Pinnacle Souveran vs. P21S
- Thread starter ynkjeter
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DS Detailer
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- Mar 23, 2006
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I hated P21s. Infact, i hated it so much i gave it away. PS is way way better. Infact. It's amazing.
ScottB
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- Mar 3, 2006
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P21S offers a high beeswax count in their wax, thus it beads well but doesnt do a darn thing for paint protection itself. Pinnacle Souveran and Sig Series for that matter offer better depth and wetness. They look surprisingly better. I would probably side with P21S in durability (length of protection) as maybe one extra week.
Pinnacle is the easiest of waxes to remove. It is WOWO .... you dont allow it to formally dry.
Pinnacle is the easiest of waxes to remove. It is WOWO .... you dont allow it to formally dry.
MikeyC
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- Mar 7, 2006
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I have a jar of P21S and I haven't used it in forever. I'm just not very impressed by it. I've used Souveran in the past and it's a much better wax. If you're put off by the price of Souveran then I would consider the Poorboy's Natty's Blue wax or Detailer's Pride Max Wax. The Max Wax is normally $30 but is about 50% off right now on sale. So, now's a good time to try Max Wax.
Personally, I think Max Wax is a hidden gem. I don't know too many people using it, but I think that's mainly because no one knows how good it is. Natty's Blue is EXTREMELY popular on the other hand, but I've yet to try it myself.
Personally, I think Max Wax is a hidden gem. I don't know too many people using it, but I think that's mainly because no one knows how good it is. Natty's Blue is EXTREMELY popular on the other hand, but I've yet to try it myself.
abrcrombe
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- Mar 6, 2006
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:iagree:
Most people, including myself are a little turned off by the price of Souveran. 70 bucks seems like a lot, but I have been assured, it is WELL worth it. AG just had a sale on it, but now it is back to regular price. If you search, you can find it cheaper, or if you are too lazy, then PM me and I will help you out. I love Natty's Blue, works great and Max Wax is a STEAL right now at 15 bucks!!
Most people, including myself are a little turned off by the price of Souveran. 70 bucks seems like a lot, but I have been assured, it is WELL worth it. AG just had a sale on it, but now it is back to regular price. If you search, you can find it cheaper, or if you are too lazy, then PM me and I will help you out. I love Natty's Blue, works great and Max Wax is a STEAL right now at 15 bucks!!
snomon1017
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- Mar 6, 2006
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killrwheels@autogeek said:
I like what killr said in another string somewhere: "I sleep better knowing Souveran is in my garage" or something like that. I couldn't agree more. As for the price, just think about the investment you have in your car. Is $70 really that much in relation to the thousands you spent on the car? To get the best look possible (and by a wide margin), I would consider $70 cheap! Eapecially given Souveran's ease of use and the dozens of cars you can do with one jar. My vehicle(s) is worth it. Why short-change your investment to save a few dollars on cheaper wax? The saving is practically negligible. It's no no-brainer.
MikeyC
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- Mar 7, 2006
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:iagree: in the big picture what difference does $30-$40 make? I doubt you'll lose your home over it. I think the problem most people have with spending so much is about perceived value. It involves utility and other buzz words I learned in econ 101. I just think people have a hard time wrapping their head around the fact that "it's worth it." To some, it may never be worth it because they don't care about how shiney their car is, but I'm sure those people wouldn't be posting here. 
miked2
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- Jun 5, 2006
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I had done a complete clay->Meg's DC2 polish->Klasse SG routine two months back. The car was in pretty good shape, so I didn't even wash it -- just DP waterless autowash on the front and the back and the lower side panels, followed by Meg's Nxt speed detailer all over. Then #26.
I'm in the minority that I haven't been overly impressed with Klasse SG. I feel that it gives more of a muted gloss, and wasn't as good in this respect as Meg's Gold Class wax, which I've used in the past. That said, I didn't prep with Klasse AIO. I'm now very happy after having topped with #26 . . . !
GearHead_1
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- Mar 3, 2006
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Souveran is my Carnauba of choice. I also use P21S and think it's a great wax. I have to question this statement however. Since the content percentages aren't listed on the container how do you know how much Bees wax is in P21S? For that matter how do I know it isn't in Pinnacle since it isn't listed on the container or in the instructions? I thought most waxes had some Bees wax in them. Pinnacle goes a long way to not tell us the percentage of carnauba in its wax. I'm not calling you out, I just want to know where this information can be found.killrwheels@autogeek said:
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ScottB
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- Mar 3, 2006
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GearHead_1 said:
you can actually look up and receive the MSDS on most products, including waxes. I not saying beeswax is NOT used in Pinnacle (its a secret family recipe so I dont know) but it is not used anywhere to near the same extend.
I know because of the difference in beading. If you look at the back of all those wash/wax/sprayon deals released over the last several years you will see that Beeswax is the main ingredient. Remember almost everyone associates protection with beading, even though it has been found to only one indicator.
What is known is Beeswax and Montan wax are not the real protection in car or finish care, its the carnuaba content. But remember all those waxes offering 70% carnuaba and such are likely marketing hype also as carnuaba is almost unspreadable at anything more than 35-40% and with VOC regulations in full force, what can you use to break it down into spreadable form otherwise??
Please dont think I am knocking P21S .... nice product but I prefer Max Wax, Pinnacle Sig Series, Paste Glaz, Nattys Blue and Pink Wax to it personally. Souveran sits above all of them.
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On a seperate note, I dont believe many of us are paying full price for Souveran. We use a forum discount, a special coupon, or find best value in the Sizzling Shine kit. So Souveran is likely costing $50-55. Now consider the 25-30 applications. HMM ! You will likely buy a small soda a burger king for 1.95 or a coffee at Starbucks for 3.99, yet you find it a stretch to pay 2.00 per application for one of the best carnuabas made. Come on ... we are not purchasing Zymol Estate Glazes at 1700.00 a custom blend.
GearHead_1
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- Mar 3, 2006
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killrwheels@autogeek said:
I am aware of Material Safety Data Sheets. Have you looked into these for the waxes mentioned? There are a lot of things that can make water bead including various acrylics and silicones. Bees Wax is just one of many. I'm aware that P21S mentions Bees Wax on their container they obviously aren't embarrassed by the fact that they use it. Just curious how you know it's a higher content in P21S and does that mean it has a lower content of carnauba than PS? I've been told (don't know if this is factual or not) that regardless of how carnauba is advertised in reality it's only about 30% (approx.) by volume of any quality paste wax other waxes, sovents and fillers make up the rest. Something has to be in the remaining percentage of the mix. Is Bees Wax bad? If so, what is a better filler (for lack of a better descriptor) it can't all be carnauba?