Post Detail Question: Paint / Clear Coat: 2008 Lexus GS350

I have to agree with GKSR, your first problem was the customer telling you her main concern, the thing that bothered her the most and that was....rough paint.

You should of never put together a package that didn't include what she was most concerned about. Because no matter how good you washed, cleaned etc, that wasn't her main concern she hired you for smooth paint.

Now I know you want to say she didn't pay for that service, and I 100% agree we should be paid for everything we do.

However the customer isn't a professional she put trust in you that you was going to give her what she wanted, and you as a pro should of known, that it wasn't going to come off with the washing step.

Next time when you find out customers main concern! You find a way to fit it into the budget or they are going to be un happy.

We all had our fair share of tough customers.

I had one guy tell me he doesn't want the outside done no outside no outside, just inside, no outside no outside, I gave him a price, after I was done with the inside and came out, he walked up to me rubbing his hands together saying

"So when are you going to start sudsing her up"

(Witch him saying that right away is a clear indication that he knew we did not agree for the price I was going to wash the car, because if he was expecting that service he never would of asked)

I told him we agreed that we weren't going to wash the car for the price I gave him, he instantly got crabby and sad faced (keeping it pg13)
He was nice the whole way giving me sodas water etc, walking them out and bringing.them to me.

He brought me out a water and left it on the stairs because he was mad LOL.

what did I do ? It clearly wasn't my fault he begged me not to wash the car, I gave it a waterless wash with my spray bottle took me 10 mins, and put dressing on his tires.

He came outside smiling like a child ready to dance, he then tipped me 30$ more and he gave me his cousins car to do.

Because I made him happy. And that wasn't even him telling me the outside was his main concern.

Customers get funky, like GSKR said even If it took you 15 mins to clay I would have done it , she did tip you as well.

This business is all about over delivering and doing extra.

Learn from your mistakes.
 
vanev said:
My plan was to do something like that.
The main problem was the time factor more than anything else, on this specific day.
In this case, the customer and I were on the third attempt to get the detail in due to previous weather related cancellations.

I like to start a detail at 7am, or 8am at the latest.
In this case, she was not willing to start that early.
So, I could not begin until 9am.
I had a night job I had to be at by 6pm, which meant I needed to be leaving by 4:30pm.
Had I had more time, I would have been willing to offer more services to make a happy customer.

The interior of this car took the bulk of my time to complete.
The wheels, tires, and wheel wells were in bad shape, and I spent time on that.



I agree with you.
The issue was not that the customer or myself disagreed on the course of action.
We both agreed the car needed a complete decontamination, polish, and wax.
If nothing else, the exterior needed to be clayed.
The customer was simply not willing to pay at the price I was willing to do the work for.

I was till willing to clay the car.
The time factor on this day was the main obstacle for allowing that to happen.
Click to expand...
Maybe time for a pressure washer,will be way quicker doing the prep work.I give you credit for rinseless I couldn't do it.
 
Joe@NextLevelDetail said:
I have to agree with GKSR, your first problem was the customer telling you her main concern, the thing that bothered her the most and that was....rough paint.

You should of never put together a package that didn't include what she was most concernKimIed about. Because no matter how good you washed, cleaned etc, that wasn't her main concern she hired you for smooth paint.

Now I know you want to say she didn't pay for that service, and I 100% agree we should be paid for everything we do.

However the customer isn't a professional she put trust in you that you was going to give her what she wanted, and you as a pro should of known, that it wasn't going to come off with the washing step.

Next time when you find out customers main concern! You find a way to fit it into the budget or they are going to be un happy.

We all had our fair share of tough customers.

I had one guy tell me he doesn't want the outside done no outside no outside, just inside, no outside no outside, I gave him a price, after I was done with the inside and came out, he walked up to me rubbing his hands together saying

"So when are you going to start sudsing her up"

(Witch him saying that right away is a clear indication that he knew we did not agree for the price I was going to wash the car, because if he was expecting that service he never would of asked)

I told him we agreed that we weren't going to wash the car for the price I gave him, he instantly got crabby and sad faced (keeping it pg13)
He was nice the whole way giving me sodas water etc, walking them out and bringing.them to me.

He brought me out a water and left it on the stairs because he was mad LOL.

what did I do ? It clearly wasn't my fault he begged me not to wash the car, I gave it a waterless wash with my spray bottle took me 10 mins, and put dressing on his tires.

He came outside smiling like a child ready to dance, he then tipped me 30$ more and he gave me his cousins car to do.

Because I made him happy. And that wasn't even him telling me the outside was his main concern.

Customers get funky, like GSKR said even If it took you 15 mins to clay I would have done it , she did tip you as well.

This business is all about over delivering and doing extra.

Learn from your mistakes.
Click to expand...

I did not put together a package for the customer.
The customer chose the entry level package that I offer.
I actually provided the next detail package up the price scale, at the entry level price.
I also include a free follow up maintenance detail.
I am mobile, so I will travel to the customer location.
That is something to keep in mind for that expense is on me.

I agree with you in principle on pretty much everything you said.
I think for all the business courtesy one can extend to a customer, it has to be guided by reason.
There is a time and place for everything.
A time to take the hit, and a time to stand your ground.

This is a business, not a charity.
You have to balance trying to earn a new customer
without over extending.
You give too much away, you really then just devalue your own services.
You also devalue the detail industry as a whole.

Detailing is a genuine trade skill.
It is a genuine profession that restores, maintains, and even adds value to one's auto investment.
It requires an education, technical skill level, and a personal investment to purchase the necessary tools and machines.

So, I don't mind paying my dues and doing what it takes to earn business.
You don't, however, chase success.
You build it, and you earn it.
 
The whole promblem with this thread is not about delivering what the customer wanted,but rather a time constraint on a dirty 9 year old car.The rinseless wash has to go to much time just to prep the car,his intentions were to do the best job he could do with the tools and time he had and compensation for his efforts.Its easy to say go out and spend 3k on a decent mobile trailer,but if your gonna do this gig for a while then somehow try to fix the promblem for quickness and more profit.9 to 4 is just way to long for production detailing.
 
I'm not bashing here but rather trying to help,please get rid of that free maintenance follow up,your hurting yourself and gaining nothing from it.
 
I gleaned over this thread... both Joe and GSKR make great points.

First off, I'm not sure if you did a VIF or not?? Perhaps if you did, it may have helped. I use mine as a guide through the explanation of service to a potential customer. It's a great tool if you learn how to use it and modify it. See below:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ike-phillips-vif-vehicle-inspection-form.html

I always take a spray bottle of D114 and a MF with me to do an inspection, along with my Flex Light and Defelsko Paint Meter and baggie.

I've modified Mike's VIF form a bit to add in my paint thickness readings and a grading scale (which I took from Mike Phillips
Book, "Complete Guide To a Show Car Shine". and grade the paint on a scale of 1 - 12.

1. Show Car Quality:________
2. Excellent Condition:________
3. Good Condition:________
4. Mildly Neglected:________
5. Severely Neglected:________
6. Horrendous Swirls - Caused By The Misuse Of A Rotary Buffer
7. Extreme Oxidation:________
8. Extreme Orange Peel:________
9. Unstable:________
10. Beginning Clearcoat Failure:________
11. Clearcoat Failure:________
12. Past The Point Of No Return:________

After finding out about the car (show car, DD or garage queen), wiping a section, using the flex light, doing the baggie test and grading the paint, I tell the customer "This is what package I recommend in order to get your paint from Grade X up to Grade 3, 2, or 1. Anything less, and you will NOT be happy.

If they accept my recommendation and package, I ask them kindly for their initials for the acceptance of the quote. On the VIF, I mark all my findings and defects and when they pick the car up, I go over it, and ask them kindly to sign the VIF. Now the burden is on me. They heard what I had to say, agreed to the job, price and time frame. Now the proof has to be in the pudding...

If during the inspection and quote they say, I didn't want to spend that much money, or that's too much money, I recommend them to someone else (whom I've established a relationship with, at the local car wash) that does tunnel wash, clay and a quick rotary with cleaner wax for 1/2 the price of my AIO package.

When you go to a car dealership for service, they take your "complaint or problem", work up a quote with their recommendation, then then have you sign or initial the quote of acceptance. If it turns out to be more, they contact you, gain your approval and continue to work on the car.

This is no different... As you develop your business, as I am mine, these are things that you have to consider. Is it time consuming?? Yeah... it is. Now you know why dealerships have software systems and Service Reps...

Hope this helps.
 
vanev said:
I agree with you.
The issue was not that the customer or myself disagreed on the course of action.
We both agreed the car needed a complete decontamination, polish, and wax.
If nothing else, the exterior needed to be clayed.
The customer was simply not willing to pay at the price I was willing to do the work for.

I was till willing to clay the car.
The time factor on this day was the main obstacle for allowing that to happen.
Click to expand...

This is where action is more important than words. The issue was cost, but most times the cost concern is overcome when the consumer feels the difference.

A quick claying with a nanoskin towel only takes a few minutes. Do you happen to have one of these in your arsenal? I find these great for a quick touch up, especially for quick detail jobs.

Nanoskin AutoScrub Fine Grade Wash Mitt
 
vanev said:
I did not put together a package for the customer.
The customer chose the entry level package that I offer.
I actually provided the next detail package up the price scale, at the entry level price.
I also include a free follow up maintenance detail.
I am mobile, so I will travel to the customer location.
That is something to keep in mind for that expense is on me.

I agree with you in principle on pretty much everything you said.
I think for all the business courtesy one can extend to a customer, it has to be guided by reason.
There is a time and place for everything.
A time to take the hit, and a time to stand your ground.

This is a business, not a charity.
You have to balance trying to earn a new customer
without over extending.
You give too much away, you really then just devalue your own services.
You also devalue the detail industry as a whole.

Detailing is a genuine trade skill.
It is a genuine profession that restores, maintains, and even adds value to one's auto investment.
It requires an education, technical skill level, and a personal investment to purchase the necessary tools and machines.

So, I don't mind paying my dues and doing what it takes to earn business.
You don't, however, chase success.
You build it, and you earn it.
Click to expand...

You state that this is a business and not a charity and I agree with you, however the free follow up wash when your mobile what would you call that ? Them coming to you at a fixed location is one thing, but packing up going in your truck and washing is alot harder and more costly then taking 10 mins to clay a car.

You said to not chase success and build it.

Well keeping customers happy is building it.

Her saying she wanted her paint smooth, you should of explained to her that the package she is choosing is not going to make her paint smooth, however we can do package 1 and I can add clay for x amount of dollars, she probably would of said yes being that was her main concern.

I only offer free follow up washes when I do a paint coating, and I am at a fixed location, I also take that follow up wash as a teaching experience to teach my customer how to properly wash the car.

Or offer free follow up washes on a more expensive package , you shouldn't offer free washes on your entry level packages, especially being mobile, time, money, effort.

You have to understand, I do not work for free or promote working for free, I am all about being properly compensated.

I however can't see how you will give a follow up wash free, but disagree for claying the car for 15 mins.

Please do not think I am bashing you, I am trying to help you so this does not happend in the future.

Next time ask the customers main concern, when they tell you, offer them a package if they say to much I wanna be in this xxx range.

You tell them your not going to get what you want with that package and then you try to resolve the difference and get the job.

You have to understand this

A happy customer = customer for life.

If they call you one every 2 weeks, say 60-100 a wash that's money every month.

Instead of getting 150 from then once and never hearing from them again.

Not to mention if they recommend you to there friends and family.

That is why if it only takes 10-15 mins to make your customer hooked and keep coming back , it's not charity it's hooking them with your quality work and them never wanting to even think about going through a automatic car wash.

A customer for life is more profitable then a one time customer.
 
GSKR said:
Maybe time for a pressure washer,will be way quicker doing the prep work.I give you credit for rinseless I couldn't do it.
Click to expand...

GSKR said:
The whole promblem with this thread is not about delivering what the customer wanted,but rather a time constraint on a dirty 9 year old car.The rinseless wash has to go to much time just to prep the car,his intentions were to do the best job he could do with the tools and time he had and compensation for his efforts.Its easy to say go out and spend 3k on a decent mobile trailer,but if your gonna do this gig for a while then somehow try to fix the promblem for quickness and more profit.9 to 4 is just way to long for production detailing.
Click to expand...

GSKR said:
I'm not bashing here but rather trying to help,please get rid of that free maintenance follow up,your hurting yourself and gaining nothing from it.
Click to expand...
I don't think you are bashing at all.
You are giving your honest opinion in a direct manner.
That is perfectly ok and I respect that.
I just ask that you be careful to fully read the statements and not skim over them before commenting.
Like I previously said, I highly regard your opinion and appreciate your insight.

In regards to the rinseless wash approach and my inventory of tools and machines, it is getting me by for now.
I do intend to add a new pressure washer to the inventory as well as a water tank, as well as any other tool that can assist with the job.
Right now, it is purely a matter of logistics and economics.
Right now I am working out of my car.
I intend to purchase a van.
Until I have the van, there is only so much space in the car for all my equipment.
I also have to prioritize and there are other items I need more right now, such as a good generator.

In regards to the free follow up maintenance detail, this is proving to be a big winner for me.
My business has increased and interest has grown since implementing this.
This is really proving to be one of the smarter decisions I have made for all kinds of reasons.
For any new detailer starting out, I highly recommend this approach.
It may no work for everybody, but it is a real winner for me.
 
paul_g said:
I gleaned over this thread... both Joe and GSKR make great points.

First off, I'm not sure if you did a VIF or not?? Perhaps if you did, it may have helped. I use mine as a guide through the explanation of service to a potential customer. It's a great tool if you learn how to use it and modify it. See below:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ike-phillips-vif-vehicle-inspection-form.html

I always take a spray bottle of D114 and a MF with me to do an inspection, along with my Flex Light and Defelsko Paint Meter and baggie.

I've modified Mike's VIF form a bit to add in my paint thickness readings and a grading scale (which I took from Mike Phillips
Book, "Complete Guide To a Show Car Shine". and grade the paint on a scale of 1 - 12.

1. Show Car Quality:________
2. Excellent Condition:________
3. Good Condition:________
4. Mildly Neglected:________
5. Severely Neglected:________
6. Horrendous Swirls - Caused By The Misuse Of A Rotary Buffer
7. Extreme Oxidation:________
8. Extreme Orange Peel:________
9. Unstable:________
10. Beginning Clearcoat Failure:________
11. Clearcoat Failure:________
12. Past The Point Of No Return:________

After finding out about the car (show car, DD or garage queen), wiping a section, using the flex light, doing the baggie test and grading the paint, I tell the customer "This is what package I recommend in order to get your paint from Grade X up to Grade 3, 2, or 1. Anything less, and you will NOT be happy.

If they accept my recommendation and package, I ask them kindly for their initials for the acceptance of the quote. On the VIF, I mark all my findings and defects and when they pick the car up, I go over it, and ask them kindly to sign the VIF. Now the burden is on me. They heard what I had to say, agreed to the job, price and time frame. Now the proof has to be in the pudding...

If during the inspection and quote they say, I didn't want to spend that much money, or that's too much money, I recommend them to someone else (whom I've established a relationship with, at the local car wash) that does tunnel wash, clay and a quick rotary with cleaner wax for 1/2 the price of my AIO package.

When you go to a car dealership for service, they take your "complaint or problem", work up a quote with their recommendation, then then have you sign or initial the quote of acceptance. If it turns out to be more, they contact you, gain your approval and continue to work on the car.

This is no different... As you develop your business, as I am mine, these are things that you have to consider. Is it time consuming?? Yeah... it is. Now you know why dealerships have software systems and Service Reps...

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Hi Paul.
Thank you for your input.

I am familiar with the VIF and do like to use them.
I have not utilized such a form every single time, but do agree that I should.
I also like to customize the VIF as well.

In this specific case, the customer was the sister of a friend's wife.
The customer and I also had two in depth phone calls as well as multiple text messages discussing the vehicle.
We also both agreed on the best course of action towards delivering what the customer wanted.
The challenge was the customer was simply not willing to pay an acceptable price that I was willing to do the work for.
At the same time, the customer wanted me specifically to detail her car.

The most the customer was willing to pay was my entry level detail package price of $125.00.
This price does not include a complete decontamination that includes a claying process.
I still provided a higher price point service and the car looked great inside and out.
The customer received a higher level of service than what she paid for, and has a free follow up maintenance detail on the way.

Had the time factor not been an issue on this particular day, I most likely would have clayed the car anyway.
It really just was not logistically possible to make that happen.
 
@Vanev. Do you use a clay towel/clay mitt? Or do you literally mean "clay"?
 
GSKR said:
The whole promblem with this thread is not about delivering what the customer wanted,but rather a time constraint on a dirty 9 year old car.The rinseless wash has to go to much time just to prep the car,his intentions were to do the best job he could do with the tools and time he had and compensation for his efforts.Its easy to say go out and spend 3k on a decent mobile trailer,but if your gonna do this gig for a while then somehow try to fix the problem for quickness and more profit.9 to 4 is just way to long for production detailing.
Click to expand...

GSKR said:
I'm not bashing here but rather trying to help,please get rid of that free maintenance follow up,your hurting yourself and gaining nothing from it.
Click to expand...

And you yourself say:
This is a business, not a charity.
You have to balance trying to earn a new customer
without over extending.
You give too much away, you really then just devalue your own services.
You also devalue the detail industry as a whole.

But you are doing exactly that by giving a "free" follow up detail.

Also how long did this take? 9am -4pm

7 hours? / $125 = $17.85 per hour?

I base my jobs on $50.00 an hour.

You have to draw the line with your customer, whether they are related or friends of families etc. You need to get paid what you skills are worth or send them to the detail factory down the road.

My friends and family deal is $250.00 one step correction with second step LSP applied. Wash, wheels, NO INTERIOR, I don't touch the interior. I do the door jambs etc. No vacuum, etc.

$125.00 come on down to Tampa and I''l hire you to do my friends cars as a sub contractor :buffing:
 
Eldorado2k said:
@Vanev. Do you use a clay towel/clay mitt? Or do you literally mean "clay"?
Click to expand...

I use clay.
I do not currently own the mitts or towels.
I have used the towels before, but that was immediately followed by a polishing.

My experience and view point on the claying process is different than what I read on most forums and in social media.
Not all paint and clear coat responds the same to the claying process.
You have to be careful to not mar the paint in a stand alone claying process, that is not immediately followed by polishing.

The idea of a 15 minute stand alone claying of the car without a follow up polish just does not work for me.
My general rule of thumb is that in a stand alone claying process of a vehicle, additional time needs to be available in the event a polish proves necessary as a direct result of the claying process.

You just never know for certain how the result will turn out.
I take my time and am very careful in a stand alone claying process.
Better safe than sorry is the approach I take and works for me.
 
I totally agree with what u said. Personally I'd never clay w/o some sort of correction step.
 
vanev said:
I use clay.
Click to expand...


Bingo. Now we know why it's not easy to include clay as a freebie😁
I use alot of claylube [I used a whole 32oz. bottle of D114@1:128 on a Camry today] and have never had the clay towel marr. And I've Never used the fine grade towel. Med. Grade Towel or bust!
 
Eldorado2k said:
Bingo. Now we know why it's not easy to include clay as a freebie😁
I use alot of claylube [I used a whole 32oz. bottle of D114@1:128 on a Camry today] and have never had the clay towel marr. And I've Never used the fine grade towel. Med. Grade Towel or bust!
Click to expand...

I will look more into this.
I have read so many mixed reviews, I thought I would put these on the back burner for testing.
The clay towels I did use belonged to another detailer, and the vehicle was immediately polished.
That was his gig, I was just helping out that day.
So, I did not get a chance to see the stand alone result from the clay towel.

custmsprty said:
And you yourself say:
This is a business, not a charity.
You have to balance trying to earn a new customer
without over extending.
You give too much away, you really then just devalue your own services.
You also devalue the detail industry as a whole.

But you are doing exactly that by giving a "free" follow up detail.

Also how long did this take? 9am -4pm

7 hours? / $125 = $17.85 per hour?

I base my jobs on $50.00 an hour.

You have to draw the line with your customer, whether they are related or friends of families etc. You need to get paid what you skills are worth or send them to the detail factory down the road.

My friends and family deal is $250.00 one step correction with second step LSP applied. Wash, wheels, NO INTERIOR, I don't touch the interior. I do the door jambs etc. No vacuum, etc.

$125.00 come on down to Tampa and I''l hire you to do my friends cars as a sub contractor :buffing:
Click to expand...

I only support and encourage other detailer's and their success.

I am not new to professional detailing, just new to it as my full time job and primary source of income.
Rates/prices are based on many factors.
I have to be realistic based on my local economy, target demographic, and my prices compared to other local detailers.
A day with a detail scheduled and money coming in at $17.85/hour is better than $0 coming in that day.

In regards to the time factor, that has more to do with logistics and equipment more than anything else.
The time factor will work itself out.
In the process, it is reasonable to project profits to rise as the time factor decreases, and rate increases over time.

As for the free follow up maintenance detail, this is proving to be a real winner for my business.
It fits my business model, it works for my customers, and it works for me.
This one is staying around for as long as it continues to prove useful.
 
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