Poorboy's clay: reason it's not sold here @ AG?

:iagree:
LDJaxon said:
It was dark when I finished, so I only got garage shots; it's really hard to tell much. There was tar all over the back that the clay got off. I didn't do any kind of correction, but a lot of the minor scratches and swirls got filled in naturally. Needless to say, my husband was surprised and pleased.

Is it a sign of detailing obsession when you see things you missed as you look at the pictures later?
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Thanks for posting this question. I'd like to know, as well. There must be a difference, but, how much of it is product difference & how much is packaging/marketing spin.

The quotes from the product spec. pages are intriguing. How can the Pinnacle be as effective (aka, if I am using the proper terminology - "abrasive") and yet be safer? To be effective, does the more aggressive clay have to be more abrasive & therefore, create more friction? If so, that would make sense........

Can you folks provide a technical answer?

Thx.

See ya
seeya.gif


MisterShark said:
Thanks all for voicing your preferences: keep em coming.

I have another question to throw into the mix. I've been reading the AG "How To Use Detailing Clay" page and I'm a bit confused about one aspect of the "two different grades of clay currently available to the public".
  • The 'medium grade' (Wolfgang Elastic Poly Clay, XMT Speed Clay, and DP Universal Detailing Clay are noted examples) are noted as being able to "remove wax along with anything else on the vehicle"
  • The 'fine grade' (Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay is specified as this grade) is claimed as being able to "remove everything the medium clay removes and it is gentle enough to use monthly or as needed for spot cleaning".
So here's my question: If the 'fine grade' (Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay) is as effective as the 'medium grade' varieties but is more safe to use (noted as 'gentle'), why would anyone use the medium grade clays at all?

Safer and as effective? Choosing only the fine grade seems like a no-brainer based on what info is presented.



lol; at this point i should re-name this thread 'MisterShark's Journey into the World of Clay' :p
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MisterShark said:
So here's my question: If the 'fine grade' (Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay) is as effective as the 'medium grade' varieties but is more safe to use (noted as 'gentle'), why would anyone use the medium grade clays at all?

What I've learned from hours on this sight is: 1) You can't go wrong with anything you get from AG. They are professionals with true devotion to their customers. Any product here is going to be so vastly different from what you've gotten at auto stores before that at first you won't notice subtle differences between brands; Wolfgang vs. Pinnacle, etc. And 2) You can only learn so much by reading and researching; the true education comes from doing. Once you've gained some experience, then you will begin to appreciate what one product/tool has over another. And even then, based on the number of positive opinions on multiple similar items, I expect in many cases it still comes down to simple personal preference.
Based on that assessment, I went with Wolfgang. I needed to start somewhere, for consistency I wanted to stick with the same brand, so I went with the German product for my German car. And I couldn't be happier!!!....until my PB wheel sealant comes in this weekend and I get to see what it can do with my brake dust issues. :D
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LDJaxon said:
You can only learn so much by reading and researching; the true education comes from doing.
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I agree on the first-hand experience part but this is my first new car in over 15 years and a finish is only brand new once; I'd like to avoid the potential negative side of the learning curve (ie: having something go wrong and screw my finish) as much as possible in order to keep that finish as pristine as possible for as long as possible.
That's one of the beautiful things about message board communities: there's a wealth of knowledge and experience all ready laid out for a n00b like me to tap into, appreciate, and eventually pass along to the next generation of n00bs.

If I can eliminate the possibility of making a mistake due to using an inferior product or tool, then I'm that much further along.
Take Nu Finish products for instance. If I wasn't driven to do some research to make sure I treated my car right, I might never have found this place and learned of that brand's low favorability ranking among car care products.
I'm a researcher. Learn as much as possible before going into something and at least you've got that base covered.
The other half of things is experience which has to come with time, but at least I'll have the first half of the battle already won.
 
A fine grade WILL remove what a medium grade can BUT it will be much slower.

Its like saying a fine polish will remove what a compound can remove. Yes it will remove it but with far more time and for more passes whereas you can just do one pass with the compound.

Fine grade is for cars that have been previously clayed or have very little contamination (but than how would you know how much it has unless you clay it?).

If your working on your own car and have all the time in the world to clay than by all means, use a fine grade clay.

If you need to get things done quick and there's a lot of contamination than that's why you would use a medium grade clay. You might have to follow up with polishing though
 
I use medium grade if I will be following with polish, fine grade if going strait to LSP, my choices are Pinnacle for fine, and TOL purple for medium.
 
Dsoto87 said:
A fine grade WILL remove what a medium grade can BUT it will be much slower.

Its like saying a fine polish will remove what a compound can remove. Yes it will remove it but with far more time and for more passes whereas you can just do one pass with the compound.

Fine grade is for cars that have been previously clayed or have very little contamination (but than how would you know how much it has unless you clay it?).

If your working on your own car and have all the time in the world to clay than by all means, use a fine grade clay.

If you need to get things done quick and there's a lot of contamination than that's why you would use a medium grade clay. You might have to follow up with polishing though
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Good summary.

Detailing clay works somewhat like sandpaper in that there is an abrasive in the clay that when rubbed over the surface using a lubricant the abrasives will basically sand off the tops of anything bonded or sticking-up on the surface of the paint. As the above surface bonded contaminants are removed the surface will become flat or smooth and at this point the clay stops abrading and simply glides over the surface. At this point you wipe off the residue and move on to new territory.

Because the clay is tacky, as the contaminant are removed they accumulate into the clay, for this reason you need to knead your clay to expose a fresh surface and at some point the clay will become so loaded with contaminants that you'll want to dispose of it and next time you clay start with fresh clay.

The less aggressive the clay, the more passes or strokes it will require to abrade off any bonded contaminants, that said the very aggressive clays are aggressive enough that on some paint systems they will cause what's referred to as clay haze, which is another way of saying clay scratches. Aggressive clays are typically for Professional Detailers and technicians that work in body shops where speed is king and because after the claying process the paint is usually going to be buffed with a rotary buffer so any haze the aggressive clay instill will be obliterated by the buffing step with the rotary buffer.

I've used aggressive clay and hazed the paint on a couple of cars in the past and in once case a PC with a SMR was powerful enough to remove the hazing and in another instance, a Mercedes-Benz trunk lid, the paint was so hard that it required a rotary buffer with a wool pad and an aggressive compound to remove the hazing. How hard it is to remove a defect out of any car has nothing to do with the clay but instead has everything to do with the hardness or polishability of the paint in question and this is a huge variable that you just don't know until you bring your hand or your polisher down onto the paint surface and do a little testing.

As long as you stick with the ultra fine, fine and medium grade clays you won't have any problems. Keep in mind just as important as using the right product for the job is to always work clean, that is everything must be clean before claying or any paint care procedure. So wash, rinse and dry the car thoroughly before claying and you'll be okay.


:)
 
Dsoto87 said:
A fine grade WILL remove what a medium grade can BUT it will be much slower.

Its like saying a fine polish will remove what a compound can remove. Yes it will remove it but with far more time and for more passes whereas you can just do one pass with the compound.

Fine grade is for cars that have been previously clayed or have very little contamination (but than how would you know how much it has unless you clay it?).

If your working on your own car and have all the time in the world to clay than by all means, use a fine grade clay.

If you need to get things done quick and there's a lot of contamination than that's why you would use a medium grade clay. You might have to follow up with polishing though
Click to expand...

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Good summary.

Detailing clay works somewhat like sandpaper in that there is an abrasive in the clay that when rubbed over the surface using a lubricant the abrasives will basically sand off the tops of anything bonded or sticking-up on the surface of the paint. As the above surface bonded contaminants are removed the surface will become flat or smooth and at this point the clay stops abrading and simply glides over the surface. At this point you wipe off the residue and move on to new territory.

Because the clay is tacky, as the contaminant are removed they accumulate into the clay, for this reason you need to knead your clay to expose a fresh surface and at some point the clay will become so loaded with contaminants that you'll want to dispose of it and next time you clay start with fresh clay.

The less aggressive the clay, the more passes or strokes it will require to abrade off any bonded contaminants, that said the very aggressive clays are aggressive enough that on some paint systems they will cause what's referred to as clay haze, which is another way of saying clay scratches. Aggressive clays are typically for Professional Detailers and technicians that work in body shops where speed is king and because after the claying process the paint is usually going to be buffed with a rotary buffer so any haze the aggressive clay instill will be obliterated by the buffing step with the rotary buffer.

I've used aggressive clay and hazed the paint on a couple of cars in the past and in once case a PC with a SMR was powerful enough to remove the hazing and in another instance, a Mercedes-Benz trunk lid, the paint was so hard that it required a rotary buffer with a wool pad and an aggressive compound to remove the hazing. How hard it is to remove a defect out of any car has nothing to do with the clay but instead has everything to do with the hardness or polishability of the paint in question and this is a huge variable that you just don't know until you bring your hand or your polisher down onto the paint surface and do a little testing.

As long as you stick with the ultra fine, fine and medium grade clays you won't have any problems. Keep in mind just as important as using the right product for the job is to always work clean, that is everything must be clean before claying or any paint care procedure. So wash, rinse and dry the car thoroughly before claying and you'll be okay.


:)
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Wow; great answers guys! Thanks, that's the enlightenment I was looking for.

Being as my car is only a month and a half old at this point, I'm thinking I may be able to get away with the 'fine' grade such as Pinnacle's clay.

To be honest though, after placing 3 AG orders in a month or so's time: my bankroll is taking a beating on shipping costs.
I'm thinking of purchasing my clay at my local Autozone, Strauss or Wally World (gag). I believe they carry one or both: Meguiar's and/or Mother's clay kits.
Can anyone tell me what classification ('fine' or 'medium') those 2 brands are considered?
 
MisterShark said:
I believe they carry one or both: Meguiar's and/or Mother's clay kits.
Can anyone tell me what classification ('fine' or 'medium') those 2 brands are considered?
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The white clay bar in the Smooth Surface Clay kit would be considered close to the category Medium, maybe a tick less aggressive. It's a good clay kit and the white clay color let's you see easily what if anything you're removing as well as the true color of what you're removing.

I haven't used the Mother's clay kit but being a retail item for Joe Consumer it's probably very similar to the Meguiar's clay in the Smooth Surface Clay Kit.

I have a how-to article on claying that should be posted either today or tomorrow, if you can wait till I post it before you clay your car is it's pretty D.O.

D.O = Detail Oriented

D.O. is my term for A.R. as I don't like using the A.R. words in messages or in classes for what acronym A.R. stands for; it's just not family friendly enough for me personally but at the same time I like to get the idea it stands for across. So you'll see me use the term D.O. a lot on this forum. (A new acronym for all you acronym junkies)


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
The white clay bar in the Smooth Surface Clay kit would be considered close to the category Medium, maybe a tick less aggressive. It's a good clay kit and the white clay color let's you see easily what if anything you're removing as well as the true color of what you're removing.

I haven't used the Mother's clay kit but being a retail item for Joe Consumer it's probably very similar to the Meguiar's clay in the Smooth Surface Clay Kit.

I have a how-to article on claying that should be posted either today or tomorrow, if you can wait till I post it before you clay your car is it's pretty D.O.

D.O = Detail Oriented

D.O. is my term for A.R. as I don't like using the A.R. words in messages or in classes for what acronym A.R. stands for; it's just not family friendly enough for me personally but at the same time I like to get the idea it stands for across. So you'll see me use the term D.O. a lot on this forum. (A new acronym for all you acronym junkies)


:)
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Nice! <waits patiently>
 
jking said:
I use medium grade if I will be following with polish, fine grade if going strait to LSP, my choices are Pinnacle for fine, and TOL purple for medium.
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I am guessing TOL stands for The Other Label as in the people who sell the Citrus wash. Is that correct and if so how do you like TOL clays?
 
Jammer369 said:
I am guessing TOL stands for The Other Label as in the people who sell the Citrus wash. Is that correct and if so how do you like TOL clays?
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TOL stands for Top Of the Line. Another detailing supplier.
 
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