Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griots ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
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Matt S.
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
Scroll down to post 5 here - http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ding-tools-tips-techniques-mike-phillips.html
Notice how all the edges / high points are taped off...these areas tend to have thinner paint and can be subject to higher levels of pressure when sanding, so it's best to avoid them / mask them off.
Scroll down to post 5 here - http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ding-tools-tips-techniques-mike-phillips.html
Notice how all the edges / high points are taped off...these areas tend to have thinner paint and can be subject to higher levels of pressure when sanding, so it's best to avoid them / mask them off.
Mike Phillips
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
You hand compound and polish close to hard or sharp edges. It's called perfectionist detailing.
If it's your own time then you can pour your heart and soul into it. If you're sanding and buffing on someone else's car make sure they're willing to pay for perfectionist detailing because it's also time consuming.
You hand compound and polish close to hard or sharp edges. It's called perfectionist detailing.
If it's your own time then you can pour your heart and soul into it. If you're sanding and buffing on someone else's car make sure they're willing to pay for perfectionist detailing because it's also time consuming.
-Longhorn-
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
Absolutely amazing write up. Hands down best I have ever read from Mike. Bravo.
Absolutely amazing write up. Hands down best I have ever read from Mike. Bravo.
Mike Phillips
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
Thanks, it was really a complicated project to document and then write-up...
Of course in the normal world, most people doing any type of wetsanding would use a rotary buffer with wool pad and an aggressive compound to remove their sanding marks.
I simply demonstrated what could be done using tools a lot of people already own.
Thanks, it was really a complicated project to document and then write-up...
Of course in the normal world, most people doing any type of wetsanding would use a rotary buffer with wool pad and an aggressive compound to remove their sanding marks.
I simply demonstrated what could be done using tools a lot of people already own.
55resto
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
Mike , This is THE best article I have ever read !
You tell how...you tell what product ... what tool ... everything to steer a guy in the right direction.
This is almost as good as being in school ... your school . If I had seen this information a few years ago, it would have saved me hundreds of hours and dollars .
Thank you !
Mike , This is THE best article I have ever read !
You tell how...you tell what product ... what tool ... everything to steer a guy in the right direction.
This is almost as good as being in school ... your school . If I had seen this information a few years ago, it would have saved me hundreds of hours and dollars .
Thank you !
Mike Phillips
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
Thank you. I try to write all my articles so a person can read through them and then go out into their garage and duplicate the techniques and procedures to their own car and be successful.
Thank you. I try to write all my articles so a person can read through them and then go out into their garage and duplicate the techniques and procedures to their own car and be successful.
StuDLei
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
This wouldn't be considered rocket science either, but what's your opinion here Mike:
I see that you removed about .1 mils of paint in your swirl remover step with a yellow pad. Would it be fair to say that 105 and an orange pad would remove about the same amount of paint?
If you do in fact remove about .1 mils of paint in a compounding process, and you can safely remove .5 mils, would it be fair to say as a rough estimate that you could 105/205 your car about five times in its life?
Everyone always wants to know how many times you can buff your car before you should start worrying, at least newbies like myself, so I wondered what your thoughts were on this?
Thanks.
This wouldn't be considered rocket science either, but what's your opinion here Mike:
I see that you removed about .1 mils of paint in your swirl remover step with a yellow pad. Would it be fair to say that 105 and an orange pad would remove about the same amount of paint?
If you do in fact remove about .1 mils of paint in a compounding process, and you can safely remove .5 mils, would it be fair to say as a rough estimate that you could 105/205 your car about five times in its life?
Everyone always wants to know how many times you can buff your car before you should start worrying, at least newbies like myself, so I wondered what your thoughts were on this?
Thanks.
Countersteer46
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
A couple people have already said it, this is the best article on AG in my opinion!
This one is a close second:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...w-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html
A couple questions, if I could. First, I don't believe I've come across in these articles a recommendation for pressure or force for wet sanding. I was wondering how much force you would use on the pad? Also, would it change for different grits?
Secondly, as mentioned by Mike, these results are amazing for a yellow foam pad and a Swirl Remover. If I were to also be wet sanding factory paint that would be finished with 3000 grit, then compounded with a rotary, wool pad and 3M perfect it 06085, could I try to switch to a DA on the second correction step? Thanks for the info!
A couple people have already said it, this is the best article on AG in my opinion!
This one is a close second:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...w-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html
A couple questions, if I could. First, I don't believe I've come across in these articles a recommendation for pressure or force for wet sanding. I was wondering how much force you would use on the pad? Also, would it change for different grits?
Secondly, as mentioned by Mike, these results are amazing for a yellow foam pad and a Swirl Remover. If I were to also be wet sanding factory paint that would be finished with 3000 grit, then compounded with a rotary, wool pad and 3M perfect it 06085, could I try to switch to a DA on the second correction step? Thanks for the info!
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
I know it can be confusing to know what category an abrasive product falls into because there is no industry standard for labeling products. That said,
M105 is an aggressive compound. By this I mean it has the ability and potential to remove a lot of paint quickly even though "yes" I know it's SMAT and feels like Jergen's hand lotion.
Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover on the other hand is a Medium Cut Polish. It's not near as aggressive as ANY aggressive compound nor does it have the same potential for removing paint.
So I believe M105 with a orange foam cutting pad actually has a greater ability and potential to remove more paint or film-build than I did with Total Swirl Remover.
Keep in mind... Top Coat Hardness is an Unknown Variable and a huge factor when discussing the abrading of paint in any fashion.
The paint I'm working on and the paint you're working on can be very different in their hardness factor and that makes comparisons more difficult.
Good generalization. Of course this assumes you're working on a car that no one else has ever abraded, including the dealership before you took possession of the car.
So many variables... that's why I try to not get to caught up into the minutia of detailing and always focus on the most important aspects like,
"Use the least aggressive products to get the job done"
After you've restored a car's finish, start doing the things you can do to avoid re-inflicting swirls and scratches back into the paint so you don't have to continually compound or use medium cut compounds.
Sorry I just now found this post and replied to it... see the last paragraph I wrote above...
I know it can be confusing to know what category an abrasive product falls into because there is no industry standard for labeling products. That said,
M105 is an aggressive compound. By this I mean it has the ability and potential to remove a lot of paint quickly even though "yes" I know it's SMAT and feels like Jergen's hand lotion.
Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover on the other hand is a Medium Cut Polish. It's not near as aggressive as ANY aggressive compound nor does it have the same potential for removing paint.
So I believe M105 with a orange foam cutting pad actually has a greater ability and potential to remove more paint or film-build than I did with Total Swirl Remover.
Keep in mind... Top Coat Hardness is an Unknown Variable and a huge factor when discussing the abrading of paint in any fashion.
The paint I'm working on and the paint you're working on can be very different in their hardness factor and that makes comparisons more difficult.
Good generalization. Of course this assumes you're working on a car that no one else has ever abraded, including the dealership before you took possession of the car.
So many variables... that's why I try to not get to caught up into the minutia of detailing and always focus on the most important aspects like,
"Use the least aggressive products to get the job done"
After you've restored a car's finish, start doing the things you can do to avoid re-inflicting swirls and scratches back into the paint so you don't have to continually compound or use medium cut compounds.
Sorry I just now found this post and replied to it... see the last paragraph I wrote above...
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
Thank you...
Good question...
First, be sure to read through this article on the basics of hand sanding...
Basic Hand Sanding Techniques
Second, as far as pressure goes, you actually want to use light but even pressure over the distance of your arm stroke, whether it's a long or short stroke.
A quality paper like the Nikken cuts fast with light pressure because of the design of the abrasives on the paper and leaves a VERY uniform sanding mark pattern.
I tend to avoid sanding with other papers when hand sanding but the same thing would apply.
Heavy pressure will remove paint faster and you can certainly use heavy pressure if you are VERY confident of how thick the paint is you're sanding but be careful as with heavy pressure you can instill deep Tracers and these are a real paint to remove and increase the risk of removing too much paint.
Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring
This is why I also try to always machine sand everything I can...
Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips
You should be able to switch to a DA easily after the first rotary buffer step as long as you're using a quality compound for the first step.
If you do this type of work right, the only thing left in the paint after the first step are the swirls caused by the fibers from the wool pad and any compounding abrasives...
Both should be low swirl or more accurately, SHALLOW swirl that is easily buffed out with a DA polisher.
Great questions...
Check out this write-up, we compounded and then used a jeweling polish to finish out I believe...
1965 Mustang GT Fastback - Wetsanding - Live Broadcast
Thank you...
Good question...
First, be sure to read through this article on the basics of hand sanding...
Basic Hand Sanding Techniques
Second, as far as pressure goes, you actually want to use light but even pressure over the distance of your arm stroke, whether it's a long or short stroke.
A quality paper like the Nikken cuts fast with light pressure because of the design of the abrasives on the paper and leaves a VERY uniform sanding mark pattern.
I tend to avoid sanding with other papers when hand sanding but the same thing would apply.
Heavy pressure will remove paint faster and you can certainly use heavy pressure if you are VERY confident of how thick the paint is you're sanding but be careful as with heavy pressure you can instill deep Tracers and these are a real paint to remove and increase the risk of removing too much paint.
Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring
This is why I also try to always machine sand everything I can...
Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips
You should be able to switch to a DA easily after the first rotary buffer step as long as you're using a quality compound for the first step.
If you do this type of work right, the only thing left in the paint after the first step are the swirls caused by the fibers from the wool pad and any compounding abrasives...
Both should be low swirl or more accurately, SHALLOW swirl that is easily buffed out with a DA polisher.
Great questions...
Check out this write-up, we compounded and then used a jeweling polish to finish out I believe...
1965 Mustang GT Fastback - Wetsanding - Live Broadcast
StuDLei
New member
- May 28, 2012
- 330
- 0
Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
Mike, I stopped visiting these forums around the time I wrote that post. I've been back here for a few days now ('tis the season for detailing) and happened to see that you replied to this. I was shocked when I read the date. Perfect timing!
I got my paint back to flawless (as possible) last fall and I've tried to keep it that way as best I could. I'm still learning. There were a few times I ONR'ed my car when I should've washed it with a pressure washer first. Also, I've come to the realization that anytime it rains, you pretty much have to wash your car quickly because water spots are imminent. I have water spots all over the car. They're very faint, but they don't wash off. Yesterday I went over a spot, a test spot, with SF4500 and a black pad with my Flex and it took them out. Now, when I get the chance I know I can hit my whole car and get it back to perfect while taking off hardly any clear coat paint.
Any suggestions for Flex guys that need to hit small areas? I really wish I could buy a 3 inch or less backing plate for it, but they don't make one right? I polished the A pillars and other areas with my 6.5 inch pads but it was less than fun. Is it easy enough to do these areas by hand? Any suggestions here?
Thanks for all your help again. You truly are an awesome individual.
I know it can be confusing to know what category an abrasive product falls into because there is no industry standard for labeling products. That said,
M105 is an aggressive compound. By this I mean it has the ability and potential to remove a lot of paint quickly even though "yes" I know it's SMAT and feels like Jergen's hand lotion.
Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover on the other hand is a Medium Cut Polish. It's not near as aggressive as ANY aggressive compound nor does it have the same potential for removing paint.
So I believe M105 with a orange foam cutting pad actually has a greater ability and potential to remove more paint or film-build than I did with Total Swirl Remover.
Keep in mind... Top Coat Hardness is an Unknown Variable and a huge factor when discussing the abrading of paint in any fashion.
The paint I'm working on and the paint you're working on can be very different in their hardness factor and that makes comparisons more difficult.
Good generalization. Of course this assumes you're working on a car that no one else has ever abraded, including the dealership before you took possession of the car.
So many variables... that's why I try to not get to caught up into the minutia of detailing and always focus on the most important aspects like,
"Use the least aggressive products to get the job done"
After you've restored a car's finish, start doing the things you can do to avoid re-inflicting swirls and scratches back into the paint so you don't have to continually compound or use medium cut compounds.
Sorry I just now found this post and replied to it... see the last paragraph I wrote above...
Mike, I stopped visiting these forums around the time I wrote that post. I've been back here for a few days now ('tis the season for detailing) and happened to see that you replied to this. I was shocked when I read the date. Perfect timing!
I got my paint back to flawless (as possible) last fall and I've tried to keep it that way as best I could. I'm still learning. There were a few times I ONR'ed my car when I should've washed it with a pressure washer first. Also, I've come to the realization that anytime it rains, you pretty much have to wash your car quickly because water spots are imminent. I have water spots all over the car. They're very faint, but they don't wash off. Yesterday I went over a spot, a test spot, with SF4500 and a black pad with my Flex and it took them out. Now, when I get the chance I know I can hit my whole car and get it back to perfect while taking off hardly any clear coat paint.
Any suggestions for Flex guys that need to hit small areas? I really wish I could buy a 3 inch or less backing plate for it, but they don't make one right? I polished the A pillars and other areas with my 6.5 inch pads but it was less than fun. Is it easy enough to do these areas by hand? Any suggestions here?
Thanks for all your help again. You truly are an awesome individual.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
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- Thread starter
- #54
Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
Agreed and the more flawless the condition of the paint the more even the slightest little defect will show up.
Since we did the extreme makeover on my own truck, I've been very good and wiping the truck down every day and sometimes every other day, using some type of spray detailer or spray wax. The results is my truck's paint always looks great, as though it was just waxed. Article on this topic coming soon...
A-pillars are in all most all cases best done by hand. Kind of depends though how wide the painted portion is and what's on the side of the paint. Some cars have plastic, vinyl or rubber trim/gaskets right next to the paint and if you creme these over with polish they can stain white.
I'm am the number #1 proponent of the 4" Lake Country Backing Plate and the 5" Hybrid Pads for use with the Flex 3401.
New 5" pads for 4" Backing Plate on Flex 3401
5" Hybrid Pads for the 4" backing plate on the Flex 3401!
I ALWAYS have half the Flex 3401's in the studio set up like above and the other half set-up with the factory 5.5" backing plates for 6.5" p-ds.
Good combo for sure...
Agreed and the more flawless the condition of the paint the more even the slightest little defect will show up.
Since we did the extreme makeover on my own truck, I've been very good and wiping the truck down every day and sometimes every other day, using some type of spray detailer or spray wax. The results is my truck's paint always looks great, as though it was just waxed. Article on this topic coming soon...
A-pillars are in all most all cases best done by hand. Kind of depends though how wide the painted portion is and what's on the side of the paint. Some cars have plastic, vinyl or rubber trim/gaskets right next to the paint and if you creme these over with polish they can stain white.
I'm am the number #1 proponent of the 4" Lake Country Backing Plate and the 5" Hybrid Pads for use with the Flex 3401.
New 5" pads for 4" Backing Plate on Flex 3401
5" Hybrid Pads for the 4" backing plate on the Flex 3401!
I ALWAYS have half the Flex 3401's in the studio set up like above and the other half set-up with the factory 5.5" backing plates for 6.5" p-ds.
Good combo for sure...
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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- #56
Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins
No problemo...
That's probably a lot of printing...
No problemo...
That's probably a lot of printing...
Mike Phillips
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:bump:
Shared here,
Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction
AFTER - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible
Super thin paint
Shared here,
Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction
AFTER - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible
Super thin paint
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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:bump:
Shared here...
Learn to machine sand TODAY! LIVE Detailing Class at 3:00pm Eastern Time
:buffing:
Shared here...
Learn to machine sand TODAY! LIVE Detailing Class at 3:00pm Eastern Time
:buffing: