Recommendations?

embolism

embolism

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Hi all,

Bought a used black 07 IS350 this year after driving my black 93 Integra into the ground and don't want to get into too many products (though I do see how addictive detailing can become). Right now I've just got a coat of Collinite 845 on the car. She'll never be a showcar but when she's all clean and waxed she looks pretty good. Come spring, I intend to clay, then add the Klasse twins topped with a carnauba.

I've always been careful when washing and drying (2 buckets, even rinse my synthetic chamois each time it comes off the car wet). The other day under the lights at the gas station, I saw some swirls and micro marring on the A pillar and trunk. Never really paid attention to that stuff before I came here but now it's bothering me and I want it gone! Not sure if I did it or if it was there from the previous owner. I've heard that Lexus clearcoats are fairly soft so do you think I could get away with using one of those orange CCS hand applicator pads and some Megs UC before the Klasse AIO?

Not sure I want to get into a pc at this time. I know it would probably save me tonnes of time and effort but I kinda like doing things by hand. This is also a daily driver that is garaged. I'm in downtown Toronto, Canada.

Thanks,

Tim
 
You can certainly work on your paint by hand but like you said it will save you tons of time by having a DA or rotory.

Your in Toronto, so there may be some local detailers on here that may be able to help you out. Its extremely tough work to get a perfect finish by hand. It most certainly can be done though and you can give it a shot. Search Mike Phillips articles and he has one about how to remove swirls by hand. Will probably come in handy if you do attempt to go at it.

And now that you noticed some swirls just wait...it will get worse for you. You'll start to see them all over the place (likely that if they are on the A pillar and trunk, they are probably all over). So, as the sun or lights hit it in different areas you'll notice. I even notice swirls on other peoples cars in parking lots and stuff. It's just something I always look at now.
 
From your avatar it looks like you'll have some marring when that snow slides off :bat:

Get Griots DA,, 6-pack of pads, a quart of 105/205 and you'll be ready to tackle that beast come Springtime :buffing:
 
I'm interested in trying to get some correction by hand as well, so I'll watch this thread.

SeaJay's said:
And now that you noticed some swirls just wait...it will get worse for you. You'll start to see them all over the place (likely that if they are on the A pillar and trunk, they are probably all over). So, as the sun or lights hit it in different areas you'll notice. I even notice swirls on other peoples cars in parking lots and stuff. It's just something I always look at now.
Click to expand...

Definitely haha. I look at other cars' paint at stop lights and in parking lots lol. Then I started noticing swirls marks at home, on our counters, the backs of iPods...

Also, here is the article SeaJay was talking about. There's a section called "Polishing Paint by Hand".
 
rott3np3anut said:
I'm interested in trying to get some correction by hand as well, so I'll watch this thread.



Definitely haha. I look at other cars' paint at stop lights and in parking lots lol. Then I started noticing swirls marks at home, on our counters, the backs of iPods...

Also, here is the article SeaJay was talking about. There's a section called "Polishing Paint by Hand".
Click to expand...

Thank you! I still need to figure out how to post up links to other threads.

Funny you mention swirl marks at home...I just noticed that my fridge has some on it...I'm going to have to bust out the DA and get to polishing that bad boy!
 
Thanks for the tips. I've started reading Mike's articles re hand polishing and didn't know I'd be in for so much 'passion' with my pads (I think it took him 2 hours to do half a hood!). Maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a DA.

Wasn't really looking at the Griots but its starting to grow on me...
 
embolism said:
Thanks for the tips. I've started reading Mike's articles re hand polishing and didn't know I'd be in for so much 'passion' with my pads (I think it took him 2 hours to do half a hood!). Maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a DA.

Wasn't really looking at the Griots but its starting to grow on me...
Click to expand...


I would definitely get the Griots. It's a great machine with plenty of power. I would suggest some pads and using the wolfgang total swirl remover and finishing glaze. The nice thing about the swirl remover is that you can change the cut depending on the pad you use. If the paint is soft, start with a white polishing pad. If the swirls don't budge, bump it up to an orange pad. The Wolfgang twins are really great products for beginners.

Like Seajay said...you will start to see swirls everywhere....I know I see them on other people's cars all the time and even have my friends pointing them out.
 
If your thinking of buying a DA just do it. Its a waste of money to buy the hand oj pads, you are better on spending the money on the oj DA pads. Its such a difference the amount of correction and how good the car will look. I would recomend:

Griots DA
2-3 lake country orange pads hydro/ccs/flat all work well. 5.5"
2-3 lake country white pads 5.5"
1-2 wax pads, gold and red 5.5"
1 five inch backing plate
Ultimate compound 7oz is fine and its over the counter. use with OJ pads
a fine polish like megs m205 or scratch X or color X

You have a great wax and just keep using it and you can use it on headlamps and wheels. I would get some tire gel like optiume(its a nice mantle shine) or megs endurance gel if you want shinny. Both last for weeks and don't cost much. Really your looking at a good 200 dollars, but its well worth it. Moreso if you do friends and family members cars.
 
If you really want to work by hand I'd get one of these: Wolfgang Polishin’ Pal is an ergonomically shaped urethane handle that holds specially designed foam pads using hooks & loops. or these Meguiars Unigrit Professional Hand Pad, hand backup pad, hand polishing pad

You may not get too far with swirl removal without a machine, but it'll be a lot shinier!

weavers said:
If your thinking of buying a DA just do it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well...to the OP's comment about being addictive...once upon a time I decided to "just do it"...now I'm up to 6 machines...
 
weavers said:
If your thinking of buying a DA just do it. Its a waste of money to buy the hand oj pads, you are better on spending the money on the oj DA pads. Its such a difference the amount of correction and how good the car will look. I would recomend:

Griots DA
2-3 lake country orange pads hydro/ccs/flat all work well. 5.5"
2-3 lake country white pads 5.5"
1-2 wax pads, gold and red 5.5"
1 five inch backing plate
Ultimate compound 7oz is fine and its over the counter. use with OJ pads
a fine polish like megs m205 or scratch X or color X

You have a great wax and just keep using it and you can use it on headlamps and wheels. I would get some tire gel like optiume(its a nice mantle shine) or megs endurance gel if you want shinny. Both last for weeks and don't cost much. Really your looking at a good 200 dollars, but its well worth it. Moreso if you do friends and family members cars.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the Griots come with a 6" backing plate? I'd rather use 5.5" pads so wonder if anyone will sell a 5" bp instead. Do you know if scratch x 2.0 has a lot of silicone in it? I think I read somewhere that it is not considered body shop safe. If that's the case then I'll probably go with Meg's UC and Swirl X or the Wolfgang twins.

Here's my limited arsenal so far:

Klasse twins
Collinite 845
Scratch X 2.0
Mother's Leather Conditioner
Meg's Plast X
Mother's Gold Carnauba
Mother's Claybar System
Stoner's with Rain Repellant

also considering some 303 Protectant with my next purchase. Stuff is so expensive up here though. I saw the 303 for $27 for 16 oz the other day. It's half the price at AG!
 
embolism said:
Doesn't the Griots come with a 6" backing plate? I'd rather use 5.5" pads so wonder if anyone will sell a 5" bp instead. Do you know if scratch x 2.0 has a lot of silicone in it? I think I read somewhere that it is not considered body shop safe. If that's the case then I'll probably go with Meg's UC and Swirl X or the Wolfgang twins.
Click to expand...

Yes the GG DA comes with a 6" backing plate. I use that with lake country purple wool and just bought a 5" backing plate. I think the scratch x 2.0 is to aggressive for a finish polish, so i would get the original 1.0 if you can find it or the swirl x or color x which are all otc. the m205 is a good price, but imo m105 is a bit overpriced not to mention all the dusting it does.
 
embolism said:
Doesn't the Griots come with a 6" backing plate? I'd rather use 5.5" pads so wonder if anyone will sell a 5" bp instead. Do you know if scratch x 2.0 has a lot of silicone in it? I think I read somewhere that it is not considered body shop safe. If that's the case then I'll probably go with Meg's UC and Swirl X or the Wolfgang twins.

Here's my limited arsenal so far:

Klasse twins
Collinite 845
Scratch X 2.0
Mother's Leather Conditioner
Meg's Plast X
Mother's Gold Carnauba
Mother's Claybar System
Stoner's with Rain Repellant

also considering some 303 Protectant with my next purchase. Stuff is so expensive up here though. I saw the 303 for $27 for 16 oz the other day. It's half the price at AG!
Click to expand...

You have a great collection going so far. Nothing wrong with any of those products. 303 is very nice too :props:

Yes, Griots comes with a 6" BP. You will need to order a 5" BP to accept 5.5 pads. Not a big deal really. There like $12

As for the polish. Get Megs 105 & 205 and be done with it. There very safe to use. I've never understood why ppl were so afraid of them (105 inparticular)

weavers said:
Yes the GG DA comes with a 6" backing plate. I use that with lake country purple wool and just bought a 5" backing plate. I think the scratch x 2.0 is to aggressive for a finish polish, so i would get the original 1.0 if you can find it or the swirl x or color x which are all otc. the m205 is a good price, but imo m105 is a bit overpriced not to mention all the dusting it does.
Click to expand...

As long as I'm getting the results I'm trying to achieve. A little dust is worth the price of admission :buffing:
 
Isn't Megs 105 too much for softer clearcoats?

I must admit that part of the reason I wanted to do stuff by hand is b/c I'm afraid of ruining my paint (the recent post by dude who burned through his clearcoat does not help). May be a dumb question but pretend we're in science class or something:

Assuming fair technique and use of only a DA and Megs UC compounding & Swirl X polishing, how long will it take before the clearcoat on a Lexus IS 350 is gone?

if you couldn't guess from my first post and the question above, I like to keep my cars a long time so enquiring minds want to know. Hopefully there's someone out there with a gauge and a long time customer who has been gradually tracking the thickness of their paint during the lifecycle of their car.
 
embolism said:
Isn't Megs 105 too much for softer clearcoats?

I must admit that part of the reason I wanted to do stuff by hand is b/c I'm afraid of ruining my paint (the recent post by dude who burned through his clearcoat does not help). May be a dumb question but pretend we're in science class or something:

Assuming fair technique and use of only a DA and Megs UC compounding & Swirl X polishing, how long will it take before the clearcoat on a Lexus IS 350 is gone?

if you couldn't guess from my first post and the question above, I like to keep my cars a long time so enquiring minds want to know. Hopefully there's someone out there with a gauge and a long time customer who has been gradually tracking the thickness of their paint during the lifecycle of their car.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of variables to your question about how long it will take before you go through the clear on your Lexus. Has the car ever been polished before? Wet sanded? Any ares been repainted? All of this factors into that. Typically a DA and say Megs UC it will take you a very long time to burn through with a DA. They are fairly safe machines. But again, the above factors into that. Also, on a plastic bumper it may burn through faster than on a metal hood. I've corrected paint on a few different cars and never had any issues with burning through the paint and most of the time I was using M105 and a yellow CCS flat pad.

Megs 105 is a good polish and if you use it with the correct pad for your paint, you can get a great almost finish like appearance just from the 105.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
If you really want to work by hand I'd get one of these: Wolfgang Polishin’ Pal is an ergonomically shaped urethane handle that holds specially designed foam pads using hooks & loops. or these Meguiars Unigrit Professional Hand Pad, hand backup pad, hand polishing pad

You may not get too far with swirl removal without a machine, but it'll be a lot shinier!



Yeah, well...to the OP's comment about being addictive...once upon a time I decided to "just do it"...now I'm up to 6 machines...
Click to expand...


haha I have the polishing pal in my cart already, along with the Griots DA, Megs 105, 205, 5" backing plate, 5.5" LCS orange pads, white pads, 303... I've almost doubled my current inventory of products already arrrgh!

wait, that's not true, I forgot to add DP Wheel Glaze and Tropicare Tire dressing to my arsenal list... so it's not quite doubled.... yet...

:help:
 
embolism said:
Isn't Megs 105 too much for softer clearcoats?

No Way....Your Lexus clear will love 105....and so will you

I must admit that part of the reason I wanted to do stuff by hand is b/c I'm afraid of ruining my paint (the recent post by dude who burned through his clearcoat does not help). May be a dumb question but pretend we're in science class or something:

I understand your concern, but honestly you would have to be a complete moron to burn through Lexus clear with a DA

Assuming fair technique and use of only a DA and Megs UC compounding & Swirl X polishing, how long will it take before the clearcoat on a Lexus IS 350 is gone?

About 15 years after you sell your car

if you couldn't guess from my first post and the question above, I like to keep my cars a long time so enquiring minds want to know. Hopefully there's someone out there with a gauge and a long time customer who has been gradually tracking the thickness of their paint during the lifecycle of their car.
Click to expand...

My DD is 17 years old and still looks fantastic. You won't be needing that guage as long as your sure no ones been painting on your car/wrecked
 
ok just found this here:

How do you determine clearcoat thickness with PTG? - Detailing Bliss Forum

Automotive paint systems are comprised of up to five different layers of paint. The system typically consists of:

A galvanized steel substrate with a thin crystalline tri-cation phosphate treatment to enhance adhesion and improve corrosion protection;
An E-coat is then added which is the first protective layer. This is electrodeposited and then cured

Lower panels have an anti chip layer, which is a thick layer designed to give protection against impact from stones

This is then followed by a primer (2.0 Mils) and a basecoat (1 – 2.0 Mils) layer, which is the colour layer

And finally polyurethane clear coats 2 – 3.0 Mils. The clear coat provides protection from a hostile environment and an excellent brilliance, but is easily scratched; once it is compromised repairs involve re-painting, as the base colour has no brilliance, shine or depth, start with the least abrasive product to accomplish desired results, and only if necessary move up to the next grade of abrasive.

Most factory paint jobs range from 3.5 to 5.5 mils (87 to 137 microns) (this will vary between manufacturers) for this reason, it’s also recommended that paint be measured when buffing since you can’t see how much paint is being removed during the buffing process. If an insufficient thickness of clear remains after polishing premature failures such as fading or delamination may occur as the colour coat won't be protected from ultra violet (UV) radiation and a warranty issue may develop in the future. Such risks can be alleviated by monitoring and minimizing the amount of top coat removed, which is best done through quick and easy measurements with an electronic paint gauge, and maintaining a record on a paint thickness template.

German and Japanese cars: 4-5 Mils (1 Mil=1000th of an inch)
With the exception of:
Lexus-White and Tan: 5-7 Mils, Lexus- Black and Silver: 4.5-6 Mils
BMW: Silver: 6-7 Mils
FORD: Approx. 5.5-7 Mils
GM Cars and Trucks: Approx. 4.5-6.0 Mils, Jimmy’s and Blazers: approx 7 Mils
Chrysler: Approx. 5.5-7 Mils (Note Sebring hoods are fibreglass)
Dodge Cars: Similar to Chrysler
Dodge Trucks and newer Ram Pick-ups: Cab approx. Mils and the boxes approx 9 Mils
Jaguar: approx. 6-7.5 Mils (but they tend to vary)
Jeep Grand Cherokee: These read approx. 6-8 Mils, Wranglers: approx. 4.5-5.5 Mils

Note- the above are provided for information only


This post was from 2008. The 87-137 microns quoted as the thickness of most factory paint is consistent with Dr. Buff's statement that from 2005-2011, paint thicknesses ranged btw 90-130 microns. Let's be conservative and say that a clear coat is on the lower end of the range from the article (2 mils). Assuming you have 5.5 mils or 137 microns total, then you have about 50 microns of clear before you get into the basecoat.

Has anyone with a paint gauge measured their paint before and after compounding and polishing? How many microns are lost with a "normal" detail?
 
If your thinking about getting a DA. What are you waiting for?!?!

Couple months ago, I was same boat as you. I did everything with hand and now I have a DA and found detailing cars a lot more easier and faster.

Are you going be buying a PTG?
 
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