POLL - What's the number one most important factor when it comes to polishing paint?
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Mike Phillips
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Just to comment...
No such thing as an old thread.
If the information is good. If the topic is compelling - then the age of the thread is a non-issue. I personally have articles that are over 10 years old and older and the information shared in the article is just as accurate today as when I wrote it.
Here's an article I wrote approximately, one month after coming to Autogeek from Meguiar's on the topic of how to use a simple dual action polisher. The information in this article is just as accurate today as when I wrote it.
Step-by-Step How-To use the Porter Cable 7424XP
Recently we had Justin Labato here for demo of Buff and Shine pads at out Cars & Coffee car show. During his demo he demonstrated most of the techniques I shared in this article 8 years ago. The paint he worked on started out all swirled-out and when he was done it looked perfect.
Justin demonstrating how to use a simple DA polisher
Here's an article I wrote on MeguiarsOnline.com back in 2004, that's 13 years ago, and the information it shares is still just as accurate today as when I wrote it. The tools, pads and products have changed but the techniques are the same techniques a person would use today with the same style of polisher.
Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line
So for everyone and anyone ever reading this thread or any thread into the future... there's no such thing as an old thread if the information is accurate, on topic and most important... helpful.
:dblthumb2:
Mike Phillips
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Derrick
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Technique takes into account all of the other choices. You adjust technique to properly use whatever you have at your disposal. You may not get optimal results but you may be able to greatly improve the look of vehicle while using the other inferior choices. Just give me meg 82 and I'm good.
Wow! I answered my own question. Abrasive technology.
Wow! I answered my own question. Abrasive technology.
Mike Phillips
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***My bad***
When I originally created this, I should have worded it differently and how I actually meant.
What I meant was,
IF you didn't have any control over the car/paint, tool, pad or the product...
Then what would be the most important factor.
I'm sure some of you will stick by your original answer.
The mistake I made by not wording this poll how I intended was that you wouldn't get to choose your compound or polish. Most people "figured" they could use what they know and already like. But that was kind of my point. Sure there's some great products on the market but there's also some caveman products on the market and all the technique in the world won't make some products work.
So maybe when I get back from the Labor Day weekend I'll start a new poll and word it differently.
When I originally created this, I should have worded it differently and how I actually meant.
What I meant was,
IF you didn't have any control over the car/paint, tool, pad or the product...
Then what would be the most important factor.
I'm sure some of you will stick by your original answer.
The mistake I made by not wording this poll how I intended was that you wouldn't get to choose your compound or polish. Most people "figured" they could use what they know and already like. But that was kind of my point. Sure there's some great products on the market but there's also some caveman products on the market and all the technique in the world won't make some products work.
So maybe when I get back from the Labor Day weekend I'll start a new poll and word it differently.
kkritsilas
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You answered correctly the first time.
It is your technique (knowlegebackground/experience ( that has allowed yo to have the confidence that you do in choosing Meguiar's 82. I am assuming that you get goid/great results with it, which is why you are choising it. However, you are getting the good/great results with it because you are using the right pads/polisher/arm speed/ppad speed with it.
If somebody gave tou a bottke of Meguiar's #82, with no polisher or pads, woukd you get tge sane results? If omebody gave you tge same Megiar's #82, and a grinder with a minimum operating apeed of 7000 RPM, would you get the same results?
It is your technique (knowlegebackground/experience ( that has allowed yo to have the confidence that you do in choosing Meguiar's 82. I am assuming that you get goid/great results with it, which is why you are choising it. However, you are getting the good/great results with it because you are using the right pads/polisher/arm speed/ppad speed with it.
If somebody gave tou a bottke of Meguiar's #82, with no polisher or pads, woukd you get tge sane results? If omebody gave you tge same Megiar's #82, and a grinder with a minimum operating apeed of 7000 RPM, would you get the same results?
Derrick
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Mike,
Taught me how to polish paint by hand over 10 years ago on a cold and rainy day in Dallas. So yes, I could do it by hand... with a grinder? No way! LOL
Mike Phillips
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Using a grinder would be foolish but fools do exist.
I'm so glad you mentioned you attended that first Meguair's Roadshow Car Detailing Class
Car Detailing History
Half my forum or Facebook work is simply remember where everthing's at so I can share it. Remind people of the past...
I started this concept of a "roadshow detailing class" back in 2006 when I worked at Meguiar's. The first class I organized via a discussion forum was a class in Dallas, Texas.
Meguiar's Roadshow Goes To Dallas, Texas This Weekend!
Here's the first picture in that thread, seated right up front, just to the left of the projector is Scott Hair aka ScottWax.
Where are you Derrick?
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasClass1.jpg
Read more at http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forum...-Roadshow-Goes-To-Dallas!#RgWA1OHKAHxwAfsc.99
Here's me showing how to use a Swirl Finder light 11 years ago
Without the Swirl Finder, the finish looked pretty good in the dimly lit warehouse, but with the aid of the Swirl Finder it was easy to see the clear coat finish was filled with hundreds of thousands of swirls
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasSwirlsLocated.jpg
Read more at http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forum...how-Goes-To-Dallas!/page3#svdXJrOHyHH7ZFV2.99
A few more pics from that class...
Before claying, we quickly recapped the benefits of claying the finish using detailing clay.
- * Removes above surface bonded contaminants that normal washing won't remove.
* Enables wax to bond or adhere better to the paint and thus last long and protect longer.
* Restores smoothness to the finish and this restores and improves gloss for a beautiful finish.
* Unlike an old-fashioned rubbing or polishing compounds, claying does all of the above without removing paint and without instilling scratches during the process.
To clay the car we used Meguiar's new Smooth Surfaceâ„¢ Clay Kit as well as the Mild Clay from Meguiar's Professional Line, both of which Wash Solutions carries in stock. Meguiar's new Smooth Surface Clay Kit comes with two individually wrapped clay bars so you can use one clay bar and save the other clay bar until you've completely used up the first clay bar.
Two clay bars in the new Smooth Surface Clay Kit
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2Dallas2Pieces.jpg
Here two class members try their hands at claying for the first time...
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasClayinga.jpg
If you wipe off any leftover residue from the Quik Detailer as you're moving around the car with a microfiber like Meguiar's Supreme Shine Microfiber, the paint will be ready to move on to the next step.
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasWipingAsYouGo.jpg
After claying the car we asked a few people to turn their clay wafers over and show the results of the kind of contaminants being removed from the paint, look at the icky brown gunk that was actually bonded to the clear coat that the detailing clay removed. Often times you eyes cannot see this type of build-up, but the clay bar will remove it and reveal it to your eyes.
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasDirtyClay3.jpg
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasDirtyClay.jpg
Then everyone felt the amazing difference in before & after...
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasFeelingClayedFinish2a.jpg
Read more at http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forum...how-Goes-To-Dallas!/page4#bBRHq00PkVoOOmuH.99
Mike Phillips
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And here's the pictures showing how to work by hand...
The techniques were about to use can all be found right here in this article, How to remove a defect by hand using ScratchX
When removing swirls, scratches and etchings out of the paint, you want to first apply some ScratchX to your applicator pad.
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasApplyingScratchX1.jpg
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasApplyingScratchX1c.jpg
Note that I applied the ScratchX to the outer edge of the applicator pad and not the center.
Here's a quick lesson on how to hold an applicator pad when applying paint cleaners, polishes and waxes. As when you grip the applicator pad, your 4-fingers, (the fingers that will be doing the work), will be placed on the outside edge of the applicator pad on one side and your thumb will be sandwiching the applicator pad between your fingers like this,
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2HandPosistion1.jpg
When you turn the pad over, your 4-fingers should be placed around the outer edge of the foam pad but still inside the edge about a half inch or so...
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2HandPosistion2.jpg
Because your 4 fingers applying the pressure over the foam are placed around the outer perimeter of the applicator pad, you want to apply your dollop of ScratchX in this area also on the face of the pad. Like this,
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2HandPosistion3.jpg
When you're ready to start, the first thing you want to do is spread the ScratchX out over the area you're going to be working on, this acts so simply spread the product-out
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasApplyingScratchX2.jpg
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasApplyingScratchX3.jpg
--> After <-- you have spread the product out over the area you're going to work on...
--> Then <--, begin to work the product against the finish.
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasApplyingScratchX4.jpg
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasApplyingScratchX5.jpg
image: http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2DallasApplyingScratchX6.jpg
When applying ScratchX with the intended goal of removing swirls and scratches, the idea is to work the microscopic diminishing abrasives against the finish with some force so that you will in essence cause the diminishing abrasives to take little bites out of the paint in an effort to level the upper most surface with the lowest depth of the scratch.
You cannot get results by merely wiping ScratchX on, (gently, like a face cream), as this won't work. ScratchX must be worked against the finish by you putting a little passion behind the pad.
After you have worked the ScratchX against the finish for a 1-3 minutes, depending upon how large or small an area you carve out and how aggressively you're working it, you can stop and wipe any excess residue off the paint because ScratchX does not need to dry before removing it. Often times, if you're working on a darker color paint, the product will start out as an opaque, or whitish color film and after you've effectively worked it against the finish it will turn clear and oily looking, somewhat like baby oil or Vaseline would look if you were to apply it to some paint.
The idea is to work this product against the finish, the diminishing abrasives do their work and after they have done their work and broken down, (now they're no longer working, or abrading the paint, it's now time to remove the product as their is no further benefit to the paint or the process to allow the product to dry.
- 1. Apply
2. Work against paint
3. Wipe off
4. Repeat if necessary
In most cases, in order to remove swirls and scratches, you will need to apply around 3 applications over each section. Sometimes more. In the case this BMW, we removed the swirls after 3 applications and about 99.9% of the Bird Dropping etching with a total of 5 applications.
How many applications of a hand applied product like ScratchX is determined by,
- A) Paint hardness or softness.
B) The depth of the defect you're trying to remove.
B) Your skill and ability - Practice makes perfect.
Often times the question of which direction to move your hand comes up either at a class like this or on our forum... we have you're answer right here...
Circles or Straight Lines?
My own personal preferences are to spread the product out using circular motions and the to work the product against the finish using back & forth, or straight-line motions and then finish the area off with some cover passes in circles, so I use a combination of both.
Remember, after each application you will need to remove any left over residue from off the paint before applying fresh ScratchX so you don't dilute, or adulterate the fresh product with the old product.
Good times...
kkritsilas
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I started polishing by hand as well. In my case, it was with Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #2, followed by Mirror Glaze #9, and then Meguiar's #26 paste wax. All by hand, using yellow cotton cloths at the time. This was on my first new car, a 1988 Chevrolet Berretta V-6. This sounds like a joke now, but I had the nicest looking car in the neighbourhood. This was so early in the car detailng world, I actually couldn't get the Meguiar's products in the car parts stores (biggest at the time was probably Canadian Tire, still a major retailer, in Montreal). I actually had to research where to buy Meguiar's products (I was on the Internet at the time, so was able to get the Meguiar's head office phone number from a poster on a Usenet newsgroup). I went to the distributor, and had to convince them pretty hard to sell me the products, as they were oriented towards body shops and car dealers, who would buy the products a case at a time, and they didn't want to break open a case for me. Helped a lot when I showed them the letter that Meguiar's had sent me for this purpose.
I have a new answer!
Lighting!!!
If you don't have great lighting you cant even see if a product is leaving micro marring or if a polish is fully correcting. I just used that "atomic headlamp" from TV. My garage is well lit but you still need something like the headlamp to see whats going on. It goes through a lot of batteries though.
Lighting!!!
If you don't have great lighting you cant even see if a product is leaving micro marring or if a polish is fully correcting. I just used that "atomic headlamp" from TV. My garage is well lit but you still need something like the headlamp to see whats going on. It goes through a lot of batteries though.
You were on the internet in 1988? IDK about that?
I also went with paint for the same reasons you stated.
kkritsilas
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fightnews:
I was on the Internet in 1985. The Internet has been in existence since 1969 in wide use; its roots go back to 1964 (DARPA project). At the time (1985), there were no websites, or World Wide Web (what most people call the Internet today). There was email, Usenet mewsgroups, FTP uploads/downloads, IRC chat, and a few other protocols. My main machine at the time for internet acces was a DEC Vaxstation 3100.
It may not have looked like today's Internet, but everything that you see and have today online, was built on those foundations. I worked at a major company that had locations all over the planet, and data was being sent over the Internet between locations around the world. It was slower (T1 lines were only 1.5 MB/s approximately), but it worked, and it worked well. Data was also a lot smaller then; no video/high res photographs/on line gaming as we know it today.
I used to read a lot of Usenet newsgroups, things like comp.sci.mac, and messages were all in plain text; any and all formatting was done at your own machine, not in the messages. No graphics, and emoticons were text characters, not little pictures.
So yeah, I was on the Internet in the 1980s.
I was on the Internet in 1985. The Internet has been in existence since 1969 in wide use; its roots go back to 1964 (DARPA project). At the time (1985), there were no websites, or World Wide Web (what most people call the Internet today). There was email, Usenet mewsgroups, FTP uploads/downloads, IRC chat, and a few other protocols. My main machine at the time for internet acces was a DEC Vaxstation 3100.
It may not have looked like today's Internet, but everything that you see and have today online, was built on those foundations. I worked at a major company that had locations all over the planet, and data was being sent over the Internet between locations around the world. It was slower (T1 lines were only 1.5 MB/s approximately), but it worked, and it worked well. Data was also a lot smaller then; no video/high res photographs/on line gaming as we know it today.
I used to read a lot of Usenet newsgroups, things like comp.sci.mac, and messages were all in plain text; any and all formatting was done at your own machine, not in the messages. No graphics, and emoticons were text characters, not little pictures.
So yeah, I was on the Internet in the 1980s.
asap2stacks
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I'd say abrasive technology, reason why is you see so many people that have no knowledge when it comes to removing a scratch or spider webbing. They don't know which product to use and what does what, I always see theses guys or girls at car shows or coming into my shop breaking out a wax or sealant saying they attempted to Remove the scratch/micro marring when really all they did was fill it in and later on it just becomes more visible. With out using the right product you will only get so far!
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Android
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I voted technique , but I wonder about the weather too . The temperature and the humidity . When its real humid I usually don't use any product on my car as I've noticed a difference in the application of waxes and detailing sprays . The flash time for my detailing spray changes and I wonder if I am getting the full benefit .
kkritsilas
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It is your understanding/knowedge/experience (=technique) that tells ou which product to use or that trying to machine polish today is a waste of time because of the humidity level. It is your knowledge/understanding/technique that tells you that a particular car's paint is soft/medium,/hard/very hard, and drives you to choose the pads/abrasives/polisher/polisher speed to use. No matter how good an abrasive is, it will work better on some paints, and not so good on others, and why those abrasives need to be paired with the proper pad, rotating at the appropriate speed, with the right arm speed, applied in the right quantity to the pad to get great results. How many postings on these forums are of the "disappointing results with XYZ polisher/Compound/Pad", and inevitably, there is either a mispplication of product (pads/abrasives) or improper usage (too fast an arm speed/too fast or slow rotation/too much or little product,/pad being used for too long and loaded with clear coat fesidue/or abrasive)? The people responding to the posting are using their knowledge)understanding/experience (=technique) to help out the original poster. Almost inevitably it is not "get a different abrasive/pad/ polisher", it is change pads more often", "arm speed is too high", " you are using too much too little abrasive"; on occasion, replies will be "get a different abrasive for more cut/better finish", or "try such and such pad", but they are far less common than the first set of suggestions.