Please Help - What's a typical paint thickness variation on a late 80's Porsche?

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PorscheFan

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I'm finally joining the Autogeek forum after years of lurking! I'm a detailer by hobby but not by profession.

My question is actually about a car I may buy. Not a small amount of money for me...

I'm looking at a late-eighties metallic Porsche. Paint thickness (all layers) are around a 9 mils average but towards the passenger side rear fender the average is around 11 mils. It's a special order car, so was possibly painted off the line, but I'm not sure if this excuses this level of variation.

No obvious difference in texture or flop. Also no obvious edge lines. Hoping to get a better look tomorrow in the morning light.

So, does this necessarily indicate a panel respray for a Porsche of this era, or is this within an acceptable tolerance?

Thank you so much!!
 
I wouldn't be surprised seeing that variation. I have seen factory repaint where they just reshot the whole car and it almost doubled the thickness. If there is no damage history it is possible that part got a little extra. Guess it will come down to if you like the car and want it.
 
Thanks for your data points, Guyb! I love the car, but there are other great examples out there. I'm paying at the low end of a #1 condition car, and since I'm not as wealthy as I wish I was there's definitely an investment angle to this purchase. If there's anything that takes the condition from a #1 to something closer to a #2 then the difference is about $20K vs. other great examples out there. Since the seller wouldn't drop the price to match that would be a walk-away for me.

I guess it's a $20K question. When I say your feedback and advice is extremely valuable I really do mean it :cheers:
 
As much as I can ascertain, 3 slant noses were painted that color between '87 and '88 when that color was offered.
 
PorscheFan said:
I'm looking at a late-eighties metallic Porsche.
Paint thickness (all layers) are around a 9 mils
average but towards the passenger side rear
fender the average is around 11 mils.

It's a special order car, so was possibly painted
off the line, but I'm not sure if this excuses this
level of variation.

So, does this necessarily indicate a panel
respray for a Porsche of this era, or is this
within an acceptable tolerance?
Click to expand...
IMO:
9-11 mils (~229-279 microns) just seems
a little too "thick" for it to be 30 year old
OEM paint...even if it was a hand-spray.


But if you're looking for an ample amount
of paint for paint correction...that could be
a good thing in the overall game plan.


BTW: Is this the color?
Beautiful!

IMG_25182.JPG



Bob
 
Thanks! That is the color indeed... wonderfully eighties...

In general I like the idea of more paint vs. less, but in this case on an investment-grade car it would sadly be a walk-away. We shall see! On flight #2 to go see this thing. If nothing else it'I'll be a learning experience :xyxthumbs:
 
I agree with FUNX650. PorscheFan, I'm not saying it can't be the original paint, but I have not run into ANY factory air cooled car's paint with those depths/readings. (even if it was off the line paint, this still seems suspect to me, again only my opinion) The most I've ever seen was 14 mils and that was on a custom respray where the customer asked for additional clear to be sprayed.

A few things:

What gauge is being used to measure the paint? I'd want to be sure the PTG was calibrated properly. And, if you are in the market for investment vehicles, perhaps invest in a high end Defelsko for yourself...this way you will KNOW that your readings are as accurate as possible.

Let us know! (and that is a fantastic color on a slant...rare indeed...and so very typical of the era!)


***Also check the readings in the door jam areas as well...they typically are lower than on 'exterior' paint, and can give you an indication of if it has had some paint work done in the past***
 
Thanks much, Sizzle Chest! I PM'd you.

For those who have helped out and provided advice, here's the skinny on what went down today with the inspection. I also spoke to two other detailers today (one had worked on one of the other known cassis cars) and they didn't think the readings necessarily were inconsistent with 'certain' factory cars they'd seen from Porsche, esp. those pulled off of the main production line.

But...

But...

Visual inspection told a story quite different from the advertised description. The color and flop were highly consistent... perfect. Good news? Not so much, because the clear told its own story.

First, I noticed the front and doors had perfect 80's factory paint texture/orange peel... but that was dramatically reduced as soon as the rear fender panels started. Immediately at the start of those panels.

Second, the small half-moon covers that sit just above the rocker panels had true OEM paint texture. Clearly they had been removed for the paintwork and buffing and then replaced. There would be no way to get a polisher on the surrounding paint yet completely miss them.

Opening the rear boot lid it looked perfect, with no paint lines, yet one side of the water channel clearly felt rough to the touch, whereas the other side and the back felt smooth...

Then, driver's front fender... A series of clustered wax residue? Nope - imperfections in the color that were perfectly and smoothly cleared over. These were visible from 6 feet with no special light source.

Then the roof: perfect factory orange peel on one side. Almost show-car smooth on the other, with minimal texture. At this point I was straight-up depressed. It's like a detailer who didn't get texture matching just randomly went to town on the roof.

Interior was immaculate. Underside was nice, but maybe too detailed? Bottom line is I dodged a bullet and benefited hugely from the members of this board.

I'm starting to learn to trust my eyes. The dealer selling the car wasn't trying to put one over on me. I don't believe they noticed most of it as they tend to deal with new cars.

The point about investing in a paint meter is well taken. It's cheap insurance. The search continues!

I cannot thank the members of this board enough.
 
I wanted to give an update on this for completeness. I was able to verify through past owners that that rear fender had indeed been repainted, so that has been confirmed.

I also talked to a high-end restoration shop and the paint expert there mentioned that the 'constellation' on the front fender was almost certainly failure of the original metallic, explaining it being perfectly cleared over. Given that I could only find evidence of one panel being repainted (though clearly another that needs work)

The highly irregular paint texture? I'm now simply putting that down to a poor detailer. The comment made earlier about there being lots of paint to work with on this car make sense. At this point the original factory paint texture cannot be recovered, but the car could be detailed down to a 'show car' type finish.

Just thought I'd close the loop on this one since I received two more data points. The more I look at these older cars the more I learn. Typically people don't disclose issues... They leave it up to you to find them. Ironically there would have been a high chance of me buying this car if it had've been explained openly. Funny.
 
Here is the 'constellation' of marks in the color layer that made me think it was a paint defect that had been cleared over. Now believing this is original paint failure, maybe due to minor trauma at some point (e.g. PDR). It's hard to photograph, so I've bumped up the contrast. About the same circumference as the base of a soda can. Has anybody seen something like this before?

View attachment 56247

View attachment 56248
 
Hard to see, but maybe Chitin acid etching due to a bird poop left on too long?
 
Thanks. It is hard to see... It's one of those things that'd definitively there, but isn't too bad.

It's definitely in the color vs. the clear (clear is perfect). And it's in a circular shape (though you can only see the bottom of the circle in this picture because it's more pronounced).

A paint guy told me it was failure in the color coat. I've never seen another example before (though he clearly had). I thought I'd seen everything... apparently I'm not even close!
 
PorscheFan said:
Here is the 'constellation' of marks in the color layer that made me think it was a paint defect that had been cleared over. Now believing this is original paint failure, maybe due to minor trauma at some point (e.g. PDR). It's hard to photograph, so I've bumped up the contrast. About the same circumference as the base of a soda can. Has anybody seen something like this before?
Click to expand...


Does it look like this?


Imprint Chips - Chips in the paint caused by a thrown egg


When an egg is thrown at a car's painted panel, the force of the shell impacting and breaking up against the paint leaves a very specific type of chip pattern I call Imprint Chips.

Imprint Chips

EggImprintChips01.jpg


EggImprintChips02.jpg



Fixing Imprint Chips is very difficult because there are usually lots of them in varying sizes including very tiny chipped areas.



:)
 
Thanks, Mike. The shape is very similar but the individual marks are much larger and there are much fewer of them. An egg! I never knew an egg could do so much damage as in those photos!

It makes me want to buy egg beaters instead of the real thing (well, at least buy those for the neighbors' kids) :xyxthumbs:
 
PorscheFan said:
Thanks, Mike. The shape is very similar but the individual marks are much larger and there are much fewer of them.

An egg! I never knew an egg could do so much damage as in those photos!
Click to expand...


I agree. It's hard to imagine an egg can do some much damage. My guess is it's the hardness and sharpness of the egg shell, combined with the weight of the liquid inside plus the velocity at which the egg hits your car's paint that when put all together causes the Egg Imprint Chips in the paint.


Makes a garage look like a safe bet... especially around Halloween.


:)
 
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