Question about coatings

Sicoupe

Sicoupe

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I watched a video of this guy detailing a Porsche white in color, he did a total of 8 coats of Cquatz UK with the last one being Carpro bliss, and he did a total of 3 coats of glass coating. I was wondering if there is any benefit by doing that many? by the way, the car looked fantastic!

Kyle
 
that seems quite excessive. Most coating manufacturers recommend 2 coats max, unless it's a 2 part coating like Gyeon Syncro, Kamikaze etc. where you could end up with 4-5 total layers.
 
There is no benefit to that many layers with cquartz. The law of diminishing returns still pertains to coatings just like a wax or sealant. I agree with JC.

For example CarPro recommends 2 coats of either UK or TiO2 and 1 coat of Gliss (a second coat is optional). So it is best to follow the manufacturers recommendations.
 
I don’t quite understand how I’ve heard the talk that sounds something like “you can do 2 [maybe even 3] layers, but anything beyond that is redundant because then the coating can’t bond to itself” -Or something along those lines.

But my question is: If the coating can’t bond between layers 4-5, then how the heck is it bonding to itself in layers 1-2? That doesn’t make any sense. Or am I missing something?
 
I think it was Jeff from Gyeon who just the other day said the same thing. For some of their coatings like Pure, which apply thick enough on the first coat, the second coat is a waste as it won't bond to the paint. It just sits on top of the first layer of coating. He also mentioned with coatings like Mohs which go on thinner anything after two layers serves no value.
 
Eldorado2k said:
I don’t quite understand how I’ve heard the talk that sounds something like “you can do 2 [maybe even 3] layers, but anything beyond that is redundant because then the coating can’t bond to itself” -Or something along those lines.

But my question is: If the coating can’t bond between layers 4-5, then how the heck is it bonding to itself in layers 1-2? That doesn’t make any sense. Or am I missing something?
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I don't think you're missing anything. I do think, though, that after a while you start to hit the law of diminishing returns as Guz said. The coating should always bond to itself, even up to 8 layers as mentioned above but the question really is, is it worth it.

Everyone's familiar with that candy gloss that most coatings give you. But, you usually apply one layer, let it cure for a bit,then apply a second. I view this similar to applying a polymer sealant and following with a carnauba wax (a la powerlock/845 combo that used to be the darling of this industry).


I don't know all the chemistry behind it, but to me 8 layers of CQUK followed by a single layer of gliss would appear to be a detailer trying to really stretch his profit margin.
 
What about the 3 coats on glass? will it bond after the first coat?
 
Sicoupe said:
What about the 3 coats on glass? will it bond after the first coat?
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Also seems excessive, but typically I think coatings have a harder time sticking around on glass. Most glass coatings are recommended at 2 layers on the windshield and 1 layer on side windows due to the windshield receiving the most abuse. Again, I don't think it's necessarily bad to put 3 layers on the glass, I just wonder what you actually get for that extra product and effort in terms of longevity.
 
Thanks a lot guys for your input, much appreciated!
 
Waste, the reason for the second coat is to ensure even coverage. CP is one of the big companies that boosts needing multiple coats. I think this goes along with the guys who offer 30 step details, it's just flashy show.
 
Then there’s the whole [according to the Esoteric Detail guy] you can’t just use a “quik detailer” on your coated vehicle”

If [according to him] it can’t even handle being wiped down with a friggin quik detailer, what happens if god forbid the wife runs it though the car wash at the Shell gas station 1 day?? Coating over I would assume according to his rules..

....But he does recommend using Gyeon Bathe+ [which IMO is the worst car soap I’ve ever used in my life]

Meanwhile according to Carpros official video you can use straight undiluted Megs APC and it has no effect on the coating.

Another offical word says don’t use anything with a PH level of over 11-12 [which would make D101 off limits even though the other companies video shows it has no effect on their coating]

COATING SHMOATING. Can’t even prevent contaminants from bonding to the surface... IMO they’re high maintenance and not worth it.
 
Sicoupe said:
What about the 3 coats on glass? will it bond after the first coat?
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This is going to vary as well depending on the glass coating. The one's I have used the only one that recommended multiple applications was CarPro FlybyForte which I believe is a max of 3 coats. Optimum Opti-Glass and McKee's are 1 and done and this for the most part is good enough. I am experimenting with a double coat of McKee's at the moment to see if there is any benefit. I doubt there will be that much of a difference.
 
The Guz said:
This is going to vary as well depending on the coating.
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This seems to be the widespread theme in regards to coatings.. If you didn’t use a panel wipe... If you didn’t apply indoors and wear a body condom, if you didn’t cure with infared lights, you used a friggin quik detailer!, if you used a soap with gloss enhancers in it, if you didn’t follow “synergy”, if you aren’t a certified installer... The list goes on and on.

There’s a million excuses they can point to when you want a simple answer as to why your coating isn’t living up to the hype or seems to have completely disappeared.
 
Eldorado2k said:
This seems to be the widespread theme in regards to coatings.. If you didn’t use a panel wipe... If you didn’t apply indoors and wear a body condom, if you didn’t cure with infared lights, you used a friggin quik detailer!, if you used a soap with gloss enhancers in it, if you didn’t follow “synergy”, if you aren’t a certified installer... The list goes on and on.

There’s a million excuses they can point to when you want a simple answer as to why your coating isn’t living up to the hype or seems to have completely disappeared.
Click to expand...
And this why I don't coat!
 
Eldorado2k said:
This seems to be the widespread theme in regards to coatings.. If you didn’t use a panel wipe... If you didn’t apply indoors and wear a body condom, if you didn’t cure with infared lights, you used a friggin quik detailer!, if you used a soap with gloss enhancers in it, if you didn’t follow “synergy”, if you aren’t a certified installer... The list goes on and on.

There’s a million excuses they can point to when you want a simple answer as to why your coating isn’t living up to the hype or seems to have completely disappeared.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of this is overblown on many different fronts by vendors and overly obsessive individuals to ensure maximum results. I've used three different coatings and only followed the application instruction in spirit, but not exactly. In all three cases, the products lived up to their minimum claims and two are looking to exceed them. Nothing fancy being done...no toppers, no sacrificing small woodland creatures at midnight when certain planets align, just washing them when able by hand and a few runs through the touchless in the dead of winter.

The time savings and ease of maintenance are enough I'll probably never use a sealant again.
 
I’ve done the 1 vs 2 vs 3 coats on different panels on the same car, single coat looked,performed better and lasted longer than the multiple coated panels. You lose clarity and take on clouding with anything more than 1 coat. I haven’t found a single lsp be it wax,sealant or coating that benefitted from more than a single coat. If it needs more than a single coat its well garbage.
 
Wow! That is crazy! Maybe I am missing something about coatings, however, I do only 2 coats. I wonder what the cure time is for 5 or 6 coatings? Must be a looooonnnnnngggggg time to cure! LOL
 
I think it depends on the chemistry of the coating you use. All coatings are not the same. As wax and sealants not are all the same either. I think that since coating often has a very high water contact angle it's harder to make stuff that can bond to it. For years you have had car soap with wax in it to the point it's went to a standard. You have spray waxes that you maintain your lsp. And you have rinseless wash and waterless wash that leaves wax and sealants behind. Why would you don't want to ad something to a coating? The big difference is it easy to work backwards when useing products that are for wax and sealants on coatings. Because of the superior water behavior and self cleaning ability coating has for the most times. Of course their are some great waxes and sealants. As it's also coatings that are not so great and even worse than some waxes and sealants. Then you have to maintain a coating in a different way than ordinary lsp. So if you are not ready to change your maintance method or don't like coatings it's fine. It's great that we have another choice to go with when coating entered the scene. But if you don't like don't use it.

I now of one coating that are for consumer that you can apply up to 8 layers. The cars I have seen done with this coating has had an awesome clarity and depth. And it's up to you to decide how many layers you are ready to apply and has the budget to do so. The only thing that matters is if you are satisfied with your results. And the coating is able to be layered. Then what benefit you get for doing multible layers is up to you and if you think it's worth it. That you are going to know when it's starts to go to it's end.

It's been like Flex vs Rupes as with wax and sealants vs ceramic coatings. I think it's great that all those products exists. And people finds what they like and use it alot. I respect that choices people makes and what they believe in is best for their cars. We all have different opinions on what we like and don't. But we can explain why we chose a specific product and it's up to the individuals to decide if it's worth trying out for them self. Since it's so many ways to go with different products. It's also different situation those products suits different people and that's okay.
 
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