Price on Paint correction!

[allenk4]

You'r exactly right. I did show her. I have a steady flow of carsQUOTE]

I sure hope she can find another qualified Detailer in her area

How do you think the conversation with, what sounds like a large office, went after you left the msg you did?

Whether, the Customer I right or wrong...they are always right. A disappointed Customer will tell 10 people. A satisfied Customer will tell 2

Do you really believe that you handled this the absolute best way possible?

I certainly doubt that she expected you to wait around

She probably did not know your circumstances

You have no idea what may have come up in her life

Have you ever had to cancel?


Just questions to lend some perspective

 

[HUMP DIESEL]

I agree with Bob that giving the Customer a quote by the hour could turn off a lot of people

If they make $20 an hour, why do you "deserve" $60 per hour

BTW, if you are able to get $60 an hour and consistently work 40 hours...you will be making $120k a year gross!

I don't follow this logic here, I make less per hour than a doctor or a dentist. Why do I expect to pay them more? They are skilled professionals doing a task that I am not qualified to do. By your logic, the person counting widgets for minimum wage should not expect the guys building a house to make any more they should.

HUMP

 

[FTD]

FTD -
Sounds like you are way far up the road on this and Im glad to hear you have lots of potential Clients waiting..

There will be nothing better in my experience, than word-of-mouth for getting your name out there.

I use that more than anything and it pretty much takes care of itself...

A full on - everything perfect - not 1 speck of dirt inside or outside the vehicle, engine, engine compartment, under the hood, all jambs, under the seats, between the seats and console, entire trunk, trunk mat removed and spare out, cleaned, spare well cleaned, perfect paint with a really good LSP, perfect glass inside and out, no scratches on all plastic tail lights, etc., takes around 20 hours often more for 1 person up here..

And the average price for this is easily double your pricing above..
The more finicky higher end vehicles and that price doubles again or more..

You will find your place just fine - actually you Have already found it and are just putting the details all together ! Great !!!

Remember - You are in charge, You have extreme Confidence that you are - You have gone over it all a zillion times in your mind, You constantly think while you are doing this, how to make it better, faster, Without sacrificing Quality..

You have studied each Client carefully, and know what each Client wants and needs and you go out there and Exceed their expectations..

It is a personal experience for each one - and not a Production - in - and - out - here you go -

You Set the Client's Expectations as soon as you have all the information from them, looked carefully at the vehicle/s inside and out as appropriately, and then you go exceed each and every expectation set..

You kept the Client up to date if they wanted it using something easy for them to use - Text messaging, Email, etc., You dont want to interrupt them, and you dont really want to hand hold them completely unless they really want that.. You have a big job waiting out there to do and you need time to complete it perfectly..

You have a perfectly clean Shop and clean floor with not one Detailing tool or product, etc., anywhere to be seen, when you bring the Client in to see their Baby, and look over your perfect work in very good lighting overhead and from the side, so they can look everywhere and see your perfect work !

It has to be a Shop -show stage as much as possible for them because this is Their time - Their Baby..

They will be so grateful and happy that You Care for their car that much, they will tell all their friends and professional acquaintances..

And You are doing all of this because You really Care !!!

And once this all starts, in my experiences, you will never have a day off if you choose to work all year long..

Good luck on your new venture !
Dan F

SO glad to see someone who shares the same love for detailing as I. In my head I have circled around and around the things I can offer to make my business unique. The truth is, there are no detailed detailers around. I move fast because I had to in order to make money back in the day. If I get a client, like the one I had a month ago, I take my time.

I detailed a brand new Stingray, black. Dealership porters ruined the finish with hazing and holograms so bad I couldn't believe the car was a month old. The owner was with me a mojority of the time because I did it at his house, and he said absolutely no pictures. I was bummed because this thing came out so good he paid me $200 over my quote.

I did a light polish with 205, and it did little. So 105 did some, but 3M made it perfect again. I took about 16 hours to complete the outside 110%. I sealed it with Chemicals guys jet seal, and put 2 coats of caranuba wax. I did a water shed test, and the paint wouldnt stay wet. Just by his reaction, I could see the kid in his eyes again.

I left the inside alone per his request, but I took off each tire, clayed the barrel, and sealed them. Polished the outside and waxed them twice. I went all out on this car, I even put jetseal on his wheel wells to help prevent dirt sticking. He watched me work, and talked to me. He was not very skilled in car care, but was as avid about them as I. The stingray holds a special place in my heart because my father had a 66 427 turbojet stingray, and that was the car I learned on. 1 Stage lacquer paint baby!.

I'm in it to make money, but I am also in it to make an honest profit. I don't cut corners, and I am sure I have a lot to learn in the years ahead. I am used to doing things quickly to satisfy the customer, but I am troubled by the fact that if I say its going to take 20 hours it will deter business. I wouldn't spend any less on a 6 figure car to begin with. I guess it really depends on the car, customer, and what they want done.

 

[allenk4]

I don't follow this logic here, I make less per hour than a doctor or a dentist. Why do I expect to pay them more? They are skilled professionals doing a task that I am not qualified to do. By your logic, the person counting widgets for minimum wage should not expect the guys building a house to make any more they should.

HUMP

My point could have been constructed better

What I was pointing out is that by breaking it out to an hourly rate, some potential Customers may shy away

Telling someone what tasks are included in your basic package at $150 is perceived differently than telling them you charge $50 per hour

Everyone thinks they are underpaid and everyone else is over paid

A lot of Customers do not believe that Detailing is a skilled art

Ask a few people, that you don't know, what they think a Detailer makes per hour

Until I got into detailing, I thought the $23 basic wash was a good value as does 95% of the population

Most Customers have done what we do, on some basic level. They have washed a car. They have not done Surgery, not even a minor one. The perceived value of what we enjoy doing is low for most Consumers


The basic "task" of detailing is not difficult and requires minimal skill. If you were standing over the shoulder of any reasonably intelligent person and held their hand thru each of the processes, they could physically do what we do...wash, clay, vacuum, wax, even polish paint

Finding Customers who already appreciate the difference between Car Washing and Detailing is the difficult part. Even more difficult is convincing an existing Customer the value of the added expertise to get from 80% to 95%

The great thing about Detailing is that no one can tell you how much to charge or how many hours you have to work. I think Mike Phillips gets around $120 per hour.

It will always be Supply & Demand. If you are booked solid...raise your prices as high as possible...eventually the two lines will cross, hopefully, very high on the graph


Again, the point was; pricing by the hour can be delicate

 

[FUNX650]

I ask myself:
•Will the "Detailing Profession" ever be perceived...by the general populace...as being in the same echelon as skilled/semi-skilled occupational classifications?
•I'll say, currently: No; and not in the foreseeable future!

So...
•How will a Detailer, by the charging of a certain given $/rate---(that's deemed, by the masses, to be way out of line with the wages earned by "Car and Equipment Washers")---positively effectuate the perception that their occupational choice is no longer unskilled?
•Don't know about anyone else...
But that's a "no dice" ruling for me!

Something I'll probably never fully understand:
•Whether it's dealing with people in Skilled, Semi-Skilled, or Un-Skilled Professions...
-Why does the mantra seem to have to always be:
"I can perform a task that you can't; so, the price I quoted is the price of doing business with me: Take It Or Leave It!...


Bob

 

[WA.Detailer]

FTD -

Glad we can help !

Loved the story of the new Corvette.. They have very hard paint and you found that out.
Sounds like it came out fabulous ! Great job !

The majority of my Clients dont want pics either.. I dont know why, but they respectfully decline and thats fine.. I have seen a correlation though - the more wealthy, the less they want any publicity, etc..

You should see what Bill Gates goes through to keep his stuff super stealthy... But at some point, you just have to ... Too many crazies...

They will still be awesome Referrals for you when they go to the Country Club for breakfast..

It will take hours to do a complete, perfect, Detail, and looking at your recent experience - 16 hours on the outside, hopefully you can do the rest in 8 hours or so, and there you are - 24 hours, or a couple days, if you want to have a normal life..

They will not mind - I promise you ! They are smart enough to know that Perfection takes time...

It took God 6000 years to create this Earth ! And they rested on the 7th day.. And it was Perfect !!!

What I have done for some Clients who get into a pinch in my neighborhood where we know everyone, is sometimes, I will loan them my perfectly clean Black Grand Cherokee for the time their expensive vehicle is in my garage... A little risky? Perhaps, but nothing has never gone bad by doing this..

There IS money to be made but the amount at the end of the year, after expenses, may be alarming for awhile..

Once you get a good House Account at one of the places that sells all the products you need, and get a good inventory stock, this will help, but the other expenses that dont change could be a challenge so really work this out with a calculator, or Excel, etc., and get an idea of what projections could be and see if that will be good for the beginning..

At the end of the day, for me anyway, because I was around awesome car guys - my Dad for starters, all my life, I early on developed this love for all things automotive and finally settled on doing my part to help make America Beautiful - 1 Car at a Time..

It is more of a labor of love and that is my big driver always..
Not many would share that opinion, but it really is mine..

And you know, your Clients will be able to tell.. And that will always bring them back..

You will learn how to communicate this business to them - what you are going to do, or did on their vehicle - at their particular level - and they will so appreciate that you do this...

They will all be different and you will become a student of human behavior, body language, etc.. This is all really good stuff to know..

Keep moving forward - not backward !
DanF

 

[Kengo123]

So...
•How will a Detailer, by the charging of a certain given $/rate---(that's deemed, by the masses, to be way out of line with the wages earned by "Car and Equipment Washers")---positively effectuate the perception that their occupational choice is no longer unskilled?
•Don't know about anyone else...
But that's a "no dice" ruling for me!

I agree that most people will never view detailing as skilled. BUT I think the point to charge a "high" hourly rate is to target people who already view it as skilled. I doubt they want the tunnel wash detail crew to touch their car, and some of those places are charging $300 plus for a full detail.

I think charging more is fair if your work is better. If the target market can't tell the difference, then your work might not be as good as you think, or your target market is off.

I don't think that it's your responsibility as a business owner to play superman and change everyone's perception on detailing, but rather find the right customers, and being fair to them and yourself

 

[FUNX650]

I agree that most people will never view detailing as skilled. BUT I think the point to charge a "high" hourly rate is to target people who already view it as skilled. I doubt they want the tunnel wash detail crew to touch their car, and some of those places are charging $300 plus for a full detail.

I think charging more is fair if your work is better. If the target market can't tell the difference, then your work might not be as good as you think, or your target market is off.

I don't think that it's your responsibility as a business owner to play superman and change everyone's perception on detailing, but rather find the right customers, and

being fair to them and yourself

Some people may feel that by charging high hourly wages for detailing-services rendered...(when compared to the prevailing local and State detailing-wage rates where they reside)...to an unsuspecting, even naive public, is being "fair" to them, and themselves.

I've read on this forum where many people believe that Dealerships, in some way or another: Overcharge the unsuspecting public for their Sealants/Coatings-schemes.

However:
Neither of the above "fair practices" are my cup of tea.


Bob

 

[FTD]

Which brings me to my next point, Lets say you have two customers.

Both are in love with their cars the same. They want them to be well maintained, and looking new every week. The first has a 2011 Porsche 911 carerra, the other has a 2013 Toyota corolla. Two drastically different cars.

They both want a full detail consisting of the full Monte of polishing and finishing touches inside and out.

DO you charge more for the Porsche because it is more expensive, and delicate than the corolla? or do you charge the same?, in the end paint is paint, and being that one clear coat is softer than the other, you will use better products on the Porsche than the Corolla in order to produce better results. Remember, each customer is looking at their car the same.

What do you guys think? Morally justified? or crooked business?

 

[WA.Detailer]

FTD -

The relatively easy Corolla unless it has been lived in and thoroughly trashed, is going to give you more time to spend on the sometimes finicky Porsche..

The Porsche is going to require more expensive chemicals to bring it all back to "new" again and has a lot more leather sometimes..

I also use lots of Steam (VX5000) and it is incredible, but you still need to come back and recondition the Leather..
I know, there are those that say it will never need it, etc., but 99% of my Clients have wanted to either smell a good leather smell, or not smell any leather smell.. That is why you have at least 3 different leather conditioners..

Cleaning the engine compartment is going to be harder sometimes, if its leaking oil, etc..
Working around the different rear Spoilers or having to remove it will take more time and you have to be so careful that you dont scratch the paint doing this..
The Paint in general may have been "lovingly rubbed" improperly for years and will need much more precise correction and perfection..

The Boot area may have been treated badly, the Battery may have leaked, and they will want this perfect too..

In conclusion, the German car will always cost more for you to do, unless it is a total perfectly preserved, etc., Porsche, and I have yet to find one perfectly preserved (untouched improperly by well-meaning, misguided hands)..

What I strive for with each vehicle be it the Corolla or the last of the aircooled 1997 911 Targa's, is to restore all of it back to better than when they picked it up new and drove it home.. Takes time... Time is money... They will see their "new again" old Porsche, and love it and tip you accordingly..
Dan F

 

[HUMP DIESEL]

Which brings me to my next point, Lets say you have two customers.

Both are in love with their cars the same. They want them to be well maintained, and looking new every week. The first has a 2011 Porsche 911 carerra, the other has a 2013 Toyota corolla. Two drastically different cars.

They both want a full detail consisting of the full Monte of polishing and finishing touches inside and out.

DO you charge more for the Porsche because it is more expensive, and delicate than the corolla? or do you charge the same?, in the end paint is paint, and being that one clear coat is softer than the other, you will use better products on the Porsche than the Corolla in order to produce better results. Remember, each customer is looking at their car the same.

What do you guys think? Morally justified? or crooked business?

Quick answer is ask your insurance provider which one would he rather replace?
There is a reason why every detailer should not touch and Enzo Ferrari.

I see your point, but paint is not just paint, nor is leather just leather.

HUMP

 

[HUMP DIESEL]

My point could have been constructed better

What I was pointing out is that by breaking it out to an hourly rate, some potential Customers may shy away

Telling someone what tasks are included in your basic package at $150 is perceived differently than telling them you charge $50 per hour

Everyone thinks they are underpaid and everyone else is over paid

A lot of Customers do not believe that Detailing is a skilled art

Ask a few people, that you don't know, what they think a Detailer makes per hour

Until I got into detailing, I thought the $23 basic wash was a good value as does 95% of the population

Most Customers have done what we do, on some basic level. They have washed a car. They have not done Surgery, not even a minor one. The perceived value of what we enjoy doing is low for most Consumers


The basic "task" of detailing is not difficult and requires minimal skill. If you were standing over the shoulder of any reasonably intelligent person and held their hand thru each of the processes, they could physically do what we do...wash, clay, vacuum, wax, even polish paint

Finding Customers who already appreciate the difference between Car Washing and Detailing is the difficult part. Even more difficult is convincing an existing Customer the value of the added expertise to get from 80% to 95%

The great thing about Detailing is that no one can tell you how much to charge or how many hours you have to work. I think Mike Phillips gets around $120 per hour.

It will always be Supply & Demand. If you are booked solid...raise your prices as high as possible...eventually the two lines will cross, hopefully, very high on the graph


Again, the point was; pricing by the hour can be delicate

I do agree with what you are stating here. Yes, I can also see how a person would not want to know what I charge hourly, so I don't tell them. That is my information based of the cost of doing business and the level of work that I do.

HUMP

 

[allenk4]

I do agree with what you are stating here. Yes, I can also see how a person would not want to know what I charge hourly, so I don't tell them. That is my information based of the cost of doing business and the level of work that I do.

HUMP

I firmly agree with this approach

 

[slimnib]

I agree with Bob that giving the Customer a quote by the hour could turn off a lot of people

If they make $20 an hour, why do you "deserve" $60 per hour

BTW, if you are able to get $60 an hour and consistently work 40 hours...you will be making $120k a year gross!

How much do you pay an hour for a plumber or electrician ? You are not going to get detailing work from some one who makes $20 an hour

Good luck

 

[FTD]

Quick answer is ask your insurance provider which one would he rather replace?
There is a reason why every detailer should not touch and Enzo Ferrari.

I see your point, but paint is not just paint, nor is leather just leather.

HUMP

As a skilled body guy, paint is paint. The clear coats differ very much in dry times and durability. The European paints are generally tougher and more difficult to correct, while Japanese and after market paints are soft. I do realize that a ore he paint job is far more expensive than a Hondas, name means everything. The same work is put into the paint on both cars. Both have primer, base coat, and clear. Depending on what stage it is, there could be a pearl coat too, which is very expensive to fix. I agree that I should charge more for the Porsche because chances are is dyed and unsealed leather, with a 3 stage paint. more expensive chemicals equals more expensive job. The Corolla would have sealed bonded leather at best. You can't clean them the same.

 

[allenk4]

How much do you pay an hour for a plumber or electrician ? You are not going to get detailing work from some one who makes $20 an hour

Good luck

Your premise does not work

I can Detail my car without a license

I am not licensed to make Pluming or Electrical repairs


Lots of People get "Detailing Work" from someone who makes less than $20 per hour

It may not be up to your standards or mine, but there are definitely "Detailers" who make $20 or less per hour when they are working and make much less than $40k a year as a "Detailer"

 

[cardaddy]

How much do you pay an hour for a plumber or electrician ? You are not going to get detailing work from some one who makes $20 an hour

Good luck

Ohhhhh but yes you are!

Not the ones that hang out on "detailing forums", not by a LONG shot. But you go to any car wash that has guys standing out front with buffers, or go to a dealership for a $69.95 "Full Detail" and that's exactly what you'll get.

Which of course is EXACTLY where the problem(s) start.

 

[DeansDetailing]

This was an excellent discussion!

 

[tdekany]

Which brings me to my next point, Lets say you have two customers.

DO you charge more for the Porsche because it is more expensive, and delicate than the corolla? or do you charge the same?, in the end paint is paint, and being that one clear coat is softer than the other, you will use better products on the Porsche than the Corolla in order to produce better results. Remember, each customer is looking at their car the same.

What do you guys think? Morally justified? or crooked business?

It depends on which paint is in worse shape. That is why charging per hour is the way to go. But no one should charge more just because the car is $$$.

 

[tdekany]

How much do you pay an hour for a plumber or electrician ? You are not going to get detailing work from some one who makes $20 an hour

Good luck

Exactly - I am not sure why some are opposed to making $100 an hour as a detailer. Paint correction isn't risk free and if it was as easy as some want to make it sound like, than why don't most detailers do it?

My neighbor across the street did all his electric work himself. He is a teacher and I guess he thought paying high $$ to do it wasn't worth it.

I believe you meant to say that you can't get paint correction at $20 an hour.