Porter Cable Swirls??

I have a 2011 Mustang 5.0, black. I've used Optimum all in one, then topped with Fuzion. The other day I noticed holograms, but was thinking one couldn't really put holograms in a car with a porter cable?


Did you buff out the entire car and then discover the problem or did you do a Test Spot first to make sure you were getting the results you wanted before buffing out the entire car?

By doing a Test Spot you make sure your process is working and if it isn't... you don't have to re-buff out the entire car to remove any problems your process inflicted.

The best way to do a test spot is with a tape-line on a flat or horizontal panel, working on just one side of the tape line will make it real easy for your eyes to see the progress you're making as compared to how the paint originally started out.


TapeLine02.jpg




As mentioned, finishing with a cutting pad is usually too aggressive and this is where your hazing can be coming from.


As for the words being used in this thread,

Holograms, Swirls, etc.


Holograms are another term for Rotary Buffer Inflected Swirls, they look like the rotary buffer swirls in this Mustang.

Horrendous005.jpg





These are Cobweb Swirl or Spiderweb Swirls and they are inflicted by touching the paint the wrong way over time, this could be dirty or poor quality wash mitts and wiping towels.

Cobweb Swirls lack the zig-zag pattern instilled by the way the rotary buffer is moved over the surface.

Cobweb Swirls also called Spiderweb Swirls
bmwcobwebswirls.jpg




In this article, the different types of below surface paint defects are discussed with pictures...


Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring



:)
 
Forgot I even wrote this article, but it completey focused on the differences between the difference " between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls and Micro-Marring.

The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls and Micro-Marring

There’s a lot of talk about swirls on detailing discussion forums when it comes to the topic of paint correction and I’m going to do my best to differentiate between the two primary groups of swirls as well as explain what Tick Marks or Micro-Marring is and then show what all 3 types of paint defects look like.


Swirls are Scratches
First off, lets make sure everyone understands what swirls are at their core scratches in the paint.

That’s right; swirls are simply scratches in the paint. Why we call them swirls instead of scratches is because of they way they look as compared to our preconceived ideas as to how we think scratches should look.

Most of us think of scratches as defects that are in more or less straight lines, like this,

StraightScratch.jpg




Swirls on the other hand are usually thought of as having a visual appearance of circular patterns of some type and when we view swirls, they do have circular patterns and it is these patterns that identify which type of swirls we’re looking at and more important.. how they were instilled into the paint.

Above and Below
Before we get into the different types of swirls and micro-marring, lets address the topic of above and below surface paint defects because which type of defect you’re working on will determine how you remove it.


Above Surface Bonded Contaminants
This would include air-borne contaminants that land on your car’s finish and then bond to the paint tightly enough that they won’t wash off when you wash your car. For example, Overspray Paint, Industrial Fallout, Pollution, Tree Sap Mist, basically any kind of contaminant that can becomes air-borne and lands on the surface of your car’s paint. Above Surface Bonded Contaminants can usually be removed using detailing clay and the removal process does not remove any good paint. While we’re talking about detailing clay, one of the most common questions I get is,

“Will detailing clay remove swirls?”

The answer is “no”

Detailing clay only removes contaminants sitting or bonded to the “top” of the paint, detailing clay will not abrade the paint and level it like an abrasive compound or polish.


Below Surface Paint Defects
This would include, all types of swirls, all scratches and any type of etching that penetrates below the original surface level of the top coat of paint.

Because below surface defects are physically a defect that is “in” the paint, not “on” the paint, the only way to remove Below Surface Paint Defects is to physically abrade the paint. The goal is to remove enough of the paint surrounding the Below Surface Paint Defects to level the upper most surface of the top coat with the lowest depths of the defects you’re trying to remove.

Does that make sense?


The problem is paint is thin. Because paint is thin you are limited to how much paint you can safely remove without jeopardizing the integrity of the top coat and/or possibly removing so much paint that you expose the underlying color coat in the case of a basecoat/clearcoat paint system or primer in the case of a single stage paint system.


Now that we know,
  • What swirls are
  • Where they’re located in the paint
  • How to remove them
Lets take a look at the different types of swirls.


Rotary Buffer Swirls
Also called: Holograms or Buffer Trails


Rotary Buffer Swirls, also called Holograms or Buffer Trails are circular scratches inflicted into paint by a rotary buffer and usually by the individual fibers that make up a wool cutting or polishing pad. The abrasives used in most compounds and polishes can also inflict swirls into a car's finish, thus anytime you're using a wool buffing pad and a compound or polish you now have two things potentially inflicting swirls into the paint.

Foam pads can also inflict rotary buffer swirls into paint depending upon the aggressiveness of the foam formula and the product used.

It is the direct drive rotating action of a rotary buffer that instills the circular pattern of scratches into paint usually in some type of zig-zag pattern that mimics the pattern in which the buffer was moved over the paint by the technician.

A rotary buffer is not evil because it and the buffing pads and compounds used with it impart swirls into paint, it's just a part of the cause and effect from using a direct drive tool that rotates a buffing pad in a single rotating direction.


Rotary Buffer Swirls usually show up when a car is exposed to bright light like the sun when its high overhead in the sky.

It's possible to use a rotary buffer and not instill rotary buffer swirl if the operator has a high skill level and uses quality pads and products. If rotary buffer swirls are instilled into paint, a true professional will do a follow-up process to remove them using less aggressive pads and products and sometimes switch to a different type of tool with a different mechanical polishing action.


The primary visual difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls and Cobweb Swirls is the rotary buffer imparts this identifiable pattern while Cobweb Swirls do not.

Examples of Rotary Buffer Swirls
69ss4.jpg


Horrendous005.jpg



The zillions of swirls in the clear layer makes the paint look hazy and blocks your view of the black paint under the clear top coat. This reduces the darkness of the paint making the true black look gray.
Horrendous006.jpg





Cobweb Swirls also called Spiderweb Swirls
Cobweb or Spiderweb swirls get their name because of the visual effect created when you place a strong source of focused bright light, like the Sun or the light from a Brinkmann Swirl Finder light onto a section of paint and view the finish.

The swirls you see look as though they form a circular pattern around the point of light but that's not actually what's taking place.


The fact of the matter is that the entire finish is so filled with random scratches, both straight and circular, that wherever you place a point of strong, focused light you'll see the circular or cobweb pattern show up because the millions of random scratches are reflecting light back to the source; this is what causes the visual cobweb effect.

You can easily prove this to be the case by simply moving your body position in a way that moves the point of light around to a different place on the panel.

As you move positions and thus move where the light is shining on the paint, it appears that wherever you place the point of light there is a circular or cobweb pattern of scratches in the paint.

The scratches are not specifically circular or round scratches and many of the scratches in the paint may be in straight lines, but with a strong beam of light shining on the paint the visual effect from the scratches all shining light back at the source creates the cobweb effect.


Does that make sense?


Cobweb scratches are instilled by all the random ways the paint is scratched through normal wear-n-tear and improper washing methods and products. Over time the finish is so filled with random scratches that the cobweb effect is the visual results when you look at the paint in bright light.

The cobweb swirl pattern is a different pattern than what you see with rotary buffer swirls because the rotary buffer swirls are not instilled randomly over time, they are instilled by a known source, (not random), usually in one detailing session.


Cobweb Swirls
Also called: Spiderweb Swirls

bmwcobwebswirls.jpg


decklid_swirls.jpg




Micro-Marring - Tick-Marks - DA-Haze

These three terms are pretty much the accepted terms for a scratch pattern left in some paints from the oscillating and rotating action from a compound or polish and a buffing pad when applied using a DA Polisher.

Unlike Cobweb swirls or Rotary Buffer Swirls, the scratch pattern instilled by a dual action polisher is made up of millions of tiny scratches, some are curved or circular but some are straight, like a small tick mark you would make with a pencil if you were keeping track of a count of some type.

Tick Marks are a sign that either the paint is on the soft side, so easily scratched or the pad and compound or polish you're using are too aggressive to finish out without leaving a mark.

In most cases Tick Marks can be removed by re-polishing with a different pad and product combination.

MicromarringTickMarks01.jpg


MicromarringTickMarks02.jpg



:)
 
As for using M105 on harder clear coats, this is a great approach especially because since it's a SMAT product, you control how long you buff and how aggressive you get, for less cut, use a less aggressive pad and don't buff as long, this is where doing a Test Spot comes in handy, you can dial in your pad, product and process, process being how many passes or for how long you need to buff to remove the defects you're trying to remove.

Here's a few articles on SMAT products...


The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!


This article is really long but covers all the SMAT products at the time it was written.

The SMAT Pack - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products...


Below is an excerpt from the above article...


SMATaggressivenessOrder.jpg


Professional Line
M105 Ultra Cut Compound
M95 Speed Cut Compound
M86 Solo Cut & Polish Cream
M205 Ultra Finishing Polish

Detailer Line
D151 Paint Reconditioning Cream also called PRC

Consumer Line
Ultimate Compound
ScratchX 2.0
SwirlX

Professional Line - Caters to the Refinishing Industry (Car repainting industry)
Detailer Line - Caters to the Reconditioning Industry (Detailing industry)
Consumer Line - Caters to Joe Consumer Do-it-yourselfers and Hobbyist Detailers



There's been a lot of questions about SMAT products lately so I've compiled a collection of all the SMAT Products with a brief description of them and when to use them and where. Below this first post in this thread is a dedicated reply with each product, some company information about each product and my comments.

First.... what are SMAT Products?

SMAT = Super Micro Abrasive Technology
SMAT products use Unigrit Abrasives for a controlled, even cutting action. There is one exception to the below and that is M95 Super Cut Compound. While the primary cutting ability of M95 comes from SMAT, it does also contain some diminishing abrasives but because the primary performance of it's cutting ability is due to SMAT it is included in the the SMAT category.


SMAT Timeline
Below is a list of all the current SMAT product in the order in which they were introduced to the market...

  • October, 2006 - M86 Cut & Polish Cream
  • December, 2007 - M105 Ultra Cut Compound
  • December, 2007 - M95 Speed Cut Compound
  • April, 2008 - D151 Paint Reconditioning Cream
  • November, 2008 - M105 Ultra Cut Compound - New Formula: DA Polisher Approved
  • November, 2008 - M205 Ultra Finishing Polish
  • November, 2008 - Ultimate Compound
  • November, 2008 - SwirlX
  • November, 2008 - ScratchX - New & Improved with SMAT

The difference between Diminishing and Non-Diminishing Abrasives BEFORE SMAT

There were two common types of abrasives used in paint care products usually for removing below surface defects like swirls, scratches and water spots in the enthusiast/detailer market and for removing sanding marks after wet-sanding in the refinishing industry.

Before clear coat paints were introduced starting in the early 1980's for U.S. car manufactures, there were also non-diminishing abrasives used in paint care products that were old technology and based off large sized abrasives that while they cut fast they basically scoured the finish with swirls and scratches. Since clear coats were introduced this has forced most if not all company's that manufacture paint care products to bring up the quality of their abrasive technology.


What's the difference between DAT and SMAT

SMAT - Super Micro Abrasives Technology
DAT - Diminishing Abrasives Technology


DAT - Diminishing Abrasives Technology
Diminishing Abrasives are a category of abrasives that actually break down, pulverize and disintegrate into nothingness as you work them against the paint.

For example, a diminishing abrasive will start out a certain size and/or shape, then under pressure over time as they are worked against the paint they will actually breakdown or break apart. This means they start out aggressive and thus aggressively abrading the paint, as they are worked under pressure over time they begin to break down and as they breakdown their aggressiveness level is reduced to the point that when correctly worked they are completely broken down and all you have left is a mixture of spent or used-up diminishing abrasives and the carrying agent or base they were embodied in to start with. There's also a certain amount of removed paint in this resulting mixture.



SMAT - Super Micro Abrasives Technology
Super Micro Abrasives are as the name states microscopic in size and do not break down like diminishing abrasives. While they may not breakdown like a diminishing abrasive, there does come a point where there effectiveness falls off in performance, my guess is that this is a cumulative effect of the base formula they are embodied in dissipates while particles of removed paint build up in the residue adulterating or diluting their effectiveness.

Just to note, this same adulterating or diluting effect takes place with any abrasive product because as the abrasive remove small particles of paint, these small particle of paint join into the mixture thus changing the ratio or percentage of abrasives to the base formula.


What's the practical difference?
The biggest difference that I can share is this, with diminishing abrasive technology you MUST work the product until the abrasives have completely broken down to insure you don't leave any swirls in the paint. The reason for this is because if you stop buffing before the abrasives have completely broken down then they are still cutting or abrading the paint, thus leaving swirls in the paint.

This isn't really a problem because most diminishing abrasive products when used correctly will break down over a normal buffing cycle, (period of time and number of passes), to sufficiently break the abrasives down. It's usually only an issue for people new to car detailing who are learning as they go.


With Super Micro Abrasive Technology, theoretically, because the abrasives don't break down, or more specifically because the abrasives don't break down like diminishing abrasives break down, you can stop anywhere in the buffing cycle without leaving swirls caused by the abrasives. This would tend to make SMAT products more "Bubba-Proof" with an easier or more flat learning curve.

Because the abrasives don't break down like traditional diminishing abrasives, and from experience leave a very clear, scratch-free finish whether you're using the most aggressive or the most non-aggressive products, this new technology kind of throws a monkey wrench into the philosophy of,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"


Notice in the above statement I used the word aggressive, not abrasive.

This is how the statement is supposed to be written because there are more factors involved besides just the liquid chemical that contribute to how aggressive a process is, for example, your application material can be a HUGE factor as to how aggressive your choice of products are. I just point this out because I see others typing the above quote and often times they write,

"Use the least abrasive product to get the job done"


While the meaning is close, it's not exact as you can use products that are not abrasive at all to accomplish a task and still be following the philosophy.

But I digress... back to the topic at hand...


Why it's important to use the least aggressive product to get the job done?
The idea behind using the least aggressive product to get the job done is to remove the defect or defects while leaving the maximum amount of paint on the car.

For any Newbies reading this, anytime you remove a defect or defects like swirls, scratches Type II Water Spot Etchings, Type I Bird Dropping - Topical Stain Etchings, Sanding Marks after wet-sanding, you must remove some paint from the surface until you level the surface of the paint with the lowest depths of the defects you're trying to remove.

So removing below surface defects means removing paint.

That's normal and acceptable but the problem is paint is thin and from what I've seen over the years getting thinner. That means you and me don't have a lot of room for error and for decades, dating back to the Model T, the philosophy of,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

worked and made a lot of sense. Paint is thin and you only want to remove as little as as you have to in order to remove the defects so your paint will last over the service life of the car.

Now let me tie this train-of-thought together with SMAT products and why it throws a monkey wrench into traditional thinking.

Because the abrasives used in SMAT products don't break down in the same way diminishing abrasives break down and tend to leave a scratch-free, high gloss finish, (no matter which product you're using), this means you apply them and then only work them till the defects are gone.

Once the defects are gone, (and you visually see this as you work an area), you then stop working the product and wipe off the residue and move to the next step or a new section.

It's this ability to stop when the defects have been removed instead of stopping after the diminishing abrasive have broken down that throws a wrench into the old tried and true philosophy of using the least aggressive product to get the job done because theoretically you can start with the most aggressive product and because you stop after the defects have been removed you achieve the same goal as you would have achieved by using the least aggressive product to get the job done but you can usually do it faster and more effectivley... AND you leave the same amount of paint on the car.

With diminishing abrasives, it could be that you've removed the defects but if you removed them before the abrasives fully broke down, you must continue to work the products to avoid leaving swirls in the paint because the abrasives are still abrading, this means you're removing paint you don't have to remove. At least that's the theory I'm presenting in this article.


Make sense?


IF not, then chew on the ideas presented above and if you're still confused then post your questions to the forum! :D


I'd like to stress that this isn't a huge matter because the amount of paint you're removing with either approach is usually nominal in the big picture of things and both SMAT products and DAT products are both tried and true products that will get the job done safely, especially compared to the types of abrasive products that were historically used on car paint until clear coats became the new norm.

Here's an overview of SMAT Products, keep in mind that some of these products are not targeted at the majority of people that will read this article, that is enthusiasts and detailers, some of these products are formulated for and targeted to the refinishing industry. Other products are targeted directly at the enthusiast of Consumer Market. Below I will address each of these markets.


Refinishing Industry - Body Shops - Places that cars are re-painted
Basically in more layman terms you would say the collision industry which is made up of Body Shops, whether they are independently owned, like my brother's shop in Astoria, Oregon, Phillips Custom Colors, or a Franchise like Maaco or Earl Sheib, or a body shop inside a New Car Dealership like Galpin Ford.

The re-finishing industry is anywhere cars bodies are repaired after an accident and the re-painted. Body shop environments, or fresh paint environments, require paint care products that are what we call "Body Shop Safe", that means there are no ingredients in the formulas that could cause surface adhesion problems when new or fresh paint is sprayed onto the car's exterior panels. Products for the refinishing industry are usually aggressive compounds and finishing polishes as these are the types of products needed to remove sanding marks after wet-sanding and then polish the paint to a customer-pleasing, high gloss.

For comparison,

Reconditioning Industry - Detail Shops and Mobile Detailers - Car Washes
Paint polishing work done at brick and mortar detail shops, or by Mobile Detailers or at Car Washes is referred to as reconditioning as it usually involves not only the paint but also cleaning the interior, trunk, engine compartment and all aspects of a vehicle.

Paint polishing performed in the reconditioning industry can be categorized into two basic types of work and that would be,

  • Production Detailing
  • Show Car Detailing
Production detailing will usually mean the entire car inside and out is cleaned, waxed and/or dressed. For this type of work a one-step cleaner/wax is generally used on the paint to restore shine and protection.

Show Car Detailing is where the car is divided into segments and each segment gets a dedicated process to bring the car's appearance up to show car quality. For the paint polishing segment, most detailers will perform a multiple-step process which will take a car's paint to its maximum potential.


Consumer Market - Do-it-yourselfers, Weekend Warriors - Serious Car Enthusiasts, Hobby Detailers
The Consumer Market is pretty diverse but to keep this short and sweet, this market would be made-up of primarily of the average consumer or car owner that wants to take ownership of the car washing and waxing maintenance of their vehicles. Products for this market must be incredibly safe to use for beginners and be easy to work with via primarily hand application but also be able to be applied using entry level buffers and polishers.

:)
 
When your new pads arrive, start by doing a Test Spot using the least aggressive pad and product approach, for example instead of starting out with M105 and a cutting pad, see if you can remove the defects using M105 with a polishing pad. Making a small tweak like this can mean finishing out nicer and making the next steps faster and easier.


To check your work, see this article...

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results



Once you dial in a process that gives you the results you want then simply duplicate the process over the rest of the car working panel by panel.


:xyxthumbs:
 
Geez, I never thought of 105 with a polishing pad. I wish you could have seen the light bulb that just went off over my head. Thank goodness the holograms I found were nothing like the examples, but it just irked me nonetheless. I did do a test spot first and it looked pretty good to me. Could it be cause the lighting I have is maybe insufficient to show the holograms. I have the builders grade weak over head lights, then just one halogen. If going over the car with a Brinkman, should I be able to locate the faintest of holgrams or is that going to pretty much require sunlight?
 
I did do a test spot first and it looked pretty good to me.

Could it be cause the lighting I have is maybe insufficient to show the holograms.

Could be... the sun is the best light to see these types of defects, it can be a hassle moving your car in and out of a garage, that's where a hand held light like the Brinkmann comes in handy.

The M105 with a polishing pad should remove anything that is shallow...

If the car is important to you and you want it to really look good then you should consider following the M105 with a less aggressive product and pad.

Everyone's criteria is different,

One man's ceiling is another man's floor...


:D
 
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