Polish before coating?

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CleanIT

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I had no idea.

"Polishing the paint is not a required step for ceramic coatings to bond with the surface. If you want to extract the best looks out of it, then yes. But many people mistakenly think that it is a necessary step to coating, and that is not true."

"In our many years of experience working with coatings, working with manufacturers on product development, and testing coatings with and without polishing, we have found no differences in durability. And to Dennis B's comment, this video is talking about whether or not polishing is essential to coating...and it is not. Will you get better looks? Absolutely. But is it absolutely necessary...not at all."
 
The idea is that a coating lasts 1-3 years. Why pay that money and effort to put a coating without making sure the paint looks its best. Otherwise, any existing scratches or blemishes, will be well protected. :)

But I would expect that a clay would be important to remove any contaminants that are embedded in the paint that could interfere with the coating performing its best. And as many have stated on AGO, clay has the chance to mar the paint so if you clay, a polish step may likely be needed.
 
I agree with you. I was surprised that it apparently doesn't impact the bonding and longevity. That threw me off.
 
I look at fine polish as a deep cleaning for the paint and the surface, I will always polish before I coat. Is it a requirement? No. But just like I will always sweep my tile before I mop it , I’ll always polish first.
 
All that is required is for the surface to be free of any contaminants that would affect the bonding, products like gyeon prep will accomplish the minimum. Now for best results, obviously the better state you get the surface the better results you will get-- bonding is the subject.
Now for optimum performance-- getting the most out of the product ( longevity & gloss ) decon, clay & polish will all greatly enhance performance.
 
Even more ironic is that was from Esoteric. Never thought they would suggest you don't have to polish.
 
I actually bought a brand-new Longhorn Limited Edition just last Friday. I actually did a decon for iron and tar followed by a Bilt Hamber hand wash. Went ahead and applied Can Coat Evo without claying or polishing. My simple reasoning was I will be driving this truck 75 miles a day all winter and I wanted to save clear coat. Once spring is here it will get the the full monty of steps including the claying and polish. I think Can Coat Evo with their ceramic detail spray applied once a month or so will stretch it till spring. I will also use Bathe Plus mixed in here and there. That is my reasoning for skipping the polish. Since claying id fast, I should have went ahead and done that probably. I just dont like to clay unless I follow up with a polish.
 
CleanIT said:
Even more ironic is that was from Esoteric. Never thought they would suggest you don't have to polish.
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They are simply being honest, which is refreshing.

Like others have mentioned, a coating simply needs a clean surface with nothing to get in the way/interfere with the chemical bonds to the surface. The appearance or smoothness of the surface doesn't matter. I've had that stuff bond to my skin when I was careless and didn't wear gloves one time!
 
Yeah apparently ValuGard ABC get’s surface completely clean and from my understanding it is just a Acid wash, alkaline wash and a ph neutral wash.

Through in a iron remover and tar remover and I think you would be good to go on a new car or garage queen.

On a daily though I wouldn’t think all this would not remove all the bonded contamination. Would need at minimum a clay.


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Meh, to me it's the difference between doing it and doing it right. YMMV. Right up there with you don't need to ceramic coat it at all, just use spray on sealants, etc.

I guarantee even on a brand new car if I did a 50/50 right down the middle, the owner would have a far more enjoyable and rewarding experience on the polished and coated side than on the non polished and coated side. Especially as it relates to day to day appearance and care.
 
I don't think anyone is arguing the point that you should polish, it looks better, and its the right thing to do if investing the money on a coating. They are simply saying polishing isn't a required step. Bare minimum requirement vs what should be done.

For the home hobbyist, there may be a situation where they might need to apply a coating in less than ideal circumstances and it's good for them to know it will be OK. I've been there.
 
Desertnate said:
I don't think anyone is arguing the point that you should polish, it looks better, and its the right thing to do if investing the money on a coating. They are simply saying polishing isn't a required step. Bare minimum requirement vs what should be done.

For the home hobbyist, there may be a situation where they might need to apply a coating in less than ideal circumstances and it's good for them to know it will be OK. I've been there.
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Right. What I wasn't aware of, specifically, was the bonding part. In their experience, polishing does not help the bond, which goes against everything I thought.

I think once you do a full polish, and apply a coating, if the paint is still looking good to you (subjective) after the coating wears off, then just put on another layer. I will likely go that route with Can Coat.
 
CleanIT said:
Right. What I wasn't aware of, specifically, was the bonding part. In their experience, polishing does not help the bond, which goes against everything I thought.

I think once you do a full polish, and apply a coating, if the paint is still looking good to you (subjective) after the coating wears off, then just put on another layer. I will likely go that route with Can Coat.
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Disagree with bonding. Something is not going to bond as well if you have contaminants on the surface. Self cleaning ability and water behavior will not be as it should. Longevity/durability will be less than. Same with look. All basically as ttq b4u had stated.

Will it work? Sure...can you do it sure? Same goes for applying a wax or sealant. Just dont expect the same results.


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opie said:
Disagree with bonding. Something is not going to bond as well if you have contaminants on the surface. Self cleaning ability and water behavior will not be as it should. Longevity/durability will be less than. Same with look. All basically as ttq b4u had stated.

Will it work? Sure...can you do it sure? Same goes for applying a wax or sealant. Just dont expect the same results.


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I don't disagree and I'm not as experienced as most on here, but Esoteric makes the case that bonding is not an issue. However, a full decon short of polish is necessary.

"In our many years of experience working with coatings, working with manufacturers on product development, and testing coatings with and without polishing, we have found no differences in durability. And to Dennis B's comment, this video is talking about whether or not polishing is essential to coating...and it is not. Will you get better looks? Absolutely. But is it absolutely necessary...not at all."
 
Desertnate said:
Bare minimum requirement vs what should be done.
Click to expand...

Look, I get it, my point is simply that anyone working with a Ceramic coating and staying with the bare minimum is like buying a 911 Turbo and never driving it. You May as well save your money and efforts as the end results won't be anywhere near what they would be to simply run a polisher over it. Can it be done, sure, I suppose, but why? YMMV.

IMO the more common debate would be does one need to perform a full paint correction vs a basic non-corrective polish and the answer there is still a no.

Fun thread. Pic is for attention but in reality, it is true :D

original.jpg
 
when i got the detailing bug a few years back, i felt like it was like that children's book "If you give a mouse a cookie....

If you want a brilliant shine, you need a good LSP, but if you put an LSP on it, you should prep the surface, before you prep, you may want to correct and polish, but don't do that unless you've clay barred the surface, now a clay bar can pick up particulates and mar the clear coat, so before you clay bar, consider applying an iron remover and a bug and tar remover as well, before you that, let's talk washes and microfibers.....

I've always assumed you could seal up or coat a crappy marred up clear coat, just need to prep it....but why would you do that in the name of all things holy and good?
 
The part I was interested in and surprised by was not whether one should or shouldn't polish, but rather, would a coating bond to a non-polished surface. And the answer appears to be yes, with no issues.

I would always polish before applying a coating, but subsequent applications I would evaluate the paint first and if it is in good shape per my standards, I would just re-apply it and save the clear coat (and time/$).
 
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