Quick vent

ziggo99

ziggo99

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I gotta vent this one real quick.

At my work, we're running 50% off wash and waxes for a week. We're doing 7, 8 vehicles a day between myself and my boss. We've got it down as a team. We wash, he dresses the tires, I start waxing and he starts vacuuming. When I'm done with the waxing, I start dressing the interior, and he starts on the outside windows. When he moves to the inside windows, I start taking the wax off. We're talking 45 minutes to and hour and still putting out a quality product. In any case, none of this matters and I digress...

We use Meguiar's Wheel Brightener. We're careful on some wheels, spraying it on right before we rinse the vehicle. Well, yesterday a Sierra 2500HD came through with the clearcoat coming off and in bad shape. We did a quick WB job, and sprayed them off first. The owner picked it up, signed off on it and left. Today, he shows back up and has my boss come outside. I couldn't hear them, but the owner kept pointing at the wheels as they walk around the vehicle. They go into the office and have a little chat and then by boss comes out to me. He asks me about the wheels. I told him the clearcoat was already coming off when it came in and I didn't let the WB dwell on them for long. The owner is claiming the wheels were in like new condition when he brought it in and that we damaged them. We have no before and after pictures and he's dead set on us buying him new wheels. Both my boss and myself we're about to get taken for a ride and he's using us as scapegoats to get new wheels.

Kinda a shame this type of thing happens but what can you do.
:rant:
 
thats just the way of the world. being in a body shop i see this all the time. "Umm yeaaa this scratch wasn't here when i dropped it off" blah blah blah. i hate people lol
 
I haven't used the product, but is there ANY chance that it could even make the clearcoat fail?

It's your word against his, and I'd tell him to just try and bring it on. You've lost him for a customer anyway. If he pursues you legally, (doubtful) the burden of proof would be on him, and he's going to lose.
 
Well, you may not be totally on the hook for the wheels. If it were me, I would offer something up front; a free wash, wax, whatever. I would not acknowledge that your company caused any damage if you truly did not. If he is not satisfied then off to small claims court he goes. HE has to prove that you caused the damage. Worst case, you lose and pay.

Now, he may bad mouth you guys all over town. If your company has a good reputation I wouldn't sweat that too much. If I am wrong and damage a car, I will certainly own up to it. I refuse to be taken for a ride without putting up a fight. I hope it all works out. Please keep us advised as the outcome may help the rest of us in business.
 
IME, some people just have a tendancy to suck. It's very likely that (and I will try as hard as possible to refrain from bashing one of your customers) the customer in question is the type of person that thinks very highly of his belongings.

Now odds are, he took his truck to get washed because it was dirty and in need. The wheels were in bad/dirty/unmaintained shape before the wash. Thus, why the clearcoat was peeling off his rims before-hand. The filth from the Sierra's unmaintained status was probably keeping the owners untrained eyes and uninformed mind from noticing such neglect.

Think of it like correction work, you don't really notice RIDS when they are covered in swirls; but man, when the swirls are gone, those RIDS are bloody thumbs!

Your company will probably have to bite the bullet and pay for the rims. There is a very slim chance that you or your boss could successfully explain to the owner that his rim's clearcoat is peeling because he failed to maintain the paint; Because it's his Sierra and he apparently knows best, so it could not possiblly be his fault.

Though, I've never heard of a product causing paint to peel, that happens mainly from neglect. That is what you have to prove.

I'm sorry one of these people had managed to find you...:(
 
RLove said:
I haven't used the product, but is there ANY chance that it could even make the clearcoat fail?

It's your word against his, and I'd tell him to just try and bring it on. You've lost him for a customer anyway. If he pursues you legally, (doubtful) the burden of proof would be on him, and he's going to lose.
Click to expand...
No chance, the clear was already coming off. I'm going to start taking pictures of any questionable wheels with my phone when they come through.

I'm going to suggest that we first send them to a local shop to refinish them since it's possible and it'll keep our cost down. If he won't accept that, then we will buy him new wheels ON THE CONDITION that he has to hand over his old wheels. While they are his wheels, if he's insisting that he gets new ones, why does he still want to keep the old ones? I'll know more tomorrow. We're being pretty level headed right now. It was pretty quick happening today and it was also towards the end of the time so our bodies and brains were a little fried.
 
That's easy...you just tell him he's wrong and you caused no damage to the wheels. Done deal. There's nothing he can do. He has no proof they were in new condition for one thing. And another thing...he's not gonna take it to court cause he can't even afford new rims never mind a lawyer, haha. Case closed.
 
It is not recommended to use acid on wheels with already failing clear coat. The acid will get down behind the clear coat and cause even more damage. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. While I'm sure his rims weren't like new, it is possible the wb did the damage after his vehicle left the shop.
 
offer a free wash and wax or a mini detail for him or another one of his cars. explain what you saw and that the damage was already there, but realize detailing is a word of mouth company. let him take you to small claims court, he won't get anything.
 
If it were me, and I have been in this position before and was proved right, I wouldn't offer anything. You've already lost him as a customer. Done deal, sucks. By offering him free services your admitting fault. Plus your opening your self up to another claim by him. It would suck if he came after you again saying you damaged his other vehicle. If you didn't cause the damage then don't back down. You did nothing wrong. You don't ned this type of customer. Just my opinion, I'm sure purple will disagree.
 
Even with the wheel all ready having clear peeling off, the wheel acid could of damaged them more. What strengh are you using it, just out of curiosity.

Lets hope this works out. Word of mouth can be a strong thing. If he is trying to get over on you, chnces are he will back down quickly.

Do not admitt to damaging them. Offer him A free detail or to pay for half the cost to get the wheels refurbished
 
If you did have to pay, you would be reasonable for the value of the wheels at the time. its called depreciated.value. He doesn't get a new set if wheels out of the deal. He gets reimbursed the value of the wheels at the time of the incident. Fight the god fight and good luck. And start doing inspections and noting damages prior to service and this could be avoided. A get a signature.
 
ziggo99 said:
No chance, the clear was already coming off. I'm going to start taking pictures of any questionable wheels with my phone when they come through.
Click to expand...

Good idea. Even better if you point the things out (wheels, dents, windshield crack, etc) to the customer while they are there & before you even touch the car. Use an inspection sheet & have the customer sign it too.

Having worked at car dealerships for a number of years I've seen people try to pull all sorts of nonsense like that so I understand your frustration.
 
I don't detail cars for a living....but when I do any work on "others" cars....I always take pictures around the car, especially those areas that are really bad. This serves 2 purposes...it protects me (to a point), and I like to keep before/after pictures for both myself and my customers. Its a great marketing tool, and it keeps people honest (they can't pull that kind of crap on me because a picture is worth a thousand words).

Nothing is fool proof however.
 
I should mention that I did not see the wheels when he came back, so I can't comment on if they were damaged any more, but there is another truck, with a similar problem, a 2500 Ram, and we've done it a handful of times since I've been there and we hit it with WB too and they haven't gotten worse and the owner has never complained. So yes, there is always a case that we did damage them, but I don't think we did.

I wish we'd fight this more like you all have suggested, but it's just the type of guy my boss is. He'd rather just get the customer out of our hair and never have to see him again. We'll see where we're at today when I go in.
 
ziggo99 said:
I should mention that I did not see the wheels when he came back, so I can't comment on if they were damaged any more, but there is another truck, with a similar problem, a 2500 Ram, and we've done it a handful of times since I've been there and we hit it with WB too and they haven't gotten worse and the owner has never complained. So yes, there is always a case that we did damage them, but I don't think we did.

I wish we'd fight this more like you all have suggested, but it's just the type of guy my boss is. He'd rather just get the customer out of our hair and never have to see him again. We'll see where we're at today when I go in.
Click to expand...


I make it a very big point to point out to the customer the faults in their vehicle that directly relates to what I will be doing... I have one of those "rental car" walk around pictures for my use and protection so that customers can't come back on me about things like this they also sign a waiver stating that "CrownKote is not liable for any indirect damages caused by the condition of the vehicle and the previous upkeep and maintenance." (this is just a snippet of the full thing) by having this "clause" we can not be tried on issues that may arise from someone's neglect... Once they sign that they are very aware that they can't come back on us because of their "laziness"... That being said I have had 1 customer come back to me and say that I put scratches in her paint and she wanted me to fix them... We looked over the car and low and behold it was obvious that something like a shopping cart did the damage (there were pressure dents where the cart first hit the car then scratches where it slid down the side the where the cart kid drug it back up the side) I advised her of this and what it looked like she ended up agreeing with me as she had gone to the store right after she picked up... I did however offer to buff them out for her and she accepted... They were barely there so I knew it would take just a few min... She was happy...

Do some research on clear coat failure and chemicals reactions with wheel clear coats and try to show the customer this research...

here are a few good starting points:
What Are the Causes of UV Clear-Coat Delaminating? | eHow.com

Quote from a wheel referb site: ( Alloy Wheel Repair Specialists Ottawa )
COSMETIC DAMAGED RIMS

A small stone chip, curb rash or deep surface scratches might look insignificant but will be the starting point of corrosion and peeling problems in the future. It’s still best to have them repaired and clear coated to protect it from getting dirt and salt into the damaged parts.
 
we have an inspection sheet that gets filled out and signed by the customer and inspector. any dents or dings are refered to me so that I can offer PDR services. Same with paint chips or deep scratches. damaged wheels and cracked plastic or other major issues we refer them to a mobil guy that is very good and reasonable. he also gives us a kick back.
Anyways make sure you inspect all vehicles or be prepared to give away your time and money,because this world is full of people wanting something for nothing.
 
Coming from the equipment rental industry for many years, I do the same thing as the guys above. A walk around inspection of the vehicle with the owner present. It covers my tail, and also gives a positive image to the customer that I care about their vehicle.

Now me being just a part timer and going 100% off word of mouth, these little extras help, and I rarely have any car come to me with "issues".

You can make an easy inspection sheet on your home computer or possibly find a downloadable version on line.
 
You said the customer signed off on it when it was picked up. I'm no lawyer, but I don't hink he has a case coming back the next day. I have to wonder what Judge Judy would say about it.

If you have the desire, you could check out what wheels at a salvage yard would cost, and in the name of 'good customer relations' offer to swap the wheels, but the customer pays for mounting and balancing, and you keep the old ones and recycle them. It's an offer, it's fair, and depending on the miles on the vehicle, a pro-rated settlement that the customer wouldn't get from a dealer. At any rate, if you do change the wheels, you keep the old ones, you bought them. No warrenty replacement is done without the old parts being kept by the dealer.

Sounds to me like the customer wants a set of beater wheels for bad weather times. I would be tempted to tell the customer to take a hike. In the future though, it would be a good idea to go over the vehicle with the customer when the vehicle is dropped off, and take before and after pictures.
 
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