You are correct that a long-grain to end-grain joint isn’t as strong as joining long-grain to long-grain. But is it strong enough? It is strong enough if you use longer coarse screws. And really, all you’re doing with the screws is clamping until the glue dries. Today’s glues are stronger than the wood such that when you go to break it, the joint usually won’t break, it will break in the wood grain. And for PL Premium 3X, and we use it for our commercial home theater subwoofers, we let it cure for 24 hours before we remove the clamps. We do not use fasteners at all, just the glue, and we’ve had no issues at all. And our subs are 18” and 24” driven by 4,000 continuous watts so the enclosures deal with some force.
Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
- Thread starter oneheadlite
- Start date
You are correct that a long-grain to end-grain joint isn’t as strong as joining long-grain to long-grain. But is it strong enough? It is strong enough if you use longer coarse screws. And really, all you’re doing with the screws is clamping until the glue dries. Today’s glues are stronger than the wood such that when you go to break it, the joint usually won’t break, it will break in the wood grain. And for PL Premium 3X, and we use it for our commercial home theater subwoofers, we let it cure for 24 hours before we remove the clamps. We do not use fasteners at all, just the glue, and we’ve had no issues at all. And our subs are 18” and 24” driven by 4,000 continuous watts so the enclosures deal with some force.
To backup my screw as clamping system claim, take a look at the Miller Dowel System, which is a long stepped dowel that goes into end grain for joinery. No screws, only glue but you would need clamps or screws as clamps. That is a fairly inexpensive system that would work well and would not leave any hardware showing.
For the original topic, I don't think I'd do anything other than the sanding your implied. It's inside your home unless you plan on sleeping outdoors. You're always have some wood movement, even the stained and varnished floors. But if you're really concerned, use an exterior stain meant for fences and decks. Since color is no object, you could probably get a deal on something unsaleable at your local Home Depot. I have a bedroom set that was a wedding gift to my grandparents. It's over 100 years old and it only has the original stain finish. It may have had a linseed oil or similar applied originally, but it's never been refinished.
Normal finishes whether interior or exterior won't completely seal the wood, so like you said, you're going to get seasonal wood movement unless you completely seal it which would require something like epoxy, which would block the air getting to the wood fibers. But the main reason I was going to comment is that 100 year old growth wood doesn't compare to today's fast growth wood. Kiln dried helps but if a piece of wood is going to warp, there's nothing you can do about it. But I agree, just build it and move on. It will likely be just fine.
"... if a piece of wood is going to warp, there's nothing you can do about it."
Not trying to be argumentative; just educational. There are things you can do. not always practical, but...
1) Learn how to read grain
2) Understand the concept of trying to always have at least three attachment points to a board.
3) A cement soaked board typically won't warp
Not trying to be argumentative; just educational. There are things you can do. not always practical, but...
1) Learn how to read grain
2) Understand the concept of trying to always have at least three attachment points to a board.
3) A cement soaked board typically won't warp
No intention to attack you.
And I didn't say cement covered board. Cement soaked board - as in a board that has been used as a concrete form board.
As I said, the post wasn't directed at you, as much as just a general post on the subject of wood warpage. I'm willing to bet that a lot of posters on this board don't realize that a cement soaked form board won't warp. Comes in handy for exterior wood projects.
Well I’ve had cement soaked board before for small projects but limited experience. And I only get cement on one side of those boards so I’d think they’d be more prone to warping. But I guess if they are used enough and are forced straight and get cement on both sides, I could see how they might then be stable. But as you said, that isn’t practical and not something I’d want to use for furniture.
oneheadlite
Well-known member
- Aug 20, 2015
- 1,795
- 100
- Thread starter
- #30
Glad to hear I'm not totally off-base with my Pocket Screw understanding. Typically I do much longer research on something before jumping in, but due to time constraints (new mattress has been ordered), it's been a bit of a blitz-self-education.
Also good info on the preassembly. I've been going back and forth on that - originally I was thinking I'd forgo it as I wanted to retain as much thread strength of the freshly installed screws as possible. (Obviously care will be taken to not over-tighten hardware at any phase). But in light of the conversation here, it's clear I have been under-crediting how much work the glue is going to be doing.
I was planning on picking up a 90 degree clamp or two to help hold things steady.
If all goes well, that shouldn't be an issue - as long as I can get the frame done before the mattress arrives, it'll hang out and cure downstairs.
dgage - Thanks for sharing on your enclosure builds. Really helps drive home the strength of the glue!
You’re very welcome. Here is a video of the enclosures. We go around the sides with a couple ratchet straps and clamp the fronts to the backs with parallel clamps.
oneheadlite
Well-known member
- Aug 20, 2015
- 1,795
- 100
- Thread starter
- #32
Murphy's Law, got shipping notification it'll be here in 2 days.:doh: :laughing:
Got a chance to sit down and get the core 6 boards cut last night, was pretty happy with the results (my 4 lengthwise boards are well less than 1/16" variance. Yes, such a simple thing to be excited about, but Hey! I don't do this often). I'll get them assembled next and measure up for my perimeter boards.
Neat video! And very nice looking piece!
2black1s
New member
- Jan 23, 2015
- 1,783
- 1
Whenever you can it's best to cut (or any other machining) multiples of any like components with the same set-up.
In your case of cutting 4) 2x4s to length that would go something like this (assuming you are using a miter saw)...
- Cut one end square
- Index that square end to a positive stop you have set-up for the desired length
- Make second cut to desired length*
* If you are as anal as I can be, I usually set my initial stop slightly long, then creep up to the final length.
If you follow this process each piece will be as close as possible to being identical.
oneheadlite
Well-known member
- Aug 20, 2015
- 1,795
- 100
- Thread starter
- #34
Unfortunately I don't have a great setup for supporting the wood at work, so I'm working with the Miter Saw on the ground - While it'd be great to block off from the other end, my process has been as follows:
- I Executed a test cut to be able to place a tape mark 6" exactly back from the newly cut end. This allows me to mark wood at my cut length, backtrack 6" and have a rock solid place to line up my length cut. The saw I'm borrowing has the blade lights, but they're not working.
- Find necessary support setup for that board
- Cut one end square
- Mark board for length, add 6" mark.
- Cut
- Measure, rejoice.
- I Executed a test cut to be able to place a tape mark 6" exactly back from the newly cut end. This allows me to mark wood at my cut length, backtrack 6" and have a rock solid place to line up my length cut. The saw I'm borrowing has the blade lights, but they're not working.
- Find necessary support setup for that board
- Cut one end square
- Mark board for length, add 6" mark.
- Cut
- Measure, rejoice.
oneheadlite
Well-known member
- Aug 20, 2015
- 1,795
- 100
- Thread starter
- #35
Got the core support frame dry fit last night. Cross corner measurements are within 1/8", not sure what standard room for error is for square. I'm guessing an Amazon bed frame probably wouldn't be that close. 
Hopefully getting the rest of my boards cut tonight.
Hopefully getting the rest of my boards cut tonight.
oneheadlite
Well-known member
- Aug 20, 2015
- 1,795
- 100
- Thread starter
- #36
Thanks again everyone that chimed in to help.
Got it all finished up this weekend, really happy with how it turned out. This thing is S-O-L-I-D.
Got it all finished up this weekend, really happy with how it turned out. This thing is S-O-L-I-D.
oneheadlite
Well-known member
- Aug 20, 2015
- 1,795
- 100
- Thread starter
- #38
Thank you!
Yeah, the dowels are just inserted dry to help keep the slats located. I went back and forth on if I wanted to locate them with dowels (my first thought), screw them in place, or use spacer blocks between the slats (suggested by a friend). I went with the dowels figuring it would be easiest for removing/reinstalling the slats. I built the frame in the basement, but waited to install the supports/legs and the slats until it was upstairs (less weight to transport!
).
PaulMys
Active member
- Jan 14, 2014
- 10,772
- 3
Duct tape, of course!! :laughing::laughing:
Frame looks great, man. Solid work. :dblthumb2: