Review: Griot's Garage Boss 21 Long Throw Polisher - Comparison To Rupes 21ES

Djmagnum said:
Gentleman, I would like to challenge the power ratings on the griots garage 21 boss. This is just my 2 cents, but both machines weigh 6.2 pounds correct?



The materials used are almost identical, plastic housing, rubber cord, gear head etc.



If the griots garage claims they have 40% more power, where is the extra weight from the motor? You need an increase of iron in the stator, and bigger magnets. Which we all know isn't light, and the motor would have to weigh closer to 40% more to have that figure be accurate.



I'm not sure if I can post links from other pages on here, but here is some information I found:



To speak to the "wattage" of a motor is a misnomer...

The wattage is USALLY set by the controller that runs the motor..

(i.e. This is no difference between a 500w and a 1000w "motor", it's the controller that provides more power (amps) and is the controlling factor..) the more power you feed, the more heat builds up.



And also I noticed in the 2 YouTube videos that compared the griots vs the Rupes on the 15 pound weight test (load test) the griots slowed down, while the Rupes didn't slow its rotation.



Also, when you start the griots it doesn't have the "smart start" the Rupes has. Doing research, this is called a DOL controller. The most basic controller for motors.



The Rupes however has a reduced voltage starter, softer starts.

It also has an intelligent controller, meaning it adjust the input current to the load. Ie when you push down on the pad (increasing the load) it puts in more current (power) to maintain the speed of the polisher. And also when you lighten up on the pad, it doesn't spin faster and faster (because of less load) it maintains the same speed, reduces voltage which in turn reduces motor heat, run under light load for a large part of the time, resulting In also less noise, and vibrations generated by the motor.



I'm not sure about this, but when seeing mechanical resistance graphs correlated to the load, (in this case pressure on the pad, weight) motors show up to 1.5 to 3 times the average current needed to operate at the same rpms due to the heavier load the motor is operating under. Again I'm not sure, but if Rupes can maintain its speed on level 5 or 6, and the griots bogs down, which is really more powerful?



Power specs aren't really helpful, it's all about the type of controller used that feeds the motor. And seeing there is no weight difference in the 2, I would say if the griots did indeed have a bigger motor, it would heat up faster, resulting in insulation damage of the motor faster, since it also doesn't have smart controllers and just basic made in China DOLs, it cannot keep that power under heavier loads like the Rupes can, and would waste power on lighter loads and have more heat.



This is a lot to take in, but after some research I would definitely take the Rupes over the boss 21. Especially if they are the same price, Italian craftsmanship made by hand it's a no brainier.



Thoughts?
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Most people won't do this type of research. These sound like the type of subtleties and refinements one will see between innovation and a copy. Lolz. It's like when someone says their wax contains "40% more carnauba"...

The reality is, one tool is made by a company that has the experience and the facilities to engineer and manufacturer their own tools - the other doesn't.

I'm sure the Boss machines works fine. I don't think their past polishers have been known for their reliability - so time will tell if this is any different. It's not uncommon for people to post they have been through 3 or 4 of them.....

The 3" one is often referred to as a "toy". Bigger motors and orbits create more stress - I think Rupes have pretty much proved the reliability of their machines.

It just strikes me as ludicrous when people try to claim this Boss machine is not a copy.
 
A quick question. Given your thesis that the Boss is a copy, why hasn't Rupes as a company filed patents for the design of the large throw polishers. And if they did wouldn't they pursue intellectual property litigation. I really can't figure it out why they haven't filed it which then means that the design isn't patentable or the Boss isn't a copy due to its design differences and making "copies" is perfectly legal. Any thoughts on this.
 
I had the rupes 21, now I have the g21. It's not a copy, its totally different how u handle it and how it feels in your hand. I'm getting sick of hearing the copy excuse. There are hundreds of thing if not thousands that u could say are copy's. If company's didn't try to take a good design and improve on it, we wouldn't have the technology we have now.
 
swanicyouth said:
Most people won't do this type of research. These sound like the type of subtleties and refinements one will see between innovation and a copy. Lolz. It's like when someone says their wax contains "40% more carnauba"...

The reality is, one tool is made by a company that has the experience and the facilities to engineer and manufacturer their own tools - the other doesn't.

I'm sure the Boss machines works fine. I don't think their past polishers have been known for their reliability - so time will tell if this is any different. It's not uncommon for people to post they have been through 3 or 4 of them.....

The 3" one is often referred to as a "toy". Bigger motors and orbits create more stress - I think Rupes have pretty much proved the reliability of their machines.

It just strikes me as ludicrous when people try to claim this Boss machine is not a copy.
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So if a company has a outside vendor make their product, it nullifies it's performance?.............. who makes Rupes polishes genius............. Griots makes their own in the USA(Indiana).

On another note there does not seem to be glowing reviews on the other "Copy" large throw machines.................why is that?.

Do not know how YOU know the Boss machine works fine as YOU have not used it. Leave that to qualified personnel.
 
To me, a "copy" is when a polisher looks exactly the same as the original item. As an example, the EVO21 polisher is what I would consider a copy. Not the Griot's Garage BOSS. Yes it uses the same 21mm throw but the polisher itself looks and feels different. The motor, bearings, housing, backing plate, etc are all different. They clearly designed this with ergonomics and comfort in mind. A company can use the same idea of a competitor but they can improve other aspects of the said product. I wouldn't call that a copy.

With that being said, it's not fair to say that GG copied the Rupes. Yes, they got the idea of the 21mm throw from Rupes but someone pointed out that the Dynabrade attachment was the original originator of the longer throw DA. So based on what you're saying, doesn't that make Rupes a copy of the dynabrade concept??

I don't know what the first automobile is but based on what you're saying, Toyota, Honda, BMW, or all the other brands copied the automobile too? This argument can be extended to a lot of things we have in our society right now. Cellphones, TVs, radios, etc...
 
Marc08EX said:
To me, a "copy" is when a polisher looks exactly the same as the original item. As an example, the EVO21 polisher is what I would consider a copy. Not the Griot's Garage BOSS. Yes it uses the same 21mm throw but the polisher itself looks and feels different. The motor, bearings, housing, backing plate, etc are all different. They clearly designed this with ergonomics and comfort in mind. A company can use the same idea of a competitor but they can improve other aspects of the said product. I wouldn't call that a copy.

With that being said, it's not fair to say that GG copied the Rupes. Yes, they got the idea of the 21mm throw from Rupes but someone pointed out that the Dynabrade attachment was the original originator of the longer throw DA. So based on what you're saying, doesn't that make Rupes a copy of the dynabrade concept??

I don't know what the first automobile is but based on what you're saying, Toyota, Honda, BMW, or all the other brands copied the automobile too? This argument can be extended to a lot of things we have in our society right now. Cellphones, TVs, radios, etc...
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How dare you interject common sense to a forum post Marc................
 
Djmagnum said:
To speak to the "wattage" of a motor is a misnomer...
The wattage is USALLY set by the controller that runs the motor..
(i.e. This is no difference between a 500w and a 1000w "motor", it's the controller that provides more power (amps) and is the controlling factor..) the more power you feed, the more heat builds up.
Click to expand...

Wow, there was a bunch of misinformation in there, but this stuff was the worst--no difference between a 500 and 1000W motor???

Besides ignoring a lot of differences in motor design, you are ignoring a lot of mechanical parts and friction etc. which contribute to the efficiency of the assembly, i.e. the difference between the power input and the output. To suggest that the Griot's machine can't have more power simply because the weight is the same, or that there is no difference between a 500W and 1000W motor is just nonsense.
 
No...

No copying going on here.

e40688ac8b0e974c2af678845b6ff809.jpg


47b28ad92606b09a19d2a02c4e88ede8.jpg


100% copy. Sorry.

You guys may like the machine. That's fine.
 
Power measurements can either be steady state or peak. Obviously, the peak current at startup would be a better one for claim if you are trying to brag about the motor. The same applies to horsepower ratings (everyone uses peak).

For industrial places, the peak is actually important when dealing with motors so the breaker does not trip if you turned a bunch on at the same time like when they come in in the morning and turn on power to the area.
 
swanicyouth said:
No...

No copying going on here.

100% copy. Sorry.

You guys may like the machine. That's fine.
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Yes... Maybe the counter weight was copied because it certainly looks the same. But the bearings and spindle are different.

I still think it's not fair to call the entire machine a copy just because some components are the same.

AFAIK, each of these counter weights are individually balanced. I think Griot's manufactures their own counter weights too. A direct copy would have been when they make a mold out of a single Rupes counter balance and produce the same unbalanced counter weight for all their machines. But the fact that they manufacture and balance each individual one says otherwise. Aesthetics and design of the counter balance - yes.

Let's go back to cars... Are you also saying that cars that use struts with the spring around it are copies of each other? What about cellphones? All of them use a microphone as part of their functionality. Are they all copying each other as well just because that component looks the same (although it could be from a different manufacturer)? What about keyboards? All of them uses the same keys! Are they not copies of each other now? The DP turbo dryer also uses a tip that looks like the Master Blaster. But I wouldn't call that a copy... The list goes on and on.

In the general market place, a successful product will get noticed by competitors and these competitors will try to make a variation of that product. It happens all the time. Yes, maybe a feature or two will be the same but the entire product was designed and built from the ground up. They wouldn't just put the successful product in a mold, create "copies" and slap their company name on it. (which is what the EVO21 polisher did) There is no patent for the 21mm throw polisher so you can't blame Griot's. They saw a good product and improved on it. They also have a loyal fan base and I'm sure they see a lot of potential revenue from them.
 
swanicyouth said:
No...

No copying going on here.

e40688ac8b0e974c2af678845b6ff809.jpg


47b28ad92606b09a19d2a02c4e88ede8.jpg


100% copy. Sorry.

You guys may like the machine. That's fine.
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So I guess every auto maker since the first automobile was built has been copying the original design and they all suck except the original? Seems pretty narrow minded to me.

Every car has wheels, brakes, suspension, motors and so on but yet they all offer a different driving experience, with polishers it's no different with the exception of the EVO 21 which is a distinct knock off and made cheaper and is a POS. The GG21 looks distinctly different and has better internals and ergonomics, it appears Griot's has simply built a better mouse trap.

I have a Rupes 21 and like it but if this machine is built better and cuts down on my correcting time then I will get one and have my Rupes as a back up.
 
I don't recall anyone who said that the GG21 is a copy of the Rupes and therefore is a POS. If you don't see it as a copy, then you just can't be reasoned with. I'm only typing this because I'm trying to kill time. I bet it's a fine machine, maybe even better than the original, but its still a copy, despite all of the differences. The 8mm throw design was copied over and over again of some original, however the design differences could pursuaid me to say some are not copies. I don't believe the GG21 is more different than it is the same comparing to the Rupes. It looks like a copy. How can you not see?
 
expdetailing said:
I don't recall anyone who said that the GG21 is a copy of the Rupes and therefore is a POS. If you don't see it as a copy, then you just can't be reasoned with. I'm only typing this because I'm trying to kill time. I bet it's a fine machine, maybe even better than the original, but its still a copy, despite all of the differences. The 8mm throw design was copied over and over again of some original, however the design differences could pursuaid me to say some are not copies. I don't believe the GG21 is more different than it is the same comparing to the Rupes. It looks like a copy. How can you not see?
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I guess if this is a copy


These are copies too then


 
expdetailing said:
I don't recall anyone who said that the GG21 is a copy of the Rupes and therefore is a POS. If you don't see it as a copy, then you just can't be reasoned with. I'm only typing this because I'm trying to kill time. I bet it's a fine machine, maybe even better than the original, but its still a copy, despite all of the differences. The 8mm throw design was copied over and over again of some original, however the design differences could pursuaid me to say some are not copies. I don't believe the GG21 is more different than it is the same comparing to the Rupes. It looks like a copy. How can you not see?
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The difference is the beating of the copy drum..................but only directed at the Griots offering.

As I asserted elsewhere to swanicyouth "Where is the outrage towards the Evo, Zentool etc........." this has been a unnatural bias and has been exposed as such. At first it was the made in China stuff(Merica first damn it!!!) yet the Rupes is not a American company and it's profits go to Italy.

Then as this silliness unfolded the admitting the problem really was the Griots not only copied the Rupes but the pricepoint was similar....................and had it been cheaper it would not have been a issue............really? so the ideologues posting would have bought the "Cheaper Griots" if this is not the definition of hypocrisy what else is.

I am starting to wonder if the detractors are not Griots guys in secret because with your code pink style of glossing over facts you send guys right to the purchase of the machine(Rupes is like SHUT UP).

I have the Griots 3" inch toy.......................yes it is underpowered, but they made this smaller machine first and the Rupes mini is a much better correcting machine(I have purchased two) but Rupes made their offering AFTER Griots did and the machines are similar but nobody would say it is a copy so who did Rupes get their inspiration from?? and of course the Dynabrade issue was brought up earlier by Marc. There is blatant bias here over truthful questions actually being brought up which sucks and is not needed.
 
Rasky, I'm not sure I understand your response. Was I supposed to see differences from the photographs? If it was, then all I can say is it still looks like a copy. Maybe this is similar to that recent picture of that dress that people could not agree on what color it was.
 
expdetailing said:
I don't recall anyone who said that the GG21 is a copy of the Rupes and therefore is a POS. If you don't see it as a copy, then you just can't be reasoned with. I'm only typing this because I'm trying to kill time. I bet it's a fine machine, maybe even better than the original, but its still a copy, despite all of the differences. The 8mm throw design was copied over and over again of some original, however the design differences could pursuaid me to say some are not copies. I don't believe the GG21 is more different than it is the same comparing to the Rupes. It looks like a copy. How can you not see?
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Really??? Read Swanicyouth's posts. Here and on Autopia Forums, he repeatedly slams Griot's for copying the machine. I totally understand being a fan of a particular machine or product but to ignore something that may be better is a closed minded way of thinking. Something no matter how great the design it can always be improved upon.

If you own a Rupes and do not ever see yourself buying anything else that's your right but don't knock a machine or product until you have put it to the test. The other companies machines that have directly copied the Rupes design to a T have not been slammed as they are much cheaper not just in price but in quality. The way I see it is all the haters are bitching are unhappy about the price of The GG21 and feel it should be priced lower. I bet if the price was $200.00 there wouldn't be as many haters but people will look for flaws no matter how well something is made and still ##### about it.
 
expdetailing said:
Rasky, I'm not sure I understand your response. Was I supposed to see differences from the photographs? If it was, then all I can say is it still looks like a copy. Maybe this is similar to that recent picture of that dress that people could not agree on what color it was.
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Apparently you proved Rasky's point...he was comparing the Rupes to the BOSS, Flex, and G300.
 
expdetailing said:
Rasky, I'm not sure I understand your response. Was I supposed to see differences from the photographs? If it was, then all I can say is it still looks like a copy. Maybe this is similar to that recent picture of that dress that people could not agree on what color it was.
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Are you serious?? I guess the dumbing down of America theory has truth to it.

If you cannot see the obvious differences between the machines in Chad's pics you need to go sit in the corner with your dunce cap on..
 
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