You could be right. You could also say they have that warranty because they know it's hit or miss with defective products and they have more hits than misses or maybe their profit margin on it is large enough to carry the misses or maybe the warranty is vague enough to give them an easy out when they determine if it's a defect or user caused damage. Seems to me from my limited research on this subject that they have a wide base of happy customers in a category that fits the description for my needs. I'm not in the professional detail business nor do I need to have the best of the best of everything. I do very little detail work on just my own stuff. If this product does not work or is something I consider to be junk I will simply move on. I don't believe there is a product on the market that is immune to defects or positive and negative personal experiences and feedback. I think you first need to define your own needs then do some research to find a product that best meets those needs. I am one of those people that likes that warm and fuzzy feeling I get from those sometimes useless warranties. I have had some very good experiences with them so I'm not ready to rock the boat. I'm positive there are better machines out there but I liked the design of the Griots and they seem to stand behind their products. We will see I guess.
Piece of Junk
- Thread starter PeTrol42
- Start date
You could be right. You could also say they have that warranty because they know it's hit or miss with defective products and they have more hits than misses or maybe their profit margin on it is large enough to carry the misses or maybe the warranty is vague enough to give them an easy out when they determine if it's a defect or user caused damage. Seems to me from my limited research on this subject that they have a wide base of happy customers in a category that fits the description for my needs. I'm not in the professional detail business nor do I need to have the best of the best of everything. I do very little detail work on just my own stuff. If this product does not work or is something I consider to be junk I will simply move on. I don't believe there is a product on the market that is immune to defects or positive and negative personal experiences and feedback. I think you first need to define your own needs then do some research to find a product that best meets those needs. I am one of those people that likes that warm and fuzzy feeling I get from those sometimes useless warranties. I have had some very good experiences with them so I'm not ready to rock the boat. I'm positive there are better machines out there but I liked the design of the Griots and they seem to stand behind their products. We will see I guess.
Mike Phillips
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For the hundreds of thousands of old and new PC's sold and tortured, when you read a thread like this one about a PC breaking, it's clearly the exception, not the rule.
I've been using and teaching others how to use the PC as long and probably longer than anyone online or offline and I would not hesitate to purchase one today. The build quality is high and the have the longest time-proven history of reliability.
You read threads like this about a PC that broke, what you don't read are the thousand of threads about PC's that don't break because those customers don't post threads about how happy they are, they simply put their PC away after use and continue on with life.
:dunno:
I've been using and teaching others how to use the PC as long and probably longer than anyone online or offline and I would not hesitate to purchase one today. The build quality is high and the have the longest time-proven history of reliability.
You read threads like this about a PC that broke, what you don't read are the thousand of threads about PC's that don't break because those customers don't post threads about how happy they are, they simply put their PC away after use and continue on with life.
:dunno:
Just guessin' here...Maybe when the first edition of the 7424 came out it WAS solid, and with the new XP' it became 'hollow'. Hence, the new hollow part became the standard. Therefore, the solid part just ain't out there.
We need someone with a non-XP to open theirs' up and take a peek...
Bill
BobbyG
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So this was NOT the newer XP version......
It's quite possible and could be a very quick and easy test...
Remove the backing plate and pear in the threaded hole and see if the tap drill for a 5/16-24, (.272 diameter) either bottoms out or goes through the entire piece. I wish I knew the inside diameter of the bearing and the outside diameter of the threaded spindle...hint, hint anyone with a broken piece could measure these with a vernier...
Does the counterweight act as the retainer for the spindle and bearing assembly?
TomG
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They wanted it back because only one part "went bad" and caused the failure. They will replace the part and sell if for 20% less than original retail as a "refurbished" DA. They actually make money on the failures too. They don't do R&D on failed products from the consumer because they don't know exactly what conditions it failed under. Without knowing the conditions it failed under, they can't re-engineer a better product. It doesn't make fiscal sense to "re-engineer" based on every consumer product failure.
tuscarora dave
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- Aug 21, 2009
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I've been around long enough to realize that the PC can be a great tool that has produced millions of defect free paint finishes. I've also been around long enough to see the threads where the PC spindles have broken off, the Griot's Garage 6" ROP just completely fall apart spewing grease all over the poster's detailing project or two different GG polishers from the same lot perform so differently that the poster had to send them back to AG. I've seen numerous threads where the G110V2 cords failed.
I haven't seen a thread where the Cyclos or the Flex 3401 VRGs have failed. My comment above was just a suggestion that if the OP was disappointed with one of the comparable 3 DA polishers what would make him think that the other two are any better.
Setec Astronomy
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Looking at my G100 vintage 2004, the shaft is hollow (tap drill all the way through), the bearing is a 6001RS (12x28x8mm wide). The counterweight does slightly overhang the outer race, so it could act as a retainer, but my bearing is seated and has clearance (about 1/16") to the counterweight. I didn't look at my PC which is maybe a year newer than my G100.
Mike Phillips
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Thanks Mike for looking into this.
Interesting that the old PC has a hollow shaft?
It's already thin in diameter as it is. Of course, keep in mind when these tools were introduced to the market it was as wood sanders not paint polishers. Huge difference between rotating and oscillating a thick foam pad compared to a thin disc of sandpaper.
Enter the Porter Cable DA Sander
That's right, I said sander! The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander is the tool that became the Tipping Point that was the driving force behind the average person switching from working by hand to working by machine.
The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander with Wood Dust Collecting Attachment for Sanding Wood
Sanding the old finish off using a Porter Cable Dual Action Sander
I've posted this before and here goes again...
I think Porter Cable is missing the boat, that is they could assign an engineer or even a Public Relations person to do some research on forums like this one to learn where they need improving and what the competition is up to but they don't.
Too big to fail, too big to care?
Mike, do let us know if you find out the shaft is hollow on your newer version if dig into it.
Nappers
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- Jun 16, 2009
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When I aquired my G100 (labeled a PC 7336) and I have had no problems with it. Not to undermine the OP's thread. That's a bummer and if you were on paint, that could have been very bad.
Don't give up on them. Maybe you can get the part and install it. Some Ace hardwares are PC repair shops if memory serves.
The XP, Griots would be my choice for a new one.
My G100 was money well spent.....
Actually I won it on Meguiar's Online giveaway!! Remember Mike? I was very excited that day.
Don't give up on them. Maybe you can get the part and install it. Some Ace hardwares are PC repair shops if memory serves.
The XP, Griots would be my choice for a new one.
My G100 was money well spent.....
Actually I won it on Meguiar's Online giveaway!! Remember Mike? I was very excited that day.
Setec Astronomy
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I'm not arguing with your premise, Dave, about those 3 DA's being less reliable than a Cyclo or Flex, but there were a spate of problems with the Flex initially, some of them having to do with the plastic backing plate rubbing against the felt ring in the housing and overheating and melting (I think Mike Phillips had an article about lubing it with some air tool oil), and there was some problem with no grease in the right-angle drive, I can't remember what the symptom was, whether is was noise or overheating, but people took the backing plate off and there was no grease in the gears.
Haven't really heard anything further on those issues after the first couple of months, so I guess they resolved themselves.
BobbyG
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rops:Mike Phillips
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Yes. I never forget anything detailing related.
Here,
Lubricating the Felt Ring on the Flex 3401
And in this video,
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn_kVH3BVc&hd=1&t=1m40s]In depth Look at the FLEX 3401 Polisher - YouTube[/video]
tuscarora dave
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- Aug 21, 2009
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I'm not here to argue either Mike. :grouphug:
I remember those threads where people thought there should be grease on the plastic gears above the backing plate. All I know is that neither of my 3401's have had any oil or grease applied to them since new and the problem never arose. Both my 3401's have been pushed as hard as a polisher can be pushed.
I believe those threads were in reaction to how hot the aluminum gear cover got on the 3401VRG. It was new to the market and people weren't used to a polisher with an aluminum gear cover that was designed to dissipate the heat related to the action of the gears that it contained. I believed they panicked about the heat, took the backing plate off and thought, "Geez, no grease on the gears." and took it upon themselves to grease up the gears. Then came the smoke...It seems I remember some people lubing up those gears that were designed to need no grease and that's where the smoke was likely coming from. I think the problem went away because people realized that the gears aren't to be greased and they stopped greasing them.
Is This thread really going anywhere anyway? Just posting my thoughts and opinions like everyone else is.
Mike Phillips
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That's funny, I've never read or heard of anyone greasing the gears?
All I've ever done is apply a few drops of oil to the felt ring to lubricate it where it comes into contact with the hard plastic backing plate under pressure.
I spoke with Bob Eichelberg about this topic and he states it's a non-issue. My opinion is that I don't think it hurts anything to lubricate the felt ring and at least in my experience it does help to reduce the friction between plastic rotating against felt.
Here's what I'm talking about, I've NEVER added oil or grease to the actual gears.
Lubricating the Felt Ring on the Flex 3401
First there is no official recommendation from Flex on this procedure but most owners of the Flex 3401 like to lubricate the Felt Ring to ensure there are no issues between it and the hard plastic backing material that it comes into contact with during operation.
For preventative maintenance reasons, it's okay to lubricate the felt ring after purchase and periodically depending upon how much use your Flex 3401 sees.
What to use?I went to NAPA and purchased some Air Tool Lubricant, (see picture), but any light machine oil should work including the traditional 3-in-1 Oil.
Here's the felt ring on the Flex 3401
Here I've placed some oil on my finger ...
and then spread it onto the felt ring...
You can see the oil penetrate into the felt to lubricate it and from here it will migrate through the felt...
You could also place some drops around the felt ring and then spread it and work it in using your finger...
This brand new Flex 3401 is ready to go to work for a new project next week...
Of course,
YMMV
(Your mileage may vary)
:xyxthumbs:
Setec Astronomy
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- Aug 31, 2010
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I don't remember anyone greasing the plastic gears, I was referring to the edge of the backing plate rubbing the felt ring, as Mike Phillips just linked to. I think I was on a different forum then and the gear/grease issue was in the metal gears in the right-angle drive portion, I'm not sure how much disassmbly was required to get down to them. Whatever was going on with those early Flex's doesn't seem to be going on anymore.
BobbyG
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Hey Johny,
Pad Sizes
The Porter Cable 7424 style dual action polisher should come standard with 5 1/2 inch pads and corresponding backing plate. All of the Porter Cable’s I’ve seen even indicates this on the counterweight, note Use 5 inch Pad Only...…
Setec Astronomy
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Hollow isn't really the right word, it's simply tapped all the way thru. I did check my PC, which is probably from 2005 (vs. my G100 from 2004), and it was the same.
These companies get so big that they have no interest in "niche" markets. That's what I would call the UDM or G110 markets, but to Black & Decker or whatever the corporate parent is, a "niche" is probably a million units a year.
Without getting too far up on the soapbox, while some would argue that those companies getting so big creates an opportunity for true niche marketers, I could also argue that the regulatory environment makes it increasingly difficult for new or small companies to compete. Back in the old days, those small companies would be considered "special interests" and would lobby congress for legislation to help them, but today the "special interests" seem to be the ones with the most money, which is big business.
Setec Astronomy
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Before this gets out of hand, I went and looked at another forum I used to spend time on, to refresh my memory about the "gear" problem. Turns out I wasn't remembering it quite right, it was a shaft breakage issue from late 2008. I'll cut and paste because I don't want to link to the other forum:
"I just finished this repair to my Flex yesterday! What has happened is at the bottom of the well that the shaft goes in, is a small needle bearing cage that is not lubed from the factory. That fails and over heats the shaft weakening the inner snap ring, once that loses its spring tension the shaft will come out or seizes up. any flex user, if your metal housing is get HOT while using, you have the same problem!!! ( it will get warm ) the parts cost about $60 with shipping and it takes about 30 min to do the repair. Be sure and lube the needle bearings before reassembling with a synthetic grease ( green grease works great ) If I have this problem again I'm going to replace the needle bearing with a bronze bushing like every other buffer or polisher I've ever worked on."
And another poster:
"I heard back from them [the distributor] today, he said just what [the first poster] said. The needle bearing was replaced and lubed and they are sending it back out. My warranty was up 2 months ago but they are doing it under warranty anyway."
So it seems this was an early build issue that was corrected.