Recommendations?

embolism said:
Isn't Megs 105 too much for softer clearcoats?

I must admit that part of the reason I wanted to do stuff by hand is b/c I'm afraid of ruining my paint (the recent post by dude who burned through his clearcoat does not help). May be a dumb question but pretend we're in science class or something:

Assuming fair technique and use of only a DA and Megs UC compounding & Swirl X polishing, how long will it take before the clearcoat on a Lexus IS 350 is gone?

if you couldn't guess from my first post and the question above, I like to keep my cars a long time so enquiring minds want to know. Hopefully there's someone out there with a gauge and a long time customer who has been gradually tracking the thickness of their paint during the lifecycle of their car.
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I've used M105 on a brand new Acura MDX (Acura also has a softer clear coat, from what I read) both by hand and with a DA without any problems.
 
slickooz said:
If your thinking about getting a DA. What are you waiting for?!?!

Couple months ago, I was same boat as you. I did everything with hand and now I have a DA and found detailing cars a lot more easier and faster.

Are you going be buying a PTG?
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If I had that kind of money, I'd just buy the DA and maybe a new car if I managed to ruin my paint! Just looking for some empirical evidence of how much the thin paints on today's cars can take wrt compounding and polishing. I used to be a science guy so am AR that way. Not really looking for hard numbers (too many variables to consider) but just something that will tell me I can do the car once or twice a year for X number of years with no issue.
 
embolism said:
If I had that kind of money, I'd just buy the DA and maybe a new car if I managed to ruin my paint! Just looking for some empirical evidence of how much the thin paints on today's cars can take wrt compounding and polishing. I used to be a science guy so am AR that way. Not really looking for hard numbers (too many variables to consider) but just something that will tell me I can do the car once or twice a year for X number of years with no issue.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone would be able to give you a definite answer without a paint thickness gauge.
 
Ok found more info:
___________________

Clear Coat Thickness

Modern clear coat paint finishes are so good today that they lull people into thinking that vehicle paint has protection and shine when in reality there is not really much there, other than the clear coat that has a thickness of 1.5 – 2.0 Mils. 1 mil = 0 .001", 1000th of an inch or 25.4 µ. As a point of reference a sheet of copy paper is 3.5Mil (89 µ) One micron is roughly 1/80th of the thickness of a human hair (hair thickness depends on hair colour/ethnic origin etc)

Most vehicle paint film systems (127 - 178 µ) comprise a Primer coat of 2Mils (50 µ) a Colour coat of 1-2Mils (25 -50 µ) and Clear coat 2-3Mils (50 - 75 µ). Removing more that 0.5 mil (12µ) of clear coat will cause premature paint film failure as UV protection percolates to the top of the clear coat; there is UV protection all the way through the paint, but the majority of it rises to the top with the thinner solvents and particles.
___________________

So we basically have 12 microns of clearcoat to play with safely then you get into clearcoat that has less UV protectants in it according to the article. Doesn't really say how long it would take for paint failure though, just that it would be premature (i.e. if it's 15 years instead of 20 would it matter to most of us?)

Here's some more info that almost answers my earlier questions:

___________________

Without the laser pointer/ tripod trick the guys at OFFYOURMARKS use, its almost impossible to tell exactly how much clear was removed as clear thickness varies so much. Readings a few inches apart could be different. I routinely remove 1-2 microns during a two stage/ three stage polish that doesn't have a lot of deep RDS. That is with orange/green pads and SIP or Power finish/106FF or 85RD.

Using a moderate to light polish; and utilizing a rotary polisher will remove approximately 0.023 Mil (.6µ Microns) from the paint surface (they are many variables such as polish/compound and speed / pressure used that may affect the paint removed) There comes a point when you must judge wither removing a scratch will compromise the clear coat and if so you’ll have to ‘live’ with the imperfection.

___________________

These guys were also talking about putting together a PTG database for cars by year, make and model but I couldn't find it.

This humble researcher therefore concludes that for his given set of parameters:

1. a car that is 2005 or later
2. a softer clearcoat (no ceramic nanomumbojumbo)
3. in the absence of a PTG to take true readings, about 12 microns of clearcoat to play with safely and assuming 1 micron removed per detailing session

I can polish my car once a year for 12 years, wherein I will then be into the remaining 38 microns of clear and flirting with premature clear coat failure but by then I won't care that much anyways...

woo hoo time to go shopping!
 
embolism said:
Ok found more info:
___________________

Clear Coat Thickness

Modern clear coat paint finishes are so good today that they lull people into thinking that vehicle paint has protection and shine when in reality there is not really much there, other than the clear coat that has a thickness of 1.5 – 2.0 Mils. 1 mil = 0 .001", 1000th of an inch or 25.4 µ. As a point of reference a sheet of copy paper is 3.5Mil (89 µ) One micron is roughly 1/80th of the thickness of a human hair (hair thickness depends on hair colour/ethnic origin etc)

Most vehicle paint film systems (127 - 178 µ) comprise a Primer coat of 2Mils (50 µ) a Colour coat of 1-2Mils (25 -50 µ) and Clear coat 2-3Mils (50 - 75 µ). Removing more that 0.5 mil (12µ) of clear coat will cause premature paint film failure as UV protection percolates to the top of the clear coat; there is UV protection all the way through the paint, but the majority of it rises to the top with the thinner solvents and particles.
___________________

So we basically have 12 microns of clearcoat to play with safely then you get into clearcoat that has less UV protectants in it according to the article. Doesn't really say how long it would take for paint failure though, just that it would be premature (i.e. if it's 15 years instead of 20 would it matter to most of us?)

Here's some more info that almost answers my earlier questions:

___________________

Without the laser pointer/ tripod trick the guys at OFFYOURMARKS use, its almost impossible to tell exactly how much clear was removed as clear thickness varies so much. Readings a few inches apart could be different. I routinely remove 1-2 microns during a two stage/ three stage polish that doesn't have a lot of deep RDS. That is with orange/green pads and SIP or Power finish/106FF or 85RD.

Using a moderate to light polish; and utilizing a rotary polisher will remove approximately 0.023 Mil (.6µ Microns) from the paint surface (they are many variables such as polish/compound and speed / pressure used that may affect the paint removed) There comes a point when you must judge wither removing a scratch will compromise the clear coat and if so you’ll have to ‘live’ with the imperfection.

___________________

These guys were also talking about putting together a PTG database for cars by year, make and model but I couldn't find it.

This humble researcher therefore concludes that for his given set of parameters:

1. a car that is 2005 or later
2. a softer clearcoat (no ceramic nanomumbojumbo)
3. in the absence of a PTG to take true readings, about 12 microns of clearcoat to play with safely and assuming 1 micron removed per detailing session

I can polish my car once a year for 12 years, wherein I will then be into the remaining 38 microns of clear and flirting with premature clear coat failure but by then I won't care that much anyways...

woo hoo time to go shopping!
Click to expand...

Get a DA, Pads, 105/205 and 85rd and enjoy yourself ;)
 
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