Professional Ceramic Coating Problems and can I top it with a coating from AG?

[Patman22]

One question I have about ceramic coatings is that a lot of them claim that they have a 2 or 3 year life span, but will it still have the "self cleaning" ability and hydrophobic nature for that entire time, or does that benefit of a coating fade quickly?

 

[Rsurfer]

One question I have about ceramic coatings is that a lot of them claim that they have a 2 or 3 year life span, but will it still have the "self cleaning" ability and hydrophobic nature for that entire time, or does that benefit of a coating fade quickly?

It will if properly maintained. Don't expect self cleaning and hydrophobic properties if you wash six months later.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

One question I have about ceramic coatings is that a lot of them claim that they have a 2 or 3 year life span, but will it still have the "self cleaning" ability and hydrophobic nature for that entire time, or does that benefit of a coating fade quickly?

It will if properly maintained. Don't expect self cleaning and hydrophobic properties if you wash six months later.

Yep...not a 'fire and forget' deal but does make maintenance much easier.

Gyeon Mohs – 2011 Ford Ranger, Bright Red

Applied 2 layers, Feb 20, 2017

Topped with Gyeon Cure, Feb 21 2017

Mileage since application approx 12K miles

Maintenance since application: None; no washing, no topping, no nuthin’

Vehicle sits outside pretty much 24hrs a day, Fleet Truck for seasonal pool company. Driven/used by staff, generally treated worse than a rental car.

Finally brought truck home to wash/check it all out. Truck has stayed clean and good looking throughout the 8 month period, among the best of the ones I was watching at staying clean.

Upon initially rinsing with hose, it appeared that ALL beading was gone from horizontal surfaces. Water just laid flat on hood and roof. To the touch, surface felt like it had no LSP of any type on it, no slickness whatsoever. A few bird bombs on hood rinsed off with a little pressure from hose. Vertical surfaces (fenders, doors and bedsides) still maintained what appeared to be slight hydrophobic behavior and just a slight amount of beading.

One area that appeared to still have initially coating present/water behavior was a small triangle below each side view mirror, first thought being that the small area was always shaded by side-view mirror…I dunno but it was a distinct triangular area on both doors directly below the mirror that looked like coating had been recently applied with respect to water behavior.

Baggie test felt like much contamination, very gritty. So, decided to try a few things:

1. Foam bath with Chem Guys Honeydew Snow Foam Cleanser at about 1:5 dilution with a MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, SunJoe SPX3001 1.76 GPM, 2030 PSI pressure washer. Let foam dwell for recommended time, 3 or 4 minutes and then rinsed with pressure washer. No apparent change to surface.

2. Bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe and then dry…No apparent change to surface.

3. Decon with Sonax Fallout Cleaner, saw a bit of bleeding, applied, and agitated with foam applicator pad, let dwell, rinsed with pressure washer. Bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe, dried…no apparent change to surface visually but baggie test showed about 75% reduction in surface contaminants…perhaps even a bit more.

4. Clayed very lightly with Nanoskin Fine Grade Clay mitt during another bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe, rinse and dry. Baggie test indicated very smooth surface but water behavior and feel of dry paint was unchanged…still felt/acted like no LSP was on surface. Nanoskin also left no marring for whatever that’s worth.

Generally the truck has been used and abused over the last 12K miles/8 months. Has the Gyeon Mohs held up? While it appears that the coating is gone (lack of water behavior and slickness, aside from the 2 spots under the mirrors), why does the truck always look clean and shiny? I dunno. Also, since claying with Nanoskin left no marring, is the coating still there at some level providing some protection to marring? I noticed some round stains prior to washing that indicated cups/cans/bottles were set there at some point, they easily removed during wash and tar on the rocker panels came off with much less effort than on non-protected vehicle, what gives? Again, I dunno.

 

[jmeyers278]

1 oz = 30 mL

That is absolutely enough to do more than 1 full vehicle.

What coating was used?

Then I don't have an ounce....sorry. He gave me about 1/4 of a 55ml bottle. It is enough to touch up spots I have to fix in one but not to recoat the whole other vehicle....it is system x diamond coating

 

[jmeyers278]

Can you share which coating you had applied? That might help us make a recommendation. I use opti-seal on top of opti-gloss as a drying aid every other couple of washes and it works well for me. I also like that I can use it on trim and glass.

It was system x diamond. My problem is, with him polishing the car with 2500 menzerna, he may have removed most of the coating. I really don't want to polish both trucks all over and start fresh. I was just wondering if there was a permanent coating that I could put on to top what is on there, just in case some has been polished off? Not sure if that makes sense or not.

 

[RippyD]

Yep...not a 'fire and forget' deal but does make maintenance much easier.

Gyeon Mohs – 2011 Ford Ranger, Bright Red

Applied 2 layers, Feb 20, 2017

Topped with Gyeon Cure, Feb 21 2017

Mileage since application approx 12K miles

Maintenance since application: None; no washing, no topping, no nuthin’

Vehicle sits outside pretty much 24hrs a day, Fleet Truck for seasonal pool company. Driven/used by staff, generally treated worse than a rental car.

Finally brought truck home to wash/check it all out. Truck has stayed clean and good looking throughout the 8 month period, among the best of the ones I was watching at staying clean.

Upon initially rinsing with hose, it appeared that ALL beading was gone from horizontal surfaces. Water just laid flat on hood and roof. To the touch, surface felt like it had no LSP of any type on it, no slickness whatsoever. A few bird bombs on hood rinsed off with a little pressure from hose. Vertical surfaces (fenders, doors and bedsides) still maintained what appeared to be slight hydrophobic behavior and just a slight amount of beading.

One area that appeared to still have initially coating present/water behavior was a small triangle below each side view mirror, first thought being that the small area was always shaded by side-view mirror…I dunno but it was a distinct triangular area on both doors directly below the mirror that looked like coating had been recently applied with respect to water behavior.

Baggie test felt like much contamination, very gritty. So, decided to try a few things:

<snip>

what gives? Again, I dunno.

Great post, BP1. Good example of something going on with a coating, but not clear at all what. Also of good example of why I simultaneously like coatings but remain skeptical. How is there no info on this kind of behavior and what it means? Some coating manufactures would have to know what's happening.

Would be great to know if this truck continues to look cleaner as we head into winter. I'm guessing the coating is mostly gone where there's no beading or sheeting. I (also) dunno.

 

[Audios S6]

Great post, BP1. Good example of something going on with a coating, but not clear at all what. Also of good example of why I simultaneously like coatings but remain skeptical. How is there no info on this kind of behavior and what it means? Some coating manufactures would have to know what's happening.

Would be great to know if this truck continues to look cleaner as we head into winter. I'm guessing the coating is mostly gone where there's no beading or sheeting. I (also) dunno.

Here's what I believe is happening. Note that I am not a chemist, nor formulator of these products and that there are many different types of formulations so this is not applicable to all products.

Many are composed of a base resin and solvent/carrier. The base resin has 3 reactive legs and 1 functional leg. The reactive legs allow cross-linking and bonding generating a shiny surface. The functional leg provides a certain desirable characteristic like beading. Then additional additives are included in small percentage to yield certain properties like beading as well.

The reactive portion of the resin is not easily affected, but the functional group and the additive's functional group are more easily affected. These functional groups are in some way rendered ineffective with neglect or age while the reactive portions are not affected, thus leaving a shiny surface, but one that doesn't bead.

 

[RippyD]

Interesting. Curious if that you came to that conclusion from researching coatings or from how the lotus effect is created in plants. Doesn't matter - just curious. The question I have is if the car stays cleaner once the beading is gone. If so, the coating still adds value. If not, it's potentially just something that is keeping another coating or sealant from performing well.

At what point does a coating become more of a nuisance as opposed to adding value?

 

[zmcgovern45]

...
The question I have is if the car stays cleaner once the beading is gone. If so, the coating still adds value. If not, it's potentially just something that is keeping another coating or sealant from performing well.

At what point does a coating become more of a nuisance as opposed to adding value?

In my experience, a coated vehicle, even one that no longer beads water well, is significantly easier to clean than one that is not coated.

Right now, for instance, my new car has not been coated, but my wife's car that was coated years ago is soooo much easier to clean and dry. In over 2 years, the car has not needed to be clayed and it is driven daily, sun, rain, salt, snow, etc.

 

[fightnews]

Zach, are you suggesting a spot repair of the coating, or recoating the whole panel? Just curious as it's not clear to me from your statement.

I will respectfully disagree with you on the benefits of slickness. In my testing observations I found that PBLv2 was more resistant to scratching than a particular 9H coating and several other ceramics all things being as equal as one can make them in their garage. There was certainly a correlation across the board between the (highly subjective assessment of the) slickness and (slightly less subjective assessment of the) scratch resistance.

You should check out my "loss of clarity" thread if you have a chance. I used the PBL V2 coating on my car 2 weeks ago. I would like to get your opinion on it. The thread has pics.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Would be great to know if this truck continues to look cleaner as we head into winter. I'm guessing the coating is mostly gone where there's no beading or sheeting. I (also) dunno.

Alas, we may never know cuz I dropped two coats of Gyeon CanCoat on it...doh!

I was quite surprised when I started going over it; why was it staying so incredibly clean compared to a non-coated car when the surface was, well...anything *but* slick? Even after the wash, decon, clay when I covered the hood with water, the water just laid there until it evaporated, explaining why there was never any water spotting (there was no longer any beading to dry into spots).

 

[RippyD]

In my experience, a coated vehicle, even one that no longer beads water well, is significantly easier to clean than one that is not coated.

Right now, for instance, my new car has not been coated, but my wife's car that was coated years ago is soooo much easier to clean and dry. In over 2 years, the car has not needed to be clayed and it is driven daily, sun, rain, salt, snow, etc.

Thanks Zack - appreciate your experienced perspective.

I've tired a few coatings and in my very wet environment they all get embedded road grime at the same rate as uncoated panels, possibly faster. They do respond well to claying. Of course I'm measuring beading/sheeting, not cleaning ability. On the roof of one car with 4 coatings and 2 sealants I haven't found any are to be obviously cleaner than others. Will try to look at this more closely.

 

[fightnews]

Thanks Zack - appreciate your experienced perspective.

I've tired a few coatings and in my very wet environment they all get embedded road grime at the same rate as uncoated panels, possibly faster. They do respond well to claying. Of course I'm measuring beading/sheeting, not cleaning ability. On the roof of one car with 4 coatings and 2 sealants I haven't found any are to be obviously cleaner than others. Will try to look at this more closely.

Wow thats impressive. How did you do that by taping off? What about in between the tape lines?

 

[RippyD]

Wow thats impressive. How did you do that by taping off? What about in between the tape lines?

Yes, just taped off sections. The tape lines continue to be obvious, so something must still be in the areas where I applied product. The ongoing comparison starts on page 7.

 

[Klasse Act]

I'm certainly not in the league of others here who've commented about coatings but common sense would tell you that you MUST re-apply the coating to the polished areas, I mean its been polished and with a foam pad and abrasives, right. I always use the coating and same applicator to knock down high spots first and if that doesn't do, then and only then, do I polish it out and I even go by hand first, no need for overkill with the machine because the high spots aren't anything that difficult to remove.

 

[jmeyers278]

I'm certainly not in the league of others here who've commented about coatings but common sense would tell you that you MUST re-apply the coating to the polished areas, I mean its been polished and with a foam pad and abrasives, right. I always use the coating and same applicator to knock down high spots first and if that doesn't do, then and only then, do I polish it out and I even go by hand first, no need for overkill with the machine because the high spots aren't anything that difficult to remove.

The only reason I asked is that the coating manufacturer stated the coating would have to be compounded off to remove it. A medium grade polish and pad are much less abrasive than a compound and stiff pad would be. I figured there would have to be coating left. Don’t know


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Klasse Act]

Sorry my comment wasn't directed at you per say but just an in general comment.

Sorry about that

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Audios S6]

Interesting. Curious if that you came to that conclusion from researching coatings or from how the lotus effect is created in plants. Doesn't matter - just curious. The question I have is if the car stays cleaner once the beading is gone. If so, the coating still adds value. If not, it's potentially just something that is keeping another coating or sealant from performing well.

At what point does a coating become more of a nuisance as opposed to adding value?

What is in coatings and how they cross link is from research of scholarly articles written by people that have developed this technology, but we are just a tiny sliver of the market for this technology and the research is broad based or directed at much larger markets.

The reason as to why they stop beading but still stay shiny or cleaner is strictly my hypothesis.

I really can't answer the last question as the value add is so subjective; but I think your question was intended to be rhetorical.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

At what point does a coating become more of a nuisance as opposed to adding value?

It's an interesting question, one that I must admit to wondering about. Maybe when a shopping cart rolls into your coated cars' door and you stand there saying "Well, now what's gonna be the easiest way to get rid of that mark?"

Maybe the longest lasting coating isn't the *best* coating for a car you care about and is out in the world daily. Especially if you have a fondness for black cars.

 

[Klasse Act]

My car is black and coated and I'm happy, even though I had a bout with high spots early going when the temps got cool. It's going to interesting next week as the highs are going to be in the 50's, stay "tuned".

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk