Pure insanity

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cmoneyinc

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Ok fellas, I'm new to this forum and there seems to be alot of knowledgeable people on here and a ton of good information. So let me get right down to it. I have a white 2011 Mercedes-Benz GLK 350. A few months ago I had it "detailed" and asked the detailer to remove all the swirls in it before he waxed it. Now don't get me wrong, the vehicle is not trashed and is well taken care of, but had the classic swirl marks in it due to improper washing and drying technique (which I have since corrected). I got the vehicle back from the detailer and it looked cleaned and waxed, but swirls were still there. I don't have alot of faith in "local" detailers anyway, so I kind of expected less than perfect results. I know thats sad but it is what it is.

As they say, "If you want it done right, do it yourself." So I decided to start doing some research on how to correct the paint myself. Being new to paint correction, I was obviously timid and nervous, as I didn't want to cause any more self-inflicted damage to my baby. After doing a ton of research on paint correction and detailing in general, I decided a safe option was the Porter Cable 7424XP and I pulled the trigger on it.

Now I was faced with the daunting task of deciding what pad/product combination I needed to correct the paint. At first, inexperienced glance, I thought the vehicle only had "light swirling." But after purchasing a Brinkmann Dual Xenon inspection light and doing more reading and research, I realized that the vehicle had some significant swirling and RIDS. The vehicle is white and the paint is glossy, so its hard to tell with the naked eye, but the defects are there.

I ended up purchasing Chemical Guys products, due to the fact that during my initial research they seemed to have a lot of detailed, informative videos. I started with V36 and V38 and a set of their 5.5 inch Hex Logic pads with their 5 inch backing plate. I went to work and failed miserably on my first try, realizing now that it was mainly due to poor technique. Back to my research. After watching countless 7424 technique videos and reading many articles, threads & posts, I went back to work. This time I got better results, but not perfect. I was still having trouble removing deeper swirls and RIDS.

I then decided to step it up a notch and try V34, which was now moving me out of the safe, cushy world of polish and into the compounding scene. The fist test spot I did with V34 was on a small section on the rear tailgate and the results were fantastic (Orange Hex Logic Pad). I'd say about 95%. I finished it with V38 on a white hex logic and I thought I was good to go.

So the next day I thought I'd try another panel - passenger side rear door (keep in mind I am washing and claying before polishing on each attempt). I went for the same combo: V34 with orange pad. This time the correction was not so great. Swirls seemed to be gone, but many RIDS remained. The only option I had at that time was to step up to the yellow hex logic heavy cutting pad with the V34. I tried again and the rids were still there and there even seemed to be some micro-marring. I was using proper technique (50/50 overlapping passes, 4-6 section passes until product flashes, medium pressure with my black sharpie mark on the backing plate to ensure proper pad rotation, primed the pad with Chemical Guys pad conditioner, used 5 pea-sized drops of product - just like in the chemical guys videos for about a 2' X 2' area). Being out of options and time for that day, I just tried to refine the finish with V38 and then put some Chemical Guys M-Seal on the section I did to protect it in case I didn't get back to that panel in a while.

The next day I decided to try a different panel, a 2' X 2' section of the hood. Washed it (waterless Ecosmart), clayed it, and went at it with V34 and an orange hex logic with good technique. Same result as door, removed any swirling but many RIDS remained. I also think that the reason it worked so well on the tailgate is because I believe that was re-painted at some point (which the scumbag dealer never mentioned and there was a clear Crafax on it and it was a certified pre-owned at a reputable Mercedes dealership - oh well, live & learn). The detailer even mentioned to me that he believed the tailgate had been re-painted based on his experience. That could explain why I was getting proper cut there, because it probably isn't the hard ceramic clear coat that Mercedes uses from the factory and thats on the rest of my vehicle....hopefully.

So back to research and my current dilemma. The more I read, the more I'm pulled in different directions. Flat pads, foam pads, microfiber pads, try smaller pads, try bigger pads, miracle spray-on compound, "Hey look over here, Menzerna FG 400 is the best," "No, look over here, Meguiars M101 is the best".........PURE INSANITY!!! There's almost too much information out there to handle.

Now I know some of you are going to say every paint is different and you have to adapt to your situation accordingly, and I agree. So here's my situation: I want to stay with the 7424XP, no interest in different or higher powered machines at this point. I have no problem getting or trying new products or pads, but don't want to go broke trying everything under the sun until something works. I already purchased 4" hex logic foam pads and I do have some 5.5 inch Chemical Guys Black Ops Microfiber Pads (the cutting and polishing ones) on the way, but haven't tried any of them yet. I've taken from my research that Microfiber pads have more cut than foam, so that was my thought process in trying them. I also bought a pad conditioning brush and I already have the Grit Guard Pad Washer system that I use for my foam hex logics.

So I guess my question is this: Knowing my situation and the current equipment I have, what is the next step?? I have heard alot of good things about FG 400 and M101 and was considering trying M101, but I'm also aware that they are said to be fairly aggressive compounds which is kinda scary. I was also thinking of getting some LC Hydro-Tech flat pads, because I've read they work better with the PC, especially with water-based products.

Any help or advice to sort through this overwhelming sea of information would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks!:dblthumb2:Feed back please:buffing:
 
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Lengthy read. Basically sometimes you have to live with RIDS. Also, you should try and find out more about your car. See if it was repainted. You might want to look into Menz polishes.
 
Thanks, I hear ya. Although I've seen videos of guys wacking away at vehicles with softer paint than mine with M101 with seemingly no adverse effect, but I could indeed be wrong.

As far as cleaning the microfiber pads, do you think the pad cleaning & conditioning brush would work well for them? I saw a video from Adam's Polishes that showed them cleaning their microfiber pads (which look very similar in construction to the Chemical Guys ones) on the fly and they were using the same brush I purchased.

Thanks
 
If the yellow pads are hazing the paint, then my guess is that the combo is a bit too aggressive. If i were you, i would stick with the orange pads and go at it longer... morepasses and use a smaller pad for spot corrections on the rids.
 
Yeah sorry about the lengthy original post, just wanted you guys to have all the info about my situation.
 
IME if you want to eliminate the RIDS you need to go with a focus pad (4inch pad) on a drill if you have one. Forced rotation plus a smaller pad will concentrate on the area of concern. Now, you being new to this you may want more experience paint correcting. You could run the risk of burning through your clear pretty easily with this method if unexperienced.

A second option would be buying a smaller backing plate for your PC that would accomodate a 4inch pad. It will take you longer than a rotary-like tool but its a lot safer. Obviously using the more aggressive products like FG400, M105, V34 etc.

If you do decide to use a drill just remember to always keep it moving!
 
I do have the 3 1/2 inch backing plate for the PC that accommodates the 4" pads. The problem with the RIDS is that theres quite a bit of them. So should I just work the same size area (approx 2' X 2') with the smaller pads that I was working with the 5 1/2" pads, or do I need to focus on each individual RIDS as spot correction?

Thanks
 
cmoneyinc said:
I do have the 3 1/2 inch backing plate for the PC that accommodates the 4" pads. The problem with the RIDS is that theres quite a bit of them. So should I just work the same size area (approx 2' X 2') with the smaller pads that I was working with the 5 1/2" pads, or do I need to focus on each individual RIDS as spot correction?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Honestly you're going to have to make a choice. Im assuming it is your daily driver?

If you have many RIDS it would be wise to break it up into sessions (hood one day, doors next day etc.) This was easy for me when I had my corvette because it stayed in the garage and I daily drove a f150.

For a daily driver, most people will not strive for perfection. Maybe 80-90%. I would tackle the ones that stand out most or ones that you are bothered by the most. Or it could be the other way around as well, like the ones that are easily removed so you can achieve more in a less amount of time. It's up to you.

To answer your question, for me I concentrate on the RIDS individually. you'd be wasting time, product & effort doing a 2x2 section with a 4inch pad to remove RIDS IMO unless they are close together. Like i said it's up to you and what you think your time & effort is worth. You'll just have to step back and assess the situation.
 
Yes, it is my daily driver. I see your point, and the ones on the hood definitely bother me the most.
 
good luck on whatever you decide to do. Just remember to have patience & set a realistic goal for yourself.
 
Microfiber pads, smaller work sections, slower arm speed, more section passes, more downward applied pressure and ditch the CG and grab some Meguiar's M-105 instead. If you don't have compressed air to cool down, fluff up and clean out the microfiber pads, grab a 12 pack of the pads and change them out every few section passes so they can cool down, otherwise you'll end up melting down the backing plate velcro and destroying the pads due to overheating.

Practice practice practice. Monitor the heat in your pads often and change to a cool pad when they get hot. Have a stiff pad cleaning brush to fluff up the matted down micro-fibers often.

Ceramiclear should really be first cut with a rotary and wool pad to get the RIDS reduced before going to a DA. The stuff is incredibly hard, I mean stupid hard...
 
Just to add to the advice already given...you do not have to clay your car every time you go to do some polishing. Claying only needs to be once or twice a year (usually). If these are short periods of time in between each time you work on your car, you can skip the claying step and save yourself some time. :xyxthumbs:
 
Tuscarora Dave, I've read that M101 has better cut, better finish, and is easier to use than 105. Should I try that instead?
 
cmoneyinc said:
Tuscarora Dave, I've read that M101 has better cut, better finish, and is easier to use than 105. Should I try that instead?
Click to expand...

I've really found no desire to switch just because I've gotten so good with 105 over the years I've been using it. A lot of folks including myself have / had a very hard time getting through the learning curve with 105.

I do understand M-101 to be as exactly as you said, and easier for the guy who's newer to compounding to work with. I'd say yeah go with it. When I first started working on Ceramiclear paint and later model Corvette paint, (both are similarly hard) I was trying all sorts of different compounds even with a rotary and wool pads. This was before M-101 came out and my teacher at that time was adamant that nothing but M-105 was going to cut the Ceramiclear paint and finish nice.

Meguiar's tends to set the bar for polishing \ compounding abrasives technology so I have no doubt that M-101 is a great product. The important part is that you are using superior non-diminishing abrasives and Meguiar's has that covered.
 
Does anyone think that FG400 would be a better or safer option for me than M101 (being that its DAT vs SMAT)?
 
This is just my opinion:

I think you have worked it long enough, (I am comfortable with 3M and repaints)

Just let it be, move on to a polish, so you can remove the compound results, then you could try jeweling.

But seal it, once your done.... And stop cutting

Again IMO
 
Well I decided to go with the FG400 and teamed it up with a 5.5" Cyan LC Hydrotech pad and tackled my hood yesterday. Results were FANTASTIC! I also took some of your advice and went with smaller work sections (divided my hood into 6 sections instead of 4). I know I'm new to this, but dare I say, I achieved around 95% correction. There were one or two deeper RIDS that still remained, so I switched to a 4" cyan Hydrotech to spot buff them. They came right out too!

I was AMAZED at how well the FG400 finished on the cyan "cutting" pad! Ive read that this is not uncommon for FG400, but was still very skeptical because of it being such an aggressive compound. Even after looking at the results in both the halogen work light and the Brinkmann LED, I couldn't see any micro marring or hazing at all (I have 20/10 vision, albeit inexperienced detailing vision).

Just to be safe I wiped it down with GG Pre-Wax Cleaner and finished it with SF4500 anyway. Wiped everything down again and then glazed it with CG EZ Creme Glaze, followed by Menzerna Power Lock to seal it. Difference is night & day in my eyes. Thanks again for all your advice! I might be gettin the hang of this! ; )
 
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