but before I take the plunge I ask for your advice and experience before I embark on this task.

Background:

About two months ago I bought a Griot's Garage Dual Action Polisher, and I wanted to remove the light swirls from my 01' e39 BMW 530i. I love this car so much, it's perfect for a college student, sporty and very practical. Anyway, the polish and pad I used was the Meguiars Soft Buff Pads, a Red Cutting Pad, and then a Black Finishing Pad, with Meguairs Ultra Cut Compound (Heavy) and then Meguairs Ultra Finishing Compound (Light). I made about two passes of each pad and compound and I was only able to remove about 70%-80% of the swirls. It looks much better, but the swirls are still there. I was very disheartened, and I said I would come back and use a Microfiber Cutting Pad and see if I can get the rest out, but with the amount of time that would need, I figured it might be better to set aside a weekend, and remove the orange peel as well. From other's I have found out that BMW paint from this era is very hard, so you need some cutting power to really perfect it.

What I want to accomplish:

I want to bring the paint into flawless territory. I want to remove all of the orange peel, touch up one or two spots, and then polish to a perfect finish. Also the wheels (BBS Style 42's) seem to have metal corrosion that has eaten through the clear coat, and it looks rather terrible. I wonder if that is even worth fixing on my own or if it makes more sense to have it done by a professional.

Tools I have on hand:

Griot's Garage Polisher (6 inch)
Meguairs Ultra Cut Compound
Meguairs Ultra Finish Compound.
Meguairs Soft Buff Red (Cutting)
Meguairs Soft Buff Yellow (Med Finishing)
Meguairs Soft Buff Black (Finishing)

Tools I think I will need:

Meguairs Microfiber Cutting Pads (For removing Wet Sanding Marks)
Meguairs Unigrit Sandpaper 3000 Grit 6 inch (For machine orange peel removal)
Possibly a different type of polish for the microfiber pad?

Longevity of the Paint:

Now this car is a Daily Driver, does removing the orange peel make sense? I know it will look amazing, and I would love that, but would I be compromising the UV protection of the paint, or would I just be removing too much clear coat? I think because this is a very hard paint, and by using a light sand paper, and taking my time I would not be doing too much damage.

Finally, thank you for reading this post, I really do appreciate your advice, as it will be invaluable in perfecting my finish.
 
Before you go wetsanding, I would suggest you haven't exhausted the lesser aggressive methods at your disposal. I would take a shot with the MF pads starting with the ultra finish compound.
 
wdmaccord said:
Before you go wetsanding, I would suggest you haven't exhausted the lesser aggressive methods at your disposal. I would take a shot with the MF pads starting with the ultra finish compound.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of doing that, but I had a couple of dents removed, and they wet sanded and you can clearly see larger sections of flat paint and it looks very odd with the orange peel. Is there a way I can remove orange peel without wet sanding?
 
BMW530iE39 said:
I was thinking of doing that, but I had a couple of dents removed, and they wet sanded and you can clearly see larger sections of flat paint and it looks very odd with the orange peel. Is there a way I can remove orange peel without wet sanding?
Click to expand...

Take a look at the CarPro Denim Orange Peel removal pads.
I used it on one of our vehicles and got great results.
CarPro Orange Peel Denim Pads - First use

No need to wet sand with these.

If you are using factory paint I suggest:
CarPro Velvet Orange Peel Removal Pad

If it is a repaint:
CarPro Denim Orange Peel Removal Pad
 
Before you wetsand your BMW...

Does it have the factory clearcoat?


If so... read through this article....


Wetsanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint



Then find a 3M Post-it Note and feel it between your thumb and index finger like this,


Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive


The factory sprayed clear layer of paint on most new cars averages around 2 mils. That's thinner than the average post-it note.

Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_01.jpg




The next time you see a post-it note... feel it between your fingers... this is usually all it takes to drive home the point as to how thin the paint is on your beautiful, shiny car.

Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_02.jpg



:)
 
Ouch, this really opens up my eyes to how little there is on a Factory Finish. I think I am going to get away from wet sanding, I'll probably ruin it, and later on if I get a scratch or swirl, I won't be able to correct it.

The CarPro Velvet pad seems like a good choice as it should remove very little clear, and remove most of the orange peel, which should blend nicely with the flat spots from the dent removal. Would the Meguairs Ultra Cut Compound be suificant for this job? Or should I use something more specialized? Finally after using the Velvet Pad should I then use a finishing polish on a finishing foam pad to really perfect the finish?

Thanks again for all of your help guys!
 
Wet sanding your only car that's a daily driver with factory paint - prolly isn't the best idea. The car is old at this point - much of the UV inhibitors in the clear coat are probably spent.

WS can only make the clear coat thinner - likely by a significant degree if you are not experienced in it. A lot of wet sand projects are on cars that have been repainted - where the paint is much thicker (and the orange peel much worse) then factory paint.

It's your car - but I'd advise against it. If the paint is polished/corrected to a high degree - the car will look awesome.

The risks are clear coat failure at an accelerated rate from cutting it too thin and burning through the paint while sanding. Most experienced pros wouldn't accept a job like this on a car like this.

I'd spend your efforts on getting your wheels refurbished and polishing the paint to a high degree of clarity.
 
swanicyouth said:
Wet sanding your only car that's a daily driver with factory paint - prolly isn't the best idea. The car is old at this point - much of the UV inhibitors in the clear coat are probably spent.

WS can only make the clear coat thinner - likely by a significant degree if you are not experienced in it. A lot of wet sand projects are on cars that have been repainted - where the paint is much thicker (and the orange peel much worse) then factory paint.

It's your car - but I'd advise against it. If the paint is polished/corrected to a high degree - the car will look awesome.

The risks are clear coat failure at an accelerated rate from cutting it too thin and burning through the paint while sanding. Most experienced pros wouldn't accept a job like this on a car like this.

I'd spend your efforts on getting your wheels refurbished and polishing the paint to a high degree of clarity.
Click to expand...

Do you think that using the CarPro Velvet pad would be appropriate for a job like this? If that's too aggressive, just a MF pad, and some good polish is what I should strive for?
 
BMW530iE39 said:
Hello Autogeek,

I want to do my very first wetsand on my own car, before I eventually branch off and do it for others occasionally. Now I have done some research, but before I take the plunge I ask for your advice and experience before I embark on this task.

Background:

About two months ago I bought a Griot's Garage Dual Action Polisher, and I wanted to remove the light swirls from my 01' e39 BMW 530i. I love this car so much, it's perfect for a college student, sporty and very practical. Anyway, the polish and pad I used was the Meguiars Soft Buff Pads, a Red Cutting Pad, and then a Black Finishing Pad, with Meguairs Ultra Cut Compound (Heavy) and then Meguairs Ultra Finishing Compound (Light). I made about two passes of each pad and compound and I was only able to remove about 70%-80% of the swirls. It looks much better, but the swirls are still there. I was very disheartened, and I said I would come back and use a Microfiber Cutting Pad and see if I can get the rest out, but with the amount of time that would need, I figured it might be better to set aside a weekend, and remove the orange peel as well. From other's I have found out that BMW paint from this era is very hard, so you need some cutting power to really perfect it.

What I want to accomplish:

I want to bring the paint into flawless territory. I want to remove all of the orange peel, touch up one or two spots, and then polish to a perfect finish. Also the wheels (BBS Style 42's) seem to have metal corrosion that has eaten through the clear coat, and it looks rather terrible. I wonder if that is even worth fixing on my own or if it makes more sense to have it done by a professional.

Tools I have on hand:

Griot's Garage Polisher (6 inch)
Meguairs Ultra Cut Compound
Meguairs Ultra Finish Compound.
Meguairs Soft Buff Red (Cutting)
Meguairs Soft Buff Yellow (Med Finishing)
Meguairs Soft Buff Black (Finishing)

Tools I think I will need:

Meguairs Microfiber Cutting Pads (For removing Wet Sanding Marks)
Meguairs Unigrit Sandpaper 3000 Grit 6 inch (For machine orange peel removal)
Possibly a different type of polish for the microfiber pad?

Longevity of the Paint:

Now this car is a Daily Driver, does removing the orange peel make sense? I know it will look amazing, and I would love that, but would I be compromising the UV protection of the paint, or would I just be removing too much clear coat? I think because this is a very hard paint, and by using a light sand paper, and taking my time I would not be doing too much damage.

Finally, thank you for reading this post, I really do appreciate your advice, as it will be invaluable in perfecting my finish.
Click to expand...


Read up on doing a "Test Spot".

Two passes with M105 is not a lot. I would suggest at least 4 passes with M105, then evaluate your work and determine if you need more work before progressing to the polishing stage. Be aware that there are more variables, such as downward pressure on the polisher, how fast you are moving the polisher across the surface of the paint, how big of an area you are working at a time, etc.


If you are dead set on machine sanding to remove OP. You should be using Trizact or Unigrit 1500 Sanding papers with a Meguiar's Foam Interface Pad. The 3000 grit are not nearly as effective at knocking down the peaks in the peel. You should also consider purchasing 3" papers as well. make sure you have the appropriate backing plate, as the 3M papers are matched to the 3M BP's (AGO sells them).

The $159 that you spend on a paint thickness gauge now, may save you hundreds later. As Mike P explained, CC is thinner than you think and it will bite your...


I had a good experience with the CarPro Denim Pads paired with M100 on my FLEX 3401 for OP removal on OEM paint. They do not produce "laser flat" paint, but pretty close and IMO they are safer. It does take longer than damp sanding. The Denim pads will cause marring of the paint, so obviously do the OP removal before Compounding and Polishing. I was able to remove this marring with Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover on a White Lake Country CCS Pad


The Meguiar's DAMF pads are excellent and paired with Meguiar's D300, they really cut and finish very well on a lot of paints.


Good Luck and take lots of pictures including close-ups
 
BMW530iE39 said:
Do you think that using the CarPro Velvet pad would be appropriate for a job like this? If that's too aggressive, just a MF pad, and some good polish is what I should strive for?
Click to expand...


From what I have read, the CarPro Velvet will not remove OP when used with a DA.

I only have experience with the Denim
 
I'd reset back to my first comment of trying a couple combos with the MF pad and the compounds you have on hand on the areas that have been repainted. Might surprise you. If it were me, I wouldn't spend more money or try more aggressive methods until after I took a shot with the MF pads. Maybe take some before and after photos so you can really see the difference. If that doesn't work, then think about the CP Velvet step. Again, just my 2 cents and how I would approach it if I had the materials you have on hand. :xyxthumbs:
 
Actually, post some pictures now

I'm interested to see how bad the OP actually is
 
BMW530iE39 said:
Do you think that using the CarPro Velvet pad would be appropriate for a job like this? If that's too aggressive, just a MF pad, and some good polish is what I should strive for?
Click to expand...

I've never used those pads. But, if I was interested in using those or aggressive compounding - I'd definitely get my hands on a paint thickness gauge so you have an idea of how much clear coat each panel has on it to work with.

I've never seen a BMW with terrible OP from the factory. Yes, they have OP...But it's not terrible. If you have repainted panels - you'll have to assess each one.

On tip is like to give you is you may be best served avoiding Meg's foam pads. Reason being is, I believe they only come in 6.5". I think defect removal on a GG6 is best done with 5.5" pads. You will need a new BP as well.

I'm pretty confident you could remove your swirls with some Optimum Compound or Menzerna FG 400, good technique, and 5.5" cutting foam pads.

allenk4 said:
A DA with MF pads and compound is not a good choice for removing OP.
Click to expand...


Quoting the thread below me... I agree.
 
wdmaccord said:
I'd reset back to my first comment of trying a couple combos with the MF pad and the compounds you have on hand on the areas that have been repainted. Might surprise you. If it were me, I wouldn't spend more money or try more aggressive methods until after I took a shot with the MF pads. Maybe take some before and after photos so you can really see the difference. If that doesn't work, then think about the CP Velvet step. Again, just my 2 cents and how I would approach it if I had the materials you have on hand. :xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...

A DA with MF pads and compound is not a good choice for removing OP.
 
I attached some pictures below, maybe I was just overthinking this entire thing. I'm sorry for wasting your time, I have just become OCD over my car, have a lot of personal issues in life, and having my car perfect gives me pride, frankly it gives me something to get out of bed for. Anyway...

I think then a very deep polish will work best then. So the Menzerna FG 400 and a LC 5.5? Would that be my only step, or should I follow up with something like a Wolfgang's Finishing Glaze and a LC Foam Pad? Thanks again guys for all your help, I could have ruined my paint!
 
Orange Peel questions...

1 - Is it just the clear coat that lays on the surface as OP?

2 - Can factory paint color start as OP then level clear coat follow the contour of that surface?

Thanks, Rick
 
frankly it gives me something to get out of bed for
Click to expand...

If you go through your clear coat it will be a lot harder to get out bed. OEM clear is so thin at 2 mils. When I do a paint job I put on about 8-10 mils of clear. You can wet sand that to your hearts content and not go through the clear.
 
Make that 4-6 mils. I don't know what I was thinking. Must have been an air bubble in the brain.
 
3000 will not get rid of orange peel. Take a look at AmmoNYC's videos with Meguiars. They talk about the reason for the 3000 and then going lower. 1500 can level out orange peel, but just as others have said, because it is factory paint, it is thin. I have damp sanded using the 3M Trizact system and I only went down to 3000 to level out the massive amount of swirls and light scratches. It did not get rid of heavy scratches or any OP that was in the paint.

I agree with others, just polish the paint out nice, coat it and love it.

HUMP
 
allenk4 said:
A DA with MF pads and compound is not a good choice for removing OP.
Click to expand...

It was never suggested that this combo would "remove" OP. First, there were no photos to go off of and the original post discussed some wetsanding marks that appeared dull. That all being said, and again with no pics, I didn't see any reason to suggest anything other then the next aggressive step before going on to OP removal pads and/or wetsanding when it could have just been some remaining dull spots from sanding during dent removal.

Now looking at the pics, I'm not even sure I see any orange peel. Hard to tell with the white paint in those pics though.
 
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